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Poland Agent refuses to let me see their tenancy agreement unless I sign to pay their fee


InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
24 Nov 2012 #1
Quite bizarre? I thought so. I asked the agent if I could see a blank or specimen tenancy agreement for a flat they are offering.

They said nie, by email.

I can not do this before you will sign agency agreement.

Their agency agreement asks that I give all my details and agree to give them 60% of the first month's rent I pay on any flat I rent from them, and that fee is due within 3 days or they charge me interest.

In other words, I need to sign that I agree to a tenancy agreement before I have even seen it.

If that's the usual way of operating among licensed estate agents here, I will only deal directly with landlords.
pip 10 | 1,659
24 Nov 2012 #2
that is a bit strange. I have seen a few places with a broker (property whoore) and they don't normally tell you where it is but you also don't have to sign anything until you decide to rent. This is yet another reason why residential agents are terrible in this country. so unprofessional.
OP InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
24 Nov 2012 #3
Well, I haven't viewed the flat yet because I want to see what the tenancy agreement says because some of them have clauses about monthly inspections and other stuff that I don't find acceptable, so don't want to waste my or an agent's time viewing a flat with that sort of agreement. All they have sent me is an agreement where I agree to pay them fees and 60% of the rent is the main fee (at the commencement). When I emailed them again to say that it's not their agency fee agreement that I want but the tenancy agreement (something I clearly emailed asking for in the first place) they sent me the above one-liner reply.

There is no way I would advise any person to sign any agreement with a trader when part of what they are signing for is unknown. At worst, you could be taken for fees and at best they have your personal data and a copy of your signature for no good reason.
enkidu 7 | 623
24 Nov 2012 #4
That is hilarious!
I wonder how many people agree to sign agreement they don't read? Come on..

On the second thought... Probably a lot of people. Losers are born every day.
Zibi - | 336
24 Nov 2012 #5
The agencies are usually uninterested in tenancy agreements. That will be given to you for review/negotiation by the lessor, when you get to know him/her. However, you won't get to know the lessor until after you have signed the agency agreement which is the way for the agency to ensure they get their fee, instead of duping them by dealing directly with the lessor, thus completely excluding the agency from the process. I am not saying this is your intention, but it has been for many others, and that is how agencies protect their interests.
irishlodz 1 | 135
24 Nov 2012 #6
An agent last year asked us to sign a similar document regarding a land purchase. She refused to show us the land unless we signed, giving her a fee on the purchase. When we did she then added the address of the property, AFTER we had signed. Altering a contract without consent after it is completed, I laughed! Even in Poland this cannot be legally enforceable. I videoed the whole thing.

These agents/brokers are cancerous scum. The Polish Gov need to bring in a law mandating the seller pays all fees, like the rest of the civilised world. Until then these quasi-criminals will continue to trade with impunity.
Zibi - | 336
24 Nov 2012 #7
The Polish Gov need to bring in a law mandating the seller pays all fees

I agree with that.
Wroclaw Boy
24 Nov 2012 #8
so they want you to sign a non disclosure agreement as theyre worried if you dont you'll go straight to the owner, thus losing them a deal/commission?

Still doesnt have a bearing on the rental contract if they blank out the addresses and stuff. pretty silly, perhaps you should be crystal clear on your motive.
jon357 67 | 17,031
24 Nov 2012 #9
Quite bizarre? I thought so. I asked the agent if I could see a blank or specimen tenancy agreement for a flat they are offering.

Beyond bizarre. There can't be any good reason for them to want you to sign a contract you haven't seen. You should avoid them like the plague.
OP InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
24 Nov 2012 #10
so they want you to sign a non disclosure agreement as theyre worried if you dont you'll go straight to the owner, thus losing them a deal/commission?

I've already told them I don't want any owner details - just a specimen contract (so I can see what sort of barrel they want me over) :o)

The Polish Gov need to bring in a law mandating the seller pays all fees,

They are working on doing that now in the UK - rental agents in the UK have been charging both sides, just as they do here.

instead of duping them by dealing directly with the lessor, thus completely excluding the agency from the process.

I've told them to remove any details of the landlord etc - I just want to see what their contract looks like. Most agencies in the UK have one standard contract, known as an Assured Shorthold Tenancy agreement which has to comply with a housing law. Clauses can be inserted but may not be valid (covered by the Unfair Contract Terms Act). I wanted to see what terms the agent wanted for that flat before I wasted my time or theirs and viewed it.

This was their further reply today, exactly copied from their email:

You do not pay before, but each agency has his tenancy agreement. I will not show you mine beor I will not have agency agreement. I know that bitish market is different.

this two agreements are different. now you are not my client becouse we do not have agency agremment, thats why I do not see reason to make you tenancy agreement.

I do tenancy agreement for each client: you see flat (no payment), you agree to rent it (no payment) but you want (for example) owner to take the furniture away - I fill it in the t. agreement. I prepare t. agreement for one customer each time, I do not have tamplate.

I do not give each one who ask me via mail for t. agreement.

you pay me when you sign (with owner) agreement. In Poland we do not one of the side of agreement (like in GB), we just help to go trought all operation of renting.

plan is:

1. agency agreement - that means you want to pay me if you rent a flat I will show/find for you
2. you choose one flat and want to rent it - I prepare t. agrement for you and owner (as both of you wish but at the same time correct in respect of law)
3. you and owner sign it - I make photos, check clocks (water, elect. etc.)
4. you have flat and pay me

that how it works in Poland.

I know that in UK agency is like an owner, but in Poland I'm not allowed to do this unless owner give me special document, but almost nobody want to do this.

Beyond bizarre. There can't be any good reason for them to want you to sign a contract you haven't seen. You should avoid them like the plague.

I can only very vaguely see the agency's point, and I mean very vaguely, so I am going to avoid them just as you suggest. (Because the agency must know the terms the landlord has in mind and the specifics, to say they don't know at this stage sounds like nonsense. It sounds far more likely that the reasons for their secrecy are to my disadvantage.)
Zibi - | 336
24 Nov 2012 #11
Your agency's response seems quite reasonable to me and confirms that which I was saying. I'd say you bear no risk signing agency agreement and seeing/reviewing a tenancy agreement at a later stage when you have actually selected a particular place for yourself.
OP InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
24 Nov 2012 #12
Signing a document without knowing what is in the pipeline is out of the question. An agent should be prepared to show a prospective tenant a typical tenancy agreement and it is highly unlikely they'd have no idea what clauses a client landlord would want included.

Had I have asked for the landlord's name and address I could see their point. That I just asked for a specimen agreement to be shown to me and all I got in return was a form to fill in promising them my money, says it all. Case closed.

phrases.org.uk/meanings/a-pig-in-a-poke.html
polishinvestor 1 | 362
3 Jan 2016 #13
Its possible the letting agent didn't want to show a copy of the tenancy agreement as it will have contained details of the property's owner, from which you could then "by-pass" the letting agent and get straight in touch with the owner. Even for a basic residential flat it will save you anywhere from a quarter to a full months rent and it will save the owner at least one months rent + vat. So strong incentives for people to try to by pass the agency (and why photos on websites are mostly taken from the inside, so you cant work out where the property is). So they probably had no way of showing you the paperwork without the risk of reading the owners details. That said, they should be able to pass on the main details or at least blank out certain lines in the contract and photocopy. Agents are very hit and miss. And very "competitive" towards each other. Worse than between Polish taxi drivers and thats talking from experience of dealing with both professions.


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