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Contemplating moving to Poland with the intention of buying a property out-right and living there


Maximilian 2 | 5
24 Nov 2014 #1

Questions about moving to Poland



Hello to all and thank you very much for viewing this thread written by a total newbie to this forum, even more so if you succeed reading the entire post to the end! I know it is pretty poor practice (and manners) to just sign up to a forum with what looks like quite a vibrant and `rich community and just ask a bunch of questions in his first post. I hope you will forgive me for this but I was recommended by a friend of a friend that I stand a chance as good as any in becoming more enlightened regarding the questions I am about to ask in this forum.

Essentially I am strongly considering moving to Poland with the intention of buying a property out-right and living there for the foreseeable future. The reasons for this are complicated and pertain mostly to my great enjoyment of the culture of Poland and her people - considerably more than where I currently live in Britain. In addition, a lot of it lies in the financial side of things (I have to spend a LOT of money renting in an expensive British city). I do not wish to spend the next 2-3 decades enslaved to a mortgage. I work offshore for oil and gas and am currently saving as much as I possibly can to accumulate enough capital to outright buy a property (and all the hidden costs of which I am very uneducated that go with it). Please don't get me wrong - I am not earning a massive salary like you might imagine in this line of profession - £35 approx grand/annum pre-tax is more on the mark. It is advantageous however in that I could live mostly wherever I want by virtue of not having to work in an office and that I can be dispatched to work from wherever. I'd of course be continuing this line of work for the foreseeable future (and employment would be based in the UK).

I am aiming to find a small(ish) 2 bedroom apartment ideally close to the city center (in a place that is not dangerous, is furnished at least in the sense of gas/electricity/floor tiles etc.) in either the Tricity, Krakow, Warsaw or Wroclaw. I also enjoyed Rzeszow quite a lot. I have not spent a great deal of time in each city but based on the vibes I picked up, the people I met and the overall feel of the culture I decided that Szczecin, Poznan, Lublin, Bydgoszcz just weren't for me. My knowledge about every relevant question concerning this notion of moving to Poland is very sparse and if members would be so kind to link me specifically to where I can find an answer to these questions if they cannot or wish not to give their own answer, I would be supremely obliged.

ONE) What sort of budget should I expect to have if I wanted to buy such a property in the aforementioned cities? I've searched all kind of property websites but don't have a clue which ones are legit. Some people say one can find a 2 bedroom apartment in the Tricity (near the centre of whichever of the 3 cities) for £30,000 total (many Polish people I work with from Gdynia, Gdansk confirm that at this moment in time it is not far off the mark). It sounds too good to be true of course - so what kind of budget are we really talking about? If it is more like £100,000 for a small, 2 bedroom place in a not-so dangerous part of one of those cities then it would take me 3 years at least to reach such a sum (£30 grand thereabouts is my budget right now).

TWO) Poland might adopt the euro in the near future (within 5 years?) In your educated opinion(s) what sort of impact might that have with regards to property? Would it be advisable to try and buy a place before the euro comes into adoption? Would the prices then skyrocket? If one had bought a property (outright) does that mean the value would simply skyrocket? I am not well-versed in economics as you can see and if you know any dummy guides pertaining to Poland in this regard I can peruse online please feel free.

THREE) What is the true attitude to foreigners (Brits in this case) buying property in Poland. Somehow I cannot imagine that being positive because of the typical wages of most Poles and the relatively high prices. Would there be a lot of difficulty in the process of actually buying a property? What sort of things would foreigners face that locals necessarily would not? Indeed are there any legal criteria I need to meet as a foreigner (not yet a citizen) wanting to buy a property in Poland. I know I sound so stupid asking these questions. I'm guessing there is some equivalent of stamp duty, state or city taxes etc? I am also guessing you need a Polish lawyer (translator too) for the conveyance (as it is called in UK). I suppose there is a council tax of some kind that is paid monthly. Surveyors for checking the apartment to ensure no hidden defects in property? Do flats tend to be freehold or with a long lease so no-one can claim it back within a certain time period?

NOTE I have been learning Polish most of this year and of course I have found it very hard. I did a 3 week intensive course focusing on grammar and my vocabulary is increasing every day and the idea is to keep taking lessons in combination with self-study to reach the B1/B2 level at least. I chat with Polish workers offshore quite a bit for practice.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
24 Nov 2014 #2
In addition, a lot of it lies in the financial side of things (I have to spend a LOT of money renting in an expensive British city).

From what I've heard, smaller cities, especially in north of England have very similar prices to Gdynia or Kraków.

Some people say one can find a 2 bedroom apartment in the Tricity (near the centre of whichever of the 3 cities) for £30,000 total (many Polish people I work with from Gdynia, Gdansk confirm that at this moment in time it is not far off the mark).

Here you have average apartment prices in few Polish cities. It's from this summer. If the price which you find is substantially lower, then there is something wrong with this apartment. Could have tenants which don't pay the rent and you cannot easily evict. Could be far away from the city. Could be in bad condition. There are also so called TBS apartment, they cost half, but you buy the right to live there, but not to sell it. From my knowledge 30000 GBP buys you new apartment max. 50 m2 in 60k town in Poland.

Apartments prices in Poland for square meter in major cities.

Look how apartment prices changed in Slovakia. Basically most of growth happened in years before adopting euro. I think nobody knows that, but currency doesn't seem to be the main reason of prices growth. It's not sure if Poland will adopt euro in 5 years.

What sort of things would foreigners face that locals necessarily would not?

Probably would need to use translator. If you would like to take mortgage, then Polish law allows it only in the same currency as your earning. There may be no banks offering mortgage in GBP.
moniq
24 Nov 2014 #3
Hi Max,

I am a pole (female) so maybe I'll be able to help you somehow.
My first question is when are you going to live in Poland? (in the nearest future and are going to work there, or when you'r retired??)

The cities you have prefered: Tricity, Krakow, Warsaw or Wroclaw are the most expensive ones (I am from Poznan which is the same).
If you really want a nice flat, with floor, in a building that won't collapse in the next few years (and please - no TBS!) than you will have to spend....about 250.000 - 300.000 pln, which is about 60.000 gbn (Warsaw may be even 1,5 times more expensive; Krakow and Wroclaw would be also pretty expensive).

I wouldn't trust cheaper offert (I believe, you want to have some living standards and not to live in a ruin).
If there is something cheaper - bear in mind, there must be a reason for it...

And you have to (definately!) take with you a bilingual person, who is polish and knows polish law and rules.
There may be some huge differences between polish and british law.

I believe however, that if you are interested in polish culture and make some more research, etc - it may have a happy ending ;-)

You are choosing a big cities = more freedom, multicultural lifestyle and all the different people.
My parents have an english neighbor (he lives now in PL about 18 years) and he seems to be satysfied with it.

I think polish people appreciate newcomers (as we don't have many, for european standards) especially english-speaking...(e.g. we are not really keen on germans :-) )

I admire your courage and wish you good luck!!
NODUFF 5 | 13
24 Nov 2014 #4
Max,
You are not alone, I'm just like you, an English man who is seriously contemplating the move.
I totally understand and share your passion.
Lock, stock and everything else is my intention.
I shall follow this thread, and wish you all the very best of 'British' ;-)
OP Maximilian 2 | 5
25 Nov 2014 #5
@ Monitor @ moniq

Thank you very much for taking the time and effort to answer my questions, I am extremely grateful. I am serious about moving, yes and of course when you don't fully understand what the score is, it seems like a giant minefield which one is poorly equipped to navigate without the appropriate tools. My greatest fear is the bureaucracy which most Poles I know (rightfully) complain about and needless to say I'll need the enlist the help of a Pole who knows property law inside out. I'm a little stuck on that front as most of my Polish friends (not many at this stage of course) don't know much about law in general. My current gf actually is finishing up a masters degree in law but sadly it doesn't cover property at all ;-) It looks like the prices are way higher than what I have been led to believe and as my father always says, if it looks too good to be true, it almost certainly is 100% of the time (he is a wise man but one who is extremely supportive of my moving to Poland - his grandparents on both sides were all Polish!!!)

Bureaucracy seems to be the only major problem I would encounter and of course I am prepared for it. Some things I take for granted in the UK such as simple things like adhering to queues when lining up for a bus don't exist it seems hahahaa. And of course I am a 26 year old British male - the stereotypical demographic for binge-drinking and rowdy displays of antisocial behaviour and stag doos (I engage of none of these activities by the way) - I worry about how people will perceive me upon first impression (especially older people). I know the grass is always greener and it is easy to conjure up some imaginary image of what one wants a country to be like and then be brought down to earth when it comes to the nitty gritty. However, I would trade the few shortfalls for the things I cannot stand about where I stay in Britain - hoodie culture and violence, binge drinking culture, miserable rain any day of the year, political correctness and difficulty finding a compatible girlfriend.

When am I planning to move to Poland? Really, as soon as possible. It is only a matter of how much money I require. At present maybe over £30k (can take loans in UK if necessary to get more) is my budget but of course if I need to save up over the next 2-3 years to reach the £100k mark then that is what I am willing to do. I spend 90% of all my time (when I am not working offshore which is 180-200 days a year) in Poland usually staying in hostels and what not over various cities. It is terrible from an economic standpoint as I am paying huge rent and bills in the UK where I spend very little time now. If all goes to plan and I manage to buy a place outright, the cheaper bills will mean I will be able to work 1/3 of the year offshore instead of 1/2-2/3 which is a very lovely prospect also!

@Noduff

Thank you for your kind words. If I am successful I'm going to make a blog maybe about it (there is a guy who has done this already actually!!)
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
25 Nov 2014 #6
.

I have not spent a great deal of time in each city but

No one wise should buy a home in a foreign country until they have lived there for quite a long time and become certain they want to stay. Renting is sensible until a person knows whether they want to stay. And that usually means trying it for a year or more.

I also see no one has mentioned the tax situation. UK single person tax free allowance GBP10K (10 thou) approx. Poland GBP600 (six hundred) approx.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
25 Nov 2014 #7
his grandparents on both sides were all Polish!!!

So it seems that you could get Polish citizenship through him. Not that it would be useful, but you could call yourself official Pole :)

Some things I take for granted in the UK such as simple things like adhering to queues when lining up for a bus don't exist it seems hahahaa.

That leads for example to complainant about lack of seats numbering in PolskiBus. It's a copy of British MegaBus, owned by the same person. The method of selling unnumbered seats which works in UK, doesn't work in Poland, because people cannot queue and in consequence complain that they have to fight for a place instead of being able to choose it during reservation.

I worry about how people will perceive me upon first impression

I think that they will be able to distinguish you from "tourists", especially if you make an effort to learn Polish (except if you're not white). Do you know some foreign language already? It usually helps with learning next languages.

hoodie culture and violence

is it something like Polish Dresiarze? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dres

It is only a matter of how much money I require.

Why is it a condition? If you earn out of UK, then you can move to Poland and rent something here. Rents in Poland are much cheaper than in UK on average. For example studio in small town can cost you only 800zł/month with all costs included.

I also see no one has mentioned the tax situation. UK single person tax free allowance GBP10K (10 thou) approx. Poland GBP600 (six hundred) approx.

For that reason perhaps you would like to buy/rent something next to Szczecin on the German side of the border? I've heard prices there are cheap and you could pay Germany taxes, have German 8000 EUR per year free allowance and commute to Szczecin for entertainment.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
25 Nov 2014 #8
He has to pay tax on his UK-derived income to the Poland tax office, doesn't he? That means if he lets (rents out) his home in the UK and earns UK interest on savings - it comes under the Poland tax office after a period of time, does it not? Doesn't it also mean that his oil exploration income is also taxed by Poland?

A reasonable flat in a city of 2 or 3 rooms is about 400 quid a month to rent excluding bills but including service charge.

Also, if a driver, tolls have to be paid on motorways now I think. And food is almost the same price as the UK.

It's all these expenses that makes me wonder how Poles afford to live in Poland, given the wages are so low compared to the UK. Rents here are double that of the UK when compared to 'normal' wages.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
25 Nov 2014 #9
So the question is where would his tax residence be. It's defined by the place where he live/works for most of the time during a year. If the oil company defines work place as UK territory, then he should pay taxes to British government as he spends over 183 days (half a year) working there. But if offshore means, that it's not UK anymore, then probably the place where his house is would define tax residency.

Here they say that oil rigs are treated as UK territory for tax purposes.

accountingweb.co.uk/anyanswers/question/oil-rig-workers-and-tax-liabilities

So it seems that he would have British tax residency and would pay taxes there. Except if workers there are employed as subcontractors. Then it's more complicated.
moniq - | 3
25 Nov 2014 #10
I think you are wrong guys with the tax issue.

There are many polish ppl who live next to the german border and work in Germany, or many germans who live on the austrian border and work in Austria.

As we all now belong to UE - and there is a law to abolish bi-taxation you pay tax in the country where your employee is (Amazon pay tax in Lux although ppl in whole Europe work for them from different countries).

You may posses 5 houses in 5 countries, travel from one to another, so the most import is where is your company situated (you make work in Thainland from ur pc for a british company, and so you pay taxes in UK and not in Thailand).

I dont know if there are any additional restriction on buying home in PL for foreigners, but if you have money it should be easy.

You can aways sell it or rent it... but if I were in your shoes - I'd feel better if I have tried living in a city before byuing a flat there.

Remember there are not only good things about Poland (Dres, low wages, some narrow minded group of ppl, and as poland was for a long time closed - xenofobistic ppl). There are really many bad things to say about our politics, social system, and much more...

However I am always really happy to meet all the different newcommers in Poland, I love british accent and would prefer to date you than a polish guy haha

Aha, remember that Brits are polite - Poles are not! (PolishBus queues, etc).

Bureaucracy in Poland - I wouldn't trust them. Sometimes thay say sth else and do sth else (although I am experiencing the same in Germany...).

@Monitor - don't encourage him to live close to the German border. Maybe it is cheap there but it cause nb wants to live there!

I know eastern Germany pretty good and it is so sad in there... People have no work, all look the same (coloured hair, piercings, tatoos, unemployed), just terrible!
Monitor 14 | 1,820
25 Nov 2014 #11
so the most import is where is your company situated

No, the most important is where you spend most of the time during the year: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_residence
If someone works only 5 months in UK, but live 7 years in Poland, then will be tax resident of Poland. Although probably he is considered employed in UK for 12 months, then his tax residency will be probably there.
moniq - | 3
25 Nov 2014 #12
@ Monitor

and how are they going to check where he has spent the most time in year?
There are no borders, he can be registered as living in 2 countries...
Does it depend than on his declaration??
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
25 Nov 2014 #13
I'd be a tad surprised if the UK doesn't record when a person comes and goes via a passport number or scan. Possibly Poland does too. Remember, the UK is not in Schengen so there is a border when entering the UK and also you show your passport at the airport when leaving Poland for the UK. I'd be surprised if they haven't got a system in place.
OP Maximilian 2 | 5
26 Nov 2014 #14
Hey guys. It looks like there has been some very interesting discussion here :P

@ Monitor

I'm not sure if I could get Polish citizenship this way, all my grandparents are dead and I doubt there is any evidence I could use now.

As I said in my first post I have some skill in the Polish language - I learned vocabulary religiously (and am still learning), I did a 3 week course focusing on grammar. I don't know what level I am at - my grammar is terrible and this is what I focus on during my one-on-one lessons. I am hoping to eventually reach the B2 level at least - it is an excruciatingly hard language but I study every day so I can only ever get better. Plus its in my genes to speak the language hahaha))

As far as people perceive me - I find most hostility I have ever faced has been from older people who assume I am a troublesome stag-doo happy Brit although more often than not there is a look of shock on their face when they see I have an ok grasp of the narzednik case :D I also face some trouble from Polish men in nightlife settings (which I always grew to despise anyway in the UK because of the highly primitive atmosphere) which is funny because I am as useless with girls there as I am in UK night-life settings.

I looked up this "dres" and I see they are basically the Polish equivalent to "neds" you find here in Scotland. Essentially my least favourite type of human being - I absolutely despise thugs and wee neds/chavs. I feel lucky that I have not encountered them thus far (except in Bydgoszcz). I presume they are all over the place in Warsaw. The tricity, Wroclaw and Krakow I didn't see any and I hope that doesn't change)

As far as money being a condition. First of all, all my belongings (and I mean all, my parent's forced me to take every item I own with me) are in my current flat and to take all my things with me to Poland will be a huge and expensive operation - one I would rather undertake once I own my own house rather than a rented flat. Also, it is complicated by the fact the company I work for are not happy about me being "based" in Poland. So obviously the idea is to become an "agency/dayrate" worker where this no longer becomes an issue - however it is risky as there is no salary and one is subject to the highs and lows of the oil and gas market. It wouldn't be an issue if I owned a house in Poland however as the cheap bills mean I wouldn't have to spend such a copious proportion of time offshore.

@inWroclaw, @Monitor @Moniq

I don't own in any property in the UK so as far as tax is concerned there is no issue. The only issue I can see is employment income tax. The 183 day seafarer's tax loophole allows a relevant worker to claim back all of his/her income tax as long as the vessel is outwith the 12 mile uk zone and meets the appropriate critera (type of ship etc). It is actually very complex as there are countless exceptions and rules and most sensible would-be claimers employ an accountant to help them out. I personally don't bother claiming it back because of all the hassle plus I am a salary worker who is sent where-ever the company desires. But anyway, as far as where i would be paying tax if I lived in Poland is concerned - I don't have a scooby. For sure I would need to see a proper accountant. It may be that because I am paid out of the UK, I pay tax in the UK and because of the double-tax law (that means you don't pay tax twice) that exists in Poland that should be the end of it. Or maybe I pay in Poland.

I thought food was cheaper in Poland - certainly my experience so far. I wouldn't rent an apartment for the long term (long term being a year plus) - I currently live in either hostels or university dorms (£100/month thereabouts) in the south/southeast region of Poland (because of my current relationship). I would much rather buy a property. I am a driver and I do plan to drive.

Reflecting on staying in a city for a year. For sure, it is good advice. It is hard to actually decide where to live out of the cities I mentioned. My initial idea was to spend a couple of months in each city and after 2 years decide which is best for me. Truth be told I don't have many friends in Poland yet. Not close ones for sure. I do however find I have SIGNIFICANTLY, exceedingly more choice when it comes to finding a girlfriend. Within one month I was able to find a wonderful girl which happened so naturally (this meeting was quite easily the happiest moment in my life so far - or at least the happiest I have been since I can remember). I have literally spend years single in the UK (I am rather introverted, short and not naturally good looking may have something to do with it but honestly there is a myriad of factors). In Poland it is far easier for me and if I am brutally honest here, it may be my number 1 reason for moving to Poland :) Judge that how you will. Keeping in touch with my friends in the UK wouldn't be too hard (cheap ryanair flights direct to Glasgow from most cities).

edited for typos
jon357 63 | 14,600
26 Nov 2014 #15
I feel lucky that I have not encountered them thus far (except in Bydgoszcz). I presume they are all over the place in Warsaw

All over the place in PL, especially in the suburbs and small towns. Warsaw doesn't have too much of a problem - just a few dodgy areas well away from the centre.

In Poland it is far easier for me and if I am brutally honest here, it may be my number 1 reason for moving to Poland :) Judge that how you will.

Nothing wrong with following your heart.

I find most hostility I have ever faced has been from older people who assume I am a troublesome stag-doo happy Brit

I've honestly never come across that - or perhaps I'm just thick skinned.

The gentleman works in petrochemicals like me so I can say that the situation of coming to Poland may be very advantageous for him.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
26 Nov 2014 #16
Reflecting on staying in a city for a year. For sure, it is good advice. It is hard to actually decide where to live out of the cities I mentioned. My initial idea was to spend a couple of months in each city and after 2 years decide which is best for me.

Sounds like you're ready for your adventure, and hopefully all will go well. Just a quick word on the 2 months in each city thing if you choose that -- it's not easy to find landlords who do 2 just months, most want a 1-year contract, but also most lets are via agents and they charge a fee for the rental like Scotland used to before it was outlawed. So you'll have that extra expense. The fee is anything from 25-100% of a month's rent depending on how you negotiate and how hungry the agent is that month. A small number of agents charge nothing, however, look for bez / 0% / nie / prowizji or similar in ads.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
26 Nov 2014 #17
Does it depend than on his declaration??

Yes, I think so. But if they prove you cheating, for example because you're legally employed in local company for longer than 1/2 a year, then you will have to pay fines. And as inWroclaw pointed out in case of UK they have it easier to control than inside of Schengen.

take all my things with me to Poland will be a huge and expensive operation

You would be surprised how Polish competition drove prices down. I guess that transport from UK to Poland is the cheapest on so long distance out of all other countries. First google results:

whole Van up to 1300kg 4200zł 800GBP
½ Van Do 650kg 2100zł 400GBP

atrans-paczki.pl/pl/uslugi/6,przeprowadzki-poska-anglia-europa
or here
euro-paczki.pl/index.php/przeprowadzki

But you better find some opinions about these companies before entrusting them your possession. In Munich where I live I would have to pay min 100GBP(120EUR) for 1/2 of Van for few kms.

Also, it is complicated by the fact the company I work for are not happy about me being "based" in Poland.

And that is an advantage of living in richer country.

I thought food was cheaper in Poland - certainly my experience so far.

Cheap food and all types of pork products are cheaper in Poland. Imported goods, higher quality food, like good cheeses not necessarily. Restaurants are definitely cheaper.

it may be my number 1 reason for moving to Poland

we all have known that

The gentleman works in petrochemicals like me so I can say that the situation of coming to Poland may be very advantageous for him.

Yes, I wanted to mention, that more important than tax free allowance is effective tax rate for given salary. And there are few ways to optimize it in Poland (umowy cywilnoprawne for example)

it's not easy to find landlords who do 2 just months,

he can continue staying in hostels like now or rent through airndb.com
jon357 63 | 14,600
26 Nov 2014 #18
Yes, I wanted to mention, that more important than tax free allowance is effective tax rate for given salary.

The most important thing is that Polish tax only applies if you live there for more than 183 (or is it 186?) days per year. People offshore generally are not on land for that long (this doesn't routinely apply to sailors by the way - they have their own tax arrangements) and they can't be caught out by the "centre of interests" rule unless they have a spouse/family in PL or are employed permanently by a company registered in Poland.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
26 Nov 2014 #19
The most important thing is that Polish tax only applies if you live there for more than 183 (or is it 186?) days per year

Doesn't a person have to forget about topping up their UK ISA after that, and also pay tax to Poland on their UK income such as shares and interest on savings?
jon357 63 | 14,600
26 Nov 2014 #20
Doesn't a person have to forget about topping up their UK ISA after that

Of course - if they're no longer a tax resident there.

and also pay tax to Poland on their UK income such as shares and interest on savings?

If they exceed the 183 days' tax residency
Monitor 14 | 1,820
26 Nov 2014 #21
I've found out how it is with captain gains tax from interests on Polish deposits for German tax resident. It's quite complex. Basically It's necessary to present Polish bank certificate of German residency. Then according to bilateral agreement Germany - Poland they should start charging 5% interests tax instead of 19%. Then I should reveal these earning in my annual German tax statement and pay normal German 25% tax - 5% payed in Poland (plus extras on East Germany or Church if somebody is Catholic or Protestant) for all earnings above 801eur interests per year.

I think it must look similar with British interests for resident of Poland.
jon357 63 | 14,600
26 Nov 2014 #22
I think it must look similar with British interests for resident of Poland.

Sort of, though in the OPs case it would be different since working offshore he wouldn't spend long enough in either country to become a tax resident. A win-win situation.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
26 Nov 2014 #23
If they exceed the 183 days' tax residency

When all the Polish people went to the UK and started work on a PAYE or self-employed basis, were they not liable for income tax to the Poland govt and not HMRC for a certain period, eg their first 183 days perhaps? And if they have interest or share divs back home in PL, that interest tax and div tax is due to HMRC is it not?
Monitor 14 | 1,820
26 Nov 2014 #24
were they not liable for income tax to the Poland govt and not HMRC for a certain period, eg their first 183 days perhaps?

A person is tax responsible for the whole year to one country only, where he was tax resident. Of course if e.g. Pole had worked for nearly half a year in Poland and rest of the year in UK, then he is tax resident of UK for that year (here I am not sure weather calendar year or tax year as it varies). But what will happen with income and dividend tax payed in Poland dictates bilateral agreement. Usually income tax and dividend tax payed in a country where somebody wasn't resident is subtracted from tax owed in the country where a person is tax resident. But tax liability for dividends/interests is to the country of residency.
on the move
30 Nov 2014 #25
Hey guys, just come across this post, I'm in the same position as I intend to settle in Poland, hard to find a starting point in this discussion except to say that you need to be in Poland to understand the price of real estate, what you see in newspapers seem to be inflated prices. Secondly and most important keep in mind tax laws which effect your country and Poland. Red tape when making purchases and of course hidden costs associated with living in Poland, what immediately comes to mind is health insurance?? local taxes, and personal insurance...On the face of it living in Poland from the US and GB seems like easy street, unfortunately the stress associated with the move makes it not worthwhile, better stick to visiting Poland as a holiday .. will comment further
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
30 Nov 2014 #26
seems like easy street,

It isn't, unless the person moving to Poland has a lot of money and doesn't need to work or has a 'just can't fail' business idea, has a skill in an IT discipline or similar in demand role, or has a friend in Poland who will give him or her a decent paying job regardless. Even if able to get hired for IT or some in demand role, the wages are something like 1/3 of the UK and probably 1/5 of the USA. Yet the price of most food is nearly the same as the UK (except bread, vodka, beer, apples and a few other staples) and higher than the States. If a person has none of those skills, the best they're likely to get if in or near a city is working in a call centre for US$600 a month. After deducting $400 for rent, there's not going to be much left for much of a lifestyle such as running a car, entertainments, buying nice things, etc. That's why it's usually only those with a job arranged that enter Poland. (If a person speaks Polish, wages in ordinary roles are still not much higher than the call centre unless at manager level, by the way).
pigsy 7 | 305
14 Dec 2014 #27
unless the person moving to Poland has a lot of money

what amount is lots of money?
& @ OP if you buy a property to live paid off, you will do ok.
OP Maximilian 2 | 5
21 Mar 2015 #28
Hey guys,

I've been saving away since I last posted on this thread that I started. So far I am at the £32,000 mark and I estimate by 2016 I should have reached the £60,000 mark. I'm not sure if this is even close to enough to buy a place outright in one of the cities I mentioned but that is certainly what I am aiming for. I was talking to this guy who lives in Gdansk who is British. He reckons if you are registered in the UK then you can have a holiday home abroad (assuming you buy outright - mortgage requires you are based and registered in Poland).

Because the company he works for is based in the UK he is taxed in the UK and because of the double tax agreement - when the Polish authorities ask him to pay tax (he is registered in Poland) - he makes this clear and it seems to be ok (although they harrass him quite a bit). For myself I would still be registered in the UK and as I work offshore 180-200 days a year essentially I would be out of the UK and Poland more than half the year so I could choose to remain registered in the UK and probably be able to claim my tax back due to seafarer's agreement (as long as it lasts which may not be for much longer) or to be registered in Poland and be able to claim my tax back for the same reason. Hell, apparently it is easier to claim it back in Poland because you simply need to be out of the country for 6 months period, whereas in the UK it is very complicated (days in hand blah blah)...

So from what I can see the only issue is how much money I actually need to cover everything but I imagine I am right in thinking that £60,000 is barely enough to buy a so-so 2 bedroom not tiny flat that is not TBS and not falling apart in a so-so district in the Tri-city for example. The only thing that keeps me going is the knowledge that £60,000 in Glasgow would be enough for a fair-sized deposit should I decide to buy to let (something I would rather not get into because it is VERY hard to get a buy to let if it is your FIRST buy and the issues of keeping tenants in the flat so I am always breaking even and indeed tenants who will actually pay) whereas in Poland I COULD buy a flat with that sum. The advantage of going down this route however is: If I decided to do that, I would rent in Poland for a longer period of time and I would focus on trying to pay that mortgage in Glasgow off so that when it is, I will have a property which i could sell for a MUCH greater price (stupid tax sucks though) and could ultimately buy a better place in Poland. I would also have spent more time in Poland to know where I really want to live....It could be many years though if I have difficulty with fines for trying to pay off mortgage early...

What do you think of this alternative plan? Sensible or stupid or somewhere in between...?
Monitor 14 | 1,820
21 Mar 2015 #29
You don't have to buy property in Poland in order to live here. I don't know if investing in Polish real estate is the best financial decision you can make.
weeg
22 Mar 2015 #30
Maybe not the best investment, but its a gamble like all other investments. Hes in a fortunate in that he can do it without it being a 20 year millstone.

Property is, unfortunately, one of the safer investments you can make. Buying something comparatively cheap, but still easily salable, make sense in my opinion.


Home / Real Estate / Contemplating moving to Poland with the intention of buying a property out-right and living there
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