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Luksa - Big problems with developer in Lwowska, Krakow


thedom 1 | 7
4 Mar 2008 #1
Anyone out there trying to buy property in Krakow through a builder called Luksa. We (3 Irish guys) are being screwed big time. We signed preliminary agreements in 2006 with relevant solicitor agreements and notarial sign off and paid 10% deposit and now the builder is now claiming that he can't get planning permit for our three apartments. We assume he is trying to offload us from the deal so that he can sell on and get a higher price. Our Polish solicitor is dealing with the issue but the builder is resolute in claimimg that there is no building permit. For some reason we cannot legally check out whether or not he even applied for a permit or whther this is a scam similar to the Bud Mar trails I have been reading on this site. How did that resolve itself. Anyone else in same boat.
silooy
8 Mar 2008 #2
Did your agreement state that the project was conditional on receiving local building permission (most development contracts do in my experience) if yes, then there is not much you can do, but presumably you should get your 10% back if your contract was worded correctly.
andy b 4 | 156
19 Mar 2008 #3
I work for a real estate agency here in Krakow. We had two clients invest in this development with Luksa (called 'Lwowska Residence'). I am not sure the reasoning behind the developer not wanting to proceed with this investment. More than likely they sold it too cheaply in the first place, and either want to sell on the plot or resell the apartments at higher prices. Obviously, this is a developer not to be trusted. My advice to you is to try and get your money back, and then move on. One of our clients has already been paid his money back (plus a penalty), and the other one should have his money back shortly.

Regarding your question about Bud Mar and it's investment nearby ('Adonis Residence' I think it is called). Well, they are very close to delivering the finished apartments. Very late, but at least the clients will get what they paid for, unlike Lwowska Residence
OP thedom 1 | 7
19 Mar 2008 #4
I appreciate your thoughts. Our solicitor is trying to first of all establish whether he has the funds to repay us our deposits plus penalty. I'd be interested to find out in your opinion what would the developer do if we just hung on in there - could he sell on to third party or resell at higher price while we were still refusing to sign any agreement cancelling our preliminary agreement. ITs a real shame cause we (3 in total) have lost over 2 years growth and Lwowska is such a nice spot.

Did your clients negotiate an 'amicable termination' fee from Luksa in addition to the fixed 20% penalty. If so how much?
I still would like to know what happens if we refuse to sign termination and just hang on - do we risk losing all?
erangeyjj
24 Mar 2008 #5
I terminated the contract and am due to receive repayment on the 1st of April to include deposit (plus 20%) and any expenses incurred. My suggestion would be to immediately cancel your contract. At this stage I wouldn't believe anything what this developer says. You would be brave to hang on.
Guest
7 Apr 2008 #6
Just to keep you updated. I was due to get my deposit back plus compensation by the 2nd April 2008. I followed the correct procedure and went through a notary accompanied by a lawyer to cancel the contract with the agreement also being signed by a representative of LUKSA. As expected they did not pay anything.
hullo
8 Apr 2008 #7
As expected they did not pay anything.

What made you think they would??? Once a company is going bad, the directors make sure the funds are taken out and put into overseas accounts and try getting blood from a stone. Luksa is not the only company having problems!
LwowskaKrakow 28 | 431
12 Apr 2008 #8
. Our Polish solicitor is dealing with the issue but the builder is resolute in claimimg that there is no building permit.

What are you doing guys?Why don't you go to court with your lawyer?
These bandits/developers have to stop ripping off people!
They claim they don't have a buiding permit? Then just wait until they get it!
They cannot breach the contract unless you accept.
They will sell the flats 3 times what they warranteed you would pay, for sure.
The only problem is that you have to be ready to wait for a long long time before getting your flats.But you should stick to them and shake the city! Go to the mayor! Write to Donald Tusk and some newspapers!

I am one of the buyers from Lwowska Krakow/Bud Mar and we are still waiting after almost 3 years!
OP thedom 1 | 7
14 Apr 2008 #9
Good advice but will it work. We were informed by legal rep that in the interim there is no guarantee that Luksa won't sell investment to third party and the third party could change original plans (the project of the new third party developer may be completely different from original). In that case, the conclusion of the promised contract would be impossible.

Don't mind sitting it out if it takes that to get apartment.

I heard a rumour that demolition had started onsite -any truth in that. Did you get your money back + 20% yet?
erangeyjj
29 Apr 2008 #10
No money yet. I was told that Luksa were to draw down a mortgage at the start of April to allow them to make payments. For the past 3 weeks I am being told that they are going to pay next week, getting the runaround. I sent the cancellation contract to my lawyer today and I am waiting for them to get back to me with information on what I can do next. I will keep you posted....
Guest
2 May 2008 #11
Hi Guys,

Hopefully after several months of troubles with Mr. Liszka finally I got back my money (even 2 weeks longer than was written in the contract).
Luksa paid me deposit + 20% penalty + cost of contract and agency fee !

So NEVER again anybody with LUKSA, PAWO (clone of LUKSA) and Mr. Liszka !!!
Wroclaw Boy
2 May 2008 #12
Glad to hear it although it sounds as though Mr Liszka still made a sizeable profit taking into consideration the massive capital appreciation sustained in krakow from when you placed your deposit till now.

Is the development still being built?
Guest
2 May 2008 #13
It seems that Mr Liszka is trying to sell it

allegro.pl/show_item.php?item=335381130

From my previous investigation it seems to be very difficult to build there anything because of neighbours protest - the "Lwowska Residence" building is too high and it will make shadow to the neighbours residence ...

The pity is that Mr. Liszka is fully aware of it this problem and he used investors and now he wants to sell this **** to others !!!!
OP thedom 1 | 7
7 May 2008 #14
If demolition has started - who is doing it and surely demolition can't start without agreement on what is going to be built there. Can anyone ascertain for me if this is Lwowska Residence site being demolished.
erialc43 1 | 36
7 May 2008 #15
This fiasco does worry me.
Where are all the positive aspects of buying property in Poland?
C
inkrakow
7 May 2008 #16
some of the positive aspects are now sitting in my bank account...
you'll get dodgy developers everywhere, particularly if you don't want to/can't come over and get involved.
erialc43 1 | 36
7 May 2008 #17
I am thinking of moving to Poland for 6-12 months, renting initially, see how the land lies, and possibly buy an appartment once I am happy with everything.

What advice would you give me?
Claire
inkrakow
7 May 2008 #18
Buy now while prices are depressed and buyers are thin on the ground.
chappers - | 2
8 May 2008 #19
Morning all,

just found this link and we are in Lwowska as well ! our lawyer has been chasing and chasing Luska for months to get some sort of answers, they 'lost' our expenses claim more times than i care to remember. We have set them a deadline of 15th May and then we're taking them to court... another lengthy process im told. On the up side, Im assured by our lawyer that they cannot sell the land as certainly we did and im sure others did register our interests on the land registry. I think the money will come back at some point, but probably only when the developer wants to either sell or pull his finger out and actually build something there.

This is a real shame because we have some other investments in Krakow that have done very well indeed, you win some you lose some i guess !
Guest
8 May 2008 #20
Hello again,

I will check the status of existing building of Lwowska, but I'm sure nothing happened there. There are several people living still in this building and last year even I noticed that they replaced old windows for the new one (just guess who will invest his own money while he knows that building will be destroyed).

Mr. Liszka is lying and promising faster than he's breathing ;)

The only one solution is to call him as often as possible - sometimes I called him twice per day all the week !

You need to be very careful because now of course they can't sell land, but if you will agree to terminate agreement they usually setting long payment time so it is possible to sell it in mean time and then money will disappear :(

Normally Developer is proud of his brand name but they ( Liszka and Co) are dealing with 4 - 5 different names and always they are selling apartments through the real-estate agency in order to not have so many people in their fake office ...

BTW: have you guys been in their office ? - Amazing 2 secretary working for dozen of different companies like Luksa, Pawo, etc in parallel ;)

there is even no Luksa logo at the entrance of the office and door
OP thedom 1 | 7
11 May 2008 #21
Thay are trying to sell the development but it was unsuccesful at auction. We 3 are sticking our ground for now. Our names are on the register of land and mortgages for that site. The only way out for us is a healthy settlement or he builds what he promised us according to our orginal agreement. Lets keep all interested parties posted of anything new regarding this development using this posting thread.

Later
LwowskaKrakow 28 | 431
11 May 2008 #22
BTW: have you guys been in their office ? - Amazing 2 secretary working for dozen of different companies like Luksa, Pawo, etc in parallel ;)

Wow incredible ! Dozen of different companies ...Such a dishonest way of conduct business should really be punished.
They are some real bandits in the Krakow Real Estate and development industry.
Naive buyers should be informed about the good and bad developers .
Where is their office?( The Luksa office?)
Guest
14 May 2008 #23
I was informed my an estate agent that some demolition has started on site

contact details

Grupa Inwestycyjna Pawo sp. z o.o.
ul. Wielopole 18B, 31-072 Kraków

NIP: 676-23-00-867
REGON: 120084120
KRS: 0000241966

ING BANK ŚLĄSKI O/Kraków
98 1050 1445 1000 0022 9512 1780

tel. (0048 12) 429 37 11
fax (0048 12) 294 44 92

e-mail: biuro@pawokrakow.pl

Internet: pawokrakow.pl
Guest
16 May 2008 #24
seems Luksa does not want their location known. pawokrakow.pl is no longer available as the DNS, website, was deleted 2008-05-16 16:12:14 MEST as per internet page dns.pl/deleted_domains.txt

have a look at the following forum discussing Grupa Inwestycyjna Pawo (LUKSA)

forum.gazeta.pl/forum/72,2.html?f=778&w=54286156
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
16 May 2008 #25
have a look at the following forum discussing Grupa Inwestycyjna Pawo (LUKSA)

I am sorry but I do not speak Polish well enough, could you give us the gist of the discussion, please.
Guest
16 May 2008 #26
DOMAIN:pawokrakow.pl is undergoing verification
created:2007.05.15 14:14:07
last modified:2007.05.29
option: the domain name has not option

REGISTRAR:
Grupa Onet.pl SA
ul. G. Zapolskiej 44
30 - 126 Kraków
Polska/Poland
+48. 12 2600200
bok@onet.pl
Guest
25 May 2008 #27
forum.gazeta.pl/forum/72,2.html?f=778&w=54286156

Sean, - its discussion about clone of Luksa - Pawo company, which have exactly similar situation like with Lwowska investment ...

It seems that their finansial "piramide" collapsed now due to general problem with real estate investment - no new customers so they are lack of money now ;)
OP thedom 1 | 7
27 Jun 2008 #28
Any truth in the rumour that Luksa have obtained planning permission for Lwowska development in Krakow - if so how do we verify?
chappers - | 2
1 Jul 2008 #29
Hello everyone,

we have heard that demolition is now underway on site, this information came from Neodom, has anyone heard anything new or can confirm this is the case.

many thanks.
Guest
10 Jul 2008 #30
have a look at the following forum discussing Grupa Inwestycyjna Pawo (LUKSA)

forum.gazeta.pl/forum/72,2.html?f=778&w=54286156

Look have you read this forum carefully. People are telling you not to trust Luksa as they are conmen. They are operating a sort of pyramid scheme. They and Neodom are the only ones making money here. I am sure your lawyer has advised you on what course of action to take. If you have any business sense then invest somewhere else. This other forum above refers to another development of Grupa Pawo (Luksa) that Neodom had originally on their books. After the Lwowska debacle they removed it. This has now been repackaged as a new development and is being sold by Neodom. I wouldn't have much faith in Neodom as they are making money either way.


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