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The current property boom in Poland is a bubble


deeIrish 7 | 33
22 Aug 2007 #61
If I may be so rude as to repeat my question: what kind of rights do tenants have in Poland? Can a private landlord evict a tenant without any warning period?

In Ireland a renting tenant can be evicted for no reason with 4 weeks' notice. This is impossible in most of Europe, and helps to explain why Irish people hate to rent.

(I won't be insulted if nobody answers, I hope I haven't offended anyone by posting this again)
Ranj 21 | 948
22 Aug 2007 #62
In Ireland a renting tenant can be evicted for no reason with 4 weeks' notice

Is a signed contract not normally involved when renting?
deeIrish 7 | 33
22 Aug 2007 #63
Normally, there is no written document.

But even when there is, unless a specific lease period is specified, then the normal situation is that the renter can be evicted after 4 weeks.

Is this the same in Poland?

I understand this is also the position in the UK. Perhaps someone can confirm?
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510
22 Aug 2007 #64
you seem convinced that Polish real estate is in a very healthy position at present.

am sorry if I have mislead you, this is not what i am saying

i am just trying to counter the negitivity displayed by some by saying that there is still plenty of opportunities to be had with real estate in poland

my interest has never been in new builds - i rehab and turn older properties and dabble in bits n pieces - i am not a big time investor but i my ROI is sufficient to make it worthwhile for me and my partner... its not about making a fortune, its about living a lifestyle and i achieve my targets

i am only working in and around the tri city with more emphasis on 'around' as the opportunities are moving outwards - my research covers most of poland but only in a limited capacity, i wouldnt want to offer advice for anywhere other than the TC

the boom boom boom has passed by - now its time to work a little for your money

you can get an idea of poznan rentals at gumtree.com

what kind of rights do tenants have in Poland? Can a private landlord evict a tenant without any warning period?

ive PMed you my lawyers comments on my current situation
diamond - | 10
22 Aug 2007 #65
irish...that is the same as in the usa as well (which has a healthy market in general)....but in poland it is done with contracts generally (sometimes not for various reasons) for up to a year usually. i believe it's a similar situation to germany where one has three months notice (either way) before moving out, but don't quote me on that. my landlord and i haven't had a contact in awhile so can't check the details for you. someone on here must be renting on a contact in poland though.

deise....this might help to give some idea:

h t t p://w w w.apartament.net.pl/?s=3&mact=7&wynajem=1&szukam=mieszkania&cena=0

or

h t t p://w w w.laskowski.com.pl/roferta_lista.php3

(remove spaces)

look it up on google: "nieruchomosci poznan" and then mieszkanie > wynajem
some sites have english.

to answer your other question....everyone is trying to make a buck these days on real estate in poland. as far as it being a "real estate bubble".....i've talked about it before in this thread....but you can check the exact meaning of the term on google or wiki.

as far as the japanese.....some invested in hawaii and are doing very well these days. the key was having a stable market.

people from many countries (including poland) invest in places all over the world and make money. it's part of the global economy which recognizes borders less and less.

the key is a stable market that caters to investors needs.
Deise 07 3 | 76
22 Aug 2007 #66
To Bubba and Tornado - appreciate you taking the time to pass on the directions - will check them out - thanks
lef 11 | 478
23 Aug 2007 #68
yes i know that, and i much rather Melbourne to Queensland, more of a multi-cultural society

Its a question of horses for courses, you are correct the Japanese own a lot of real estate in Queensland (along the Gold Coast) I might add a lot of Americans own land in sort after locations.

I was born in Melbourne so I've got used to it, things I dare say things have changed since you left, homes have gone through the roof and it is almost impossible for a young person to buy a house.

I must say that I take off my hat to you for making it a go in Poland, Having a Polish wife must help, You must miss the near perfect weather in Australia and the missed opportunities down under. You must find the red tape hard to get used to and frustrating. They say that most people who try to re-establish in another country end up coming home.
davidpeake 14 | 451
23 Aug 2007 #69
Sometimes i think back, and wonder what we have done, all my wife's friends or people we meet think we are made for leaving the so called promise land. But it's a different life style here, more relaxed, but as you say the red tape is annoying, but they are a bit quicker when they realize you are english speaking. Learning the lingo is hard. My wife is a fantastic help, wouldn't try it by myself. But there is great business ops here for people willing to work hard at it.
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510
23 Aug 2007 #70
They say that most people who try to re-establish in another country end up coming home.

do you come from a long line of idiots lef or is it just a birth defect - you really are a prize plum
inkrakow
23 Aug 2007 #71
To answer the question above about tenants... I do a bit of buy/refurb/rent or sell here in Krakow and have found that the safest option is to rent to corporates as private tenants simply have too much power under current Polish law. There's no such thing as assured shorthold tenancies here as in the UK and the only way to evict a tenant who doesn't pay is to go to court - this can take many months to get through. And might not work if the tenant says they have nowhere else to live - the law forbids eviction onto the street. It's a potential nightmare.
lef 11 | 478
24 Aug 2007 #72
Sometimes i think back, and wonder what we have done

That must be the standard question when people make what they call now a seachange, sometimes you can burn your own bridges, however with a good Polish wife you have nothing to fear.

I dare say you would be in the best position to comment about buying and building in Poland. Good Luck.

do you come from a long line of idiots lef or is it just a birth defect - you really are a prize plum

more ranting and raving, with your nasty outbursts its a shame your British countrymen don't take you aside and teach you some manners.
davidpeake 14 | 451
24 Aug 2007 #73
I do believe there is some money still to be made, but long term property is not something i'm after in Poland, I have my piece of land, a flat and will probably build next year, i suppose i'm lucky as i will still be able to keep the flat. I think the big money making on quick turn overs may be not as good as 5 years ago. But thats my op. Im sure there is others here willing to give it a go.

I do think it is hard for the locals, some find good jobs, some dont, its like that all over the world, look at some of the areas around Melb, i would not live their, but its up to people and what they can afford, atleast in Poland uni is free. so you do have a good education system.

I think some of the big companies coming into Poland, should have stricter rules placed on them, its not a slave labour country, they need to treat people a bit better, i have heard some shocking stories.

I suppose the big difference i see is that some of us foregniers can afford to take a gamble with our money and it wont kill us if it doesnt work, but if it does, we have made a bit.

As for us investing in Poland, each to there own, i pay my tax here, zus, insurance, all the thing locals do, so i see no reason why i cant make some money here.
lef 11 | 478
24 Aug 2007 #74
Yeah, a good honest assessment, I thought about making a move, if there were more aussies it would be so much easier, I think the Polish people have a different mentality to that of the Australians.

I think sort after city locations will be always sort after and worth investing in, the countryside seems pretty sus.
deeIrish 7 | 33
24 Aug 2007 #75
Well there's a global credit crunch on right now. How is it being reported in the local media.

Are people who could afford to get a mortgage in February now finding it impossible?
Lady in red
24 Aug 2007 #76
Well there's a global credit crunch on right now

Is there ? I thought in the Uk the 'squeeze' was on borrowers with an already poor record ? I read they were going to find it harder to get 'good deals' on the interest rates they were charged and would have difficuly finding any better deals anywhere. I haven't read anything else yet for the UK. Mind you, I have been enjoying the fantastic hot weather we are enjoying here at the moment.

Is there a 'global credit crunch' on ? And do you mean a 'credit squeeze' have you a link I can see to catch up on this sort of info ?

So, this problem is it in Poland that you are referring because I don't think that comment applies in the UK ? So how 'global' do you mean ?
deeIrish 7 | 33
24 Aug 2007 #77
Well literally all the English-language finance websites are buzzing about this now. You may as well start with bloomberg.com

Basically, the subprime borrowers are the catalyst, but their mortgages were bought up as high-grade debt by financial entities all over the world. These bodies are finding that the mortgages they spent so much on are now worthless.

The world credit system requires all the banks to keep loaning each other money all the time. But this mess has meant that, as nobody knows who's got a subprime infection among their assets, they're refusing to loan to anyone. So the central banks have to intervene and be the emergency loan provider to prevent the banks from collapse.

Also, the price of US homes, even those owned by good borrowers, has fallen 10% in the last 3 months. This adds an extra layer of risk, which means banks have to charge more to cover it.
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510
24 Aug 2007 #78
Basically, the subprime borrowers are the catalyst, but their mortgages were bought up as high-grade debt by financial entities all over the world. These bodies are finding that the mortgages they spent so much on are now worthless.

ive read the same

Also, the price of US homes, even those owned by good borrowers, has fallen 10% in the last 3 months

how much further do you think they will fall?
Lady in red
24 Aug 2007 #79
Thanks for the link deeIrish, I'll have a read and look at a few more links.

I'll have a thorough read of it before I post back....

.

re people who could afford to get a mortgage in February now finding it impossible

It was this quote I couldn't quite identify with........but I need to read and digest first ...:)
ArturSzastak 3 | 593
24 Aug 2007 #80
how much further do you think they will fall?

I'm gonna say it will drop slowly for a little bit. Just a hunch. :]
Deise 07 3 | 76
24 Aug 2007 #81
The Federal Reserve and the ECB have had to bail a number of banks out over the past couple of weeks. These include Deutsche Bank and BNP Paribas. Also investment banks such as Bear Stearns in the States have lost billions due to it turning out that a number of their investment funds were made up of sub-prime mortgage junk. Apparently, it means that the days of easy credit are over and the banks will have to revert to the old fashioned mortgage lending levels of 2 or 3 times salary as opposed to 7 or 8 times over the past few years. Effectively, this means that anyone selling a house will have to drop their price from current levels if they want someone, who is relying on a mortgage, to be able to afford it. The experts are saying that it extends right across the financial sytem in the dollar, euro and asian markets as banks in all these zones have bought dodgy investment funds which are made up of this US sub-prime mortgage stuff.

Anyone know if any Polish banks are exposed? Also, has there been a relaxation of credit restrictions over the past few years in Poland?
deeIrish 7 | 33
27 Aug 2007 #82
Will Hutton, liberal UK finance commentator, says:

"Interpol should make arrests in New York, London, Tokyo, Beijing, Frankfurt and Paris, starting with all the executives in the credit-rating agencies who blithely ranked the debt as creditworthy in exchange for fat fees and freebies from the very banks who were making the absurd loans. Governments should bring suits against the executives involved, the repositories of vast personal wealth, to help repair the hole in private and public balance sheets."

spiritus 68 | 666
27 Aug 2007 #83
Totally agree with Bubba on this one.

In any booming property market all you have to do is buy a property, sit on your arse, and sell at a decent profit later on. The more astute will make a healthier profit but at this stage of a boom EVERYONE will make a bit of money.

As the market matures it becomes harder to make money but not impossible. It's about this time that most people get a little spooked as they see capital appreciation and rental yields are not as great as when the boom was at it's apex.

This is the time when serious investors earn their money by doing lots of spade work in trying to find properties and sites with potential. I think Poland is fast approaching this stage.

Deise, Poznan is not a bad choice actually :)
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510
27 Aug 2007 #84
the good deals have been snapped up in most major cities... time to look elsewhere... do your home work, use your head and you will find bargains elsewhere

and anyone wanting to buy in the tricity would do worse than give tczew a shifty - the new road is about to open and the prices have moved sharply upwards in the past few months...
Qacer 38 | 125
27 Aug 2007 #85
how much further do you think they will fall?

Here's the latest article on CNN regarding the housing market in the US:
money.cnn.com/2007/08/27/news/economy/homesales/index.htm?cnn=yes

You may also check out the Greater Tampa Bay Realtor's website to get a sample of Florida's real estate market:

The FL market is one of the main markets hit by the sub-prime crash. I was keeping track of a few home prices and two homes on my list went down from $249,000 to $239,000 and $242,000 to $230,000 in a two month time span. Some inventory homes went down from $350,000 to $250,000. The foreclosure rates are also going up. Because of this, banks have tightened lending requirements and eliminated some of the fancy mortgage options like unconventional ARMs and interest only loans.
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510
27 Aug 2007 #86
thanks for the info Qacer - fortunately the market im looking at is pretty much the only one that has risen in recent months... oh yes indeedy!

just replied to your PM
grovesofacadem 2 | 1
29 Aug 2007 #87
Basically, the non-US financial institutions that were buying the sub-prime mortgages kept on buying and others in turn were attracted to the high initial returns (some lured by pure greed, no doubt, but having little idea of the riskiness of the venture).

However, the US economy is still pretty strong, unemployment is low, creditworthy borrowers can still get home loans at comparatively low rates (remember the Carter administration, anyone?), and in some areas home sales are now actually rising. Here in the Midwest, we had seen in the past year or so some folks sell their tiny California or Northeast homes on postage-stamp size lots for, say, $900K, then buy a home here with twice the sq. footage on about 20 acres on a lake in the Ozarks, and still have half the proceeds to play around with or invest! Now California homes are getting harder to sell, so we are not seeing so many out of state buyers for our high-end homes.

Flying into Gdansk last week, I saw tons of building going on in subdivisions - large homes on big lots. However, Bubbawoo is "right on the money" in buying older properties and refurbishing them either for resale or rental. I am seeing formerly rundown parts of town here in Missouri becoming revitalized by such developers, with gang members moving out as young families move in. 85% of the real estate transactions here are for properties listed at $150,000 or less. 4 years ago, I bought a 600sqft one bedroom house for $30,000, gutted it, rewired it, etc. and could now get double if I put it on the market. Our waterfront acre on the Gulf of Mexico we bought 10 years ago for $18K. Last year a guy bought his acre (not on the water) for $750K.

So either buy it and sit on it till it appreciates, or buy run-down properties and use your own sweat equity to help them appreciate. The old mantra is still true, though - "Location, location, location", and I have to say that the Tri-Cities is one of the nicest locations I have seen in a while! I'll be back, but first I'll do my research and get my team together.

I'm new to this forum, but I do appreciate it when members refrain from personal attacks.
Giles
12 Sep 2007 #88
Hmm... well i don't know much about anything, however. i do know that the two properties i've brought and paid for have in three years or so made decent returns. The little flat i brought last year for 77,000 zl is now valued at 189,000 zl. So i reckon thats good.

Finally i know bubba better than most on this forum since and he does know what he is doing. And yes Lef is very ignorant.

A brief aside, the other week i refused 6 australians entry to my nightclub in London, when the asked me why, i replied "because you are Australian". Aussie arrogance especially those in london, is unbelievable. They are aggressive, arrogant rude and often violent. I'm pleased to say i have had the pleasure of punching and stamping on many many Aussie heads. (New Zealanders however, are a completely different bunch and are generally polite and decent people.)

To all you decent Australians out there I apologies for my rantings, but the majority of your country men are like chavvy Brits. Kunts
davidpeake 14 | 451
12 Sep 2007 #89
To all you decent Australians out there I apologies for my rantings, but the majority of your country men are like chavvy Brits. Kunts

What a load of ******** Giles
Spook
12 Sep 2007 #90
There are a lot of very visable Aussies all over London who tend to behave like the worst of British stag parties every time they go out - they are loud, aggressive, rude and arrogant as Giles suggests... furthermore, they tend to get most uppity when decent British folk, like myself, point out that Australians are decended from British cast-offs and that many of them have a strange penchant for beastiality, as recorded for prosperity in the well known ditty by Rolf Harris


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