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Is this a bad time to buy an apartment in Poland?


Piotr123 1 | 49
11 Sep 2010 #1
Hello,

I would like to buy an apartment in Poland and I'm wondering if the real estate prices are expected to slide? I'm particularly interested in centrally located high-end apartments in Krakow.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
11 Sep 2010 #2
What you are looking for, is not expected to slide any more. Things are picking up again and prices are stable, especially for high-end apartments. This is my opinion, I live near Krakow and have some dealings in the real estate business here. I do not see an increase in the value of your potential purchase over the next year. The report from the real estate market - August Poland Open Finance

An important factor is what do you want to use the apartment as?

To live, holiday place, investment, to let out, to sell on...?

The more information you give the better advice we can provide.
poland_
11 Sep 2010 #3
I'm particularly interested in centrally located high-end apartments in Krakow.

Hi Piotr123, I was down in Krakow for a while and there are three places I thought looked interesting.

1. gardenresidence.pl/index,en.html
2. Area around Plac na Groblach.
3. Debniki

As far as is it the right time, its all about price.
OP Piotr123 1 | 49
11 Sep 2010 #4
SeanBM

An important factor is what do you want to use the apartment as?

I hope to live there in the future. The apartment should also be a good investment for the future.

Hi Piotr123, I was down in Krakow for a while and there are three places I thought looked interesting.

Thank you for bringing that development to my attention! I could not find any development of such a high standard. The location seems very good also.
poland_
11 Sep 2010 #5
It is very close to Kazmierz and it is Greek company behind it, so they should be a little flexible. There is a beach that has been created on the river close by, and there is talk of a marina being built, but you would have to check up on it. Good luck I hope the search goes well.
malyniebieski 3 | 16
12 Sep 2010 #6
But the high end units are still out of reach and way too expensive. Who can afford this?

Janek
poland_
12 Sep 2010 #7
The people that are trading up.
OP Piotr123 1 | 49
13 Sep 2010 #8
But the high end units are still out of reach and way too expensive. Who can afford this?Janek

What are the prices? I had planned to contact the developer to inquire about the prices.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
13 Sep 2010 #9
Apparently its a secret. If you have to ask, you can't afford it. MY usual resposne is to look elsewhere, I never undertsand the logic of hiding the price of such a commodity.
poland_
13 Sep 2010 #10
What are the prices? I had planned to contact the developer to inquire about the prices.

Prices of what project ?
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
13 Sep 2010 #11
What are the prices?

That Garden residence doesn't allow you to see the prices, they want you to enter your email address, so they can get back to you. Well that's all I can find.
OP Piotr123 1 | 49
13 Sep 2010 #12
Prices of what project ?

The only project mentioned in this thread! The project that you linked to.

Apparently its a secret. If you have to ask, you can't afford it. MY usual resposne is to look elsewhere, I never undertsand the logic of hiding the price of such a commodity.

No matter how much money one has, it is still prudent to make a good investment. I don't think that anyone with a different attitude could ever amass any larger sum of money for themselves. I highly doubt that the price is a secret.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
13 Sep 2010 #13
I highly doubt that the price is a secret.

It's not.

I would put high end apartments in Krakow anything from 9000 - 11000 PLN per M2.
You can get higher priced but it is uncommon and must be for a super exclusive and unique apartment or just a lie.

wislanetarasy.pl/en/ - Vistula Terraces are nicely located beside Kazimierz and the river, there is a really nice "tram boat" that leaves from outside it and they give prices on their site. I like this one.

There is also: przybulwarze.pl

Both of them are high end and between 9-10,000 PLN per M2.

Property Krakow Group are a real estate company that have many offers all over Krakow.

High end can mean different things to different people, what is it you expect?
poland_
14 Sep 2010 #14
The only project mentioned in this thread! The project that you linked to.

The prices were in the region of 8,500 PLN per Sq Mtr,that was 3 months ago , I do not know what the pries are now,it could be more it could be less. Garage spaces normally go for 35-45,000 PLN per unit and balconies are normally priced at 25% per cent of 1 Sq Mtr. I sent you the link if you are interested give them a call and get the details first hand.

Here is a link for new build apartments in Krakow.

wbj.tabelaofert.com/offers,,type,flat,market,primary,country,poland,city,krakow
OP Piotr123 1 | 49
14 Sep 2010 #15
High end can mean different things to different people, what is it you expect?

I'm looking to buy an apartment in a building of the same standard as the Garden Residence. The other projects you linked to seem interesting also. I will visit Krakow next week to try to see a selection of apartments. Do you have any other suggestions? It is important though that the apartment is centrally located.

Here is a link for new build apartments in Krakow.

Most of the projects are far from being completed, and I want the apartment to be ready by the end of this year.

The prices were in the region of 8,500 PLN per Sq Mtr,that was 3 months ago , I do not know what the pries are now,it could be more it could be less.

I know it is common for garage spaces to be sold in countries such as India, but I have never heard of it being done in Europe before. Is it possible to receive a passive income from the garage space? In India the property management company can rent out the garage space.

I find it hard to believe that the demand for garage space in Krakow is so high. In Stockholm it is usually not a problem to find a parking space in the city centre during peak hours. Now Tokyo, that is a different story! You cannot even own a car there without first having your own parking space.
poland_
14 Sep 2010 #16
I know it is common for garage spaces to be sold in countries such as India, but I have never heard of it being done in Europe before. Is it possible to receive a passive income from the garage space? In India the property management company can rent out the garage space.

Yes you can rent it out, but remember the first day you become a buyer,you become a seller and the person that buys from you in the future will want a garage space.

I find it hard to believe that the demand for garage space in Krakow is so high. In Stockholm it is usually not a problem to find a parking space in the city centre during peak hours. Now Tokyo, that is a different story! You cannot even own a car there without first having your own parking space.

Krakow is not Stockholm or Tokyo, it is Krakow. Why a garage space- car theft- extreme weather in the winter, do you really want to get up and leave to go to the office and have to dig half a meter of snow from your car. The list goes on but it is so obvious why you would want to buy a garage space.

I'm looking to buy an apartment in a building of the same standard as the Garden Residence. The other projects you linked to seem interesting also. I will visit Krakow next week to try to see a selection of apartments. Do you have any other suggestions? It is important though that the apartment is centrally located.

Piotr123, we are not real estate agents, you are going to find out in Poland that knowledge has a very high price in the country. We have given you a good leg up, now it is time for you to pick up the phone and do some research buddy.
OP Piotr123 1 | 49
15 Sep 2010 #17
I will give a report after my visit for the benefit of anyone else who might be interested in buying an apartment in Krakow. Also, I want to thank everyone for the advice you have provided me!
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
15 Sep 2010 #18
I know it is common for garage spaces to be sold in countries such as India, but I have never heard of it being done in Europe before.

It is normal to buy garage spaces in ex-commie countries, I don't think they are that easy to let out but as warszawski says, the next buyer will want one and they are very handy especially during winter.

Are you aware that when you buy a new build apartment in Poland (or any other ex-commie country) that it is not finished.
There are no kitchens, toilets, sinks, flooring, no paint on the walls or ceiling, sometimes no internal doors in the apartment?
dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007
15 Sep 2010 #19
Also no windows, no gas, no heating, even no external walls! It's all made up ;)
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
15 Sep 2010 #20
I have seen two story houses for sale with no stairs.

Actually I am surprised the mentality hasn't changed yet. Think about it, it will always be cheaper, quicker and cleaner for the developer to buy 500 toilets and install them than for an individual buyer to buy and install one.

Apart from that there is the problem of when you do move in, your neighbours are still finishing their apartments for the next few years... Banging, drilling, etc from 6a.m. till 22p.m. and not forgetting weekends!

And what I find strangest of all, is that it is not the developer that hasn't changed, it's the majority of buyers.
dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007
15 Sep 2010 #21
Banging, drilling, etc from 6a.m. till 22p.m. and not forgetting weekends!

Thats what happened in my old place, we moved in and were one of the first in the new block...months afterwards we had to put up with being woken up at 6am to the sound of drilling ect :(
Harry
15 Sep 2010 #22
I have seen two story houses for sale with no stairs.

I know somebody who bought a split level apartment which had no stairs joining the two floors.
recoil - | 26
15 Sep 2010 #23
Actually I am surprised the mentality hasn't changed yet.

Why should it change? Why do you assume that the 'ex-commie countries' approach is worse?

Think about it, it will always be cheaper, quicker and cleaner for the developer to buy 500 toilets and install them than for an individual buyer to buy and install one.

People prefer to have their flats finished according to their own taste or vision. It's not a matter of cheapness, quite the opposite actually.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
15 Sep 2010 #24
Why should it change? Why do you assume that the 'ex-commie countries' approach is worse?

I have answered this twice already.

Again, just for you recoil:

1) The cost is higher for individuals to install their own toilets etc.

2) The continuous drilling and banging from your neighbours for years after you have bought your place.

And one more for good luck, you have just bought an apartment but it is not finished, you can not live there, it is ridiculous.

People prefer to have their flats finished according to their own taste or vision. It's not a matter of cheapness, quite the opposite actually.

This is the usual answer I get, it's nonsense. so everyone goes down to Castorama and buys there, no real choice.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
15 Sep 2010 #25
Actually I am surprised the mentality hasn't changed yet.

During the good old commie days, you got your apartment (if you got it at all) furnished with exactly the same fittings, toilet, toilet seat, bathtub etc., as everyone else living in the same block, or indeed street. Maybe even town. Cheap, ugly, and nothing on the market to replace them with. So people will continue to want to have a say in what their apartment ultimately looks like for a long time to come, my friend.
poland_
15 Sep 2010 #26
Most of the projects are far from being completed, and I want the apartment to
be ready by the end of this year.

If you buy directly from a developer you will not incur the 2% tax

2) The continuous drilling and banging from your neighbours for years after you have bought your place.

The Polish say,once the keys have been handed over, it takes five years before the building works end.

People prefer to have their flats finished according to their own taste or vision. It's not a matter of cheapness, quite the opposite actually.

I have never met a Polish person that does not think, the cheapest way is the best way...
Bzibzioh
15 Sep 2010 #27
This is the usual answer I get, it's nonsense. so everyone goes down to Castorama and buys there, no real choice.

Not really. I saw 3 apartments in Krakow recently. All were designed by interior designer and finished with high class materials. They looked spectacular.
poland_
15 Sep 2010 #28
The only worry with that ,is when it comes time to sell you will only get the same price as your neighbor. I visited a apartment about 10 years ago in Warsaw, the couple told me they had spent 100,000 Euro on their bathroom, it was big and very very nice, 10 years down the line, it is very dated and needs to be redone, so you could say money down the toilet. Both of the people were involved in real estate, you would have thought they had known better.
Bzibzioh
15 Sep 2010 #29
they had spent 100,000 Euro on their bathroom,

Kitchens and bathrooms are the most expensive rooms in the house so they are worthy of splurging on. 100,000 Euro investment in the bathroom might not necessarily be over the top, however you have to choose your style wisely - nothing outrageous, something appealing to most of potential buyers. I personally would invest that kind of money in the house I plan to stay in for many years, but to in the apartment I plan to flip soon.
poland_
16 Sep 2010 #30
For 150,000 euro you can build a very nice 300 sq mtr house, of course this price does not include land and finishing.


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