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Should Poles help Germans organize protests demanding free media ?


dolnoslask
12 Jan 2016 #61
I was never sure what kind of immigrant you were harry, so did not want to offend by trying to be over specific. yes in your case you would not need vetting.

Polish immigration law is what it is unless the government changes it.

I personally think the law fair, especially when you take into account Poland's difficult history.

Must say that I don't agree with a "wherever I lay my hat that's my home" policy, look at the chaos in Germany.
G (undercover)
12 Jan 2016 #62
Another voice on censorship in Germany. "We should monitor freedom of speech in Germany".

wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,141202,title,Mariusz-Staniszewski-powinnismy-monitorowac-wolnosc-slowa-w-Niemczech,wid,18097147,wiadomosc.html?ticaid=116498&_ticrsn=5
dolnoslask
12 Jan 2016 #63
Very good post G undercover, anyone following this thread should read the article, it goes on to talk about the Germans exporting this insanity to other nations, It appears that the reality is that the German population are not being informed about what is going on in their own country. at least the free polish media is trying to inform the German people about what is really going on.
Ironside 49 | 10,010
12 Jan 2016 #64
Poland hands out passports to people who have never set foot in Poland (and whose parents never have either) but denies them to people who have never left Poland (and whose parents have never left Poland).

You seems to be running in circles and talking an utter tripe in lieu of a genuine arguments Quiqui. Pobrecito chiquito cannot help himself.
dolnoslask
12 Jan 2016 #65
" people who have never set foot in Poland "

Yes sadly their parents had been deported to concentration camps and then forced to live in exile because their country was occupied by a foreign force, no surprise that these children might wish to come home to a free Poland one day, could any pole or government deny them this right.
Harry
12 Jan 2016 #66
That's a right the Karta Polakow gives them. The only reason that they'd need a Polish passport (without bothering to first live in Poland for a few years) would be if they wanted to legally migrate to Germany or the UK or other EU states.
dolnoslask
12 Jan 2016 #67
"The only reason that they'd need a Polish passport (without bothering to first live in Poland for a few years) would be if they wanted to legally migrate to Germany or the UK or other EU states"

Wrong some of us are using our polish passports to buy back farm land in Poland to farm and live on, the way our fathers did.
Crow 137 | 7,858
12 Jan 2016 #68
Should Poles help Germans organize protests demanding free media ?

no. It would be understand as act of weaklings, worldwide. Poles should look after their own business, rather then humiliating itself. Nothing won`t change German feelings on Poles
Ziemowit 12 | 3,674
13 Jan 2016 #69
Now who could have foreseen that happening?

It was forseen here on the PolishForums, but those forseeing it were just labelled racist twats who had no future ahead of them while those representing the liberal and progressive Europe were marching very fast to achieve their goals of integration.

before many Poles realise that a nation which sends out millions of immigrants may wish to take a somewhat more enlightened view with regard to immigrants.

The "problem" with the Poles in the UK, for example, is that they are very likely to become undistinguishable from the local population in the next generation, whereas many Muslims in France or many Turks in Germany do not want to integrate and no "multiculti" is going to help them. The cultural difference is simply too big.

this was allowed to happen

This was allowed to happen since it was happening in democratic countries with free media in the free western world. Could it have also happened in Poland which is presently under the brutal dictatorship of PiS of which fact the German politicians complain so much? This is a question to which every PF-er must answer themselves.
Wroclaw1010 3 | 91
13 Jan 2016 #70
I find the title of this post is quite amusing. The PiS government just manipulated the legislation in their favour to get rid of the management of state own media houses, just because those media houses are seen as being biased towards them. This just happened in 'our' own backyard yet we are teasing a country of losing its media freedom because it delayed in the reportage on a particular incident. Is it not contrasting?
NocyMrok
13 Jan 2016 #71
Everybody knew that allowing Muslim savage into Europe will have the very exact consequences. It always had. France, Germany, UK. All those countries suffered from that in the past but so called West still doesn't do homework. Europe is like an infant now. Limited, ignorant and plain dumb handicapped further by tolerance and PC "utopian ideologies". Can't call anyone "advanced" if he's stupid enough to invite rapists and murderers into their home.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,674
13 Jan 2016 #72
yet we are teasing a country of losing its media freedom because it delayed in the reportage on a particular incident

A very unimortant incident,indeed, the reporting of which could be delayed for four days. All this in a country where much more trivial incidents are reported instantly and with a lot of noise around them.
Wulkan - | 3,251
13 Jan 2016 #73
just because those media houses are seen as being biased towards them.

Do you disagree with it?
Wroclaw1010 3 | 91
13 Jan 2016 #74
Do you consider it democratically viable?
Wulkan - | 3,251
13 Jan 2016 #75
So you agree with it
TheOther 6 | 3,999
13 Jan 2016 #76
This was allowed to happen since it was happening in democratic countries with free media in the free western world.

And then the German media and the police were forced into line. Parallels in Poland?
OP Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
13 Jan 2016 #78
The PiS government just manipulated the legislation in their favour to get rid of the management of state own media houses

They changed the management of the public media just like all previous governments did, how they are going to operate after changes is to be seen, the worst case scenario is "the same crap as before". Besides, public media in Poland, that's like ~20% of TV market, ~5% in case of radio and 0% in case of press and internet. Overall like 10% of the media as TV is dying out and internet is growing. With that market share, government trying to make the public media "pro-gov" is just shooting itself in the foot.

In case of Germany, it turns out that government is able to control all the mainstream media over there, something that would totally impossible in Poland. Without internet we would never hear about the recent "events". And in case you didn't notice, there has been not a single day recently without Gerries lecturing Poland on "democratic values", "free speech" etc. While in fact there have it far worse at home. It's like Pol Pot was criticizing Putin for being too brutal.
NocyMrok
13 Jan 2016 #79
In addition most of people in media left by resignation not by being forced to do so.
Paulina 9 | 1,448
13 Jan 2016 #80
No different than most nightclubs/danceclubs in Poland every weekend.

Are you f*cking kidding me?!!!
Are you saying that one woman (and even a 15 year old girl!) dancing in a nightclub/danceclub in Poland is surrounded by a group of 30 drunken men, immobilized and touched everywhere including on her crotch, terrified so much that she thinks she's going to be raped in the middle of the dancefloor and noone will even notice that or be able to help or that she's even going to die there? And then her cellphone and money are being stolen? And this, according to you, happens every weekend in nightclubs/danceclubs to hundreds of women in Poland?

Are you sick in the head?

I'm not making light of anything.

Of course you are. You completely downplayed it by comparing it to what could be happening in some danceclubs. What happened in Cologne resembles more what was happening in Tahrir Square in Egypt rather than in Polish nightclubs/danceclubs.

But I do think it's pretty f*ckin stupid that every refugee gets tarred with the same brush coz of the actions of some boozed-up idiots.

Then that's what you should write and not downplay sexual attacks on women that are regarded by Cologne Mayor as "monstrous".

You know, that's the problem I have with people like you. Such retarded comments. The same was with jon357 and his comment about Bavarian girls. In order to defend innocent refugees you're turning into misogynists or you're downplaying stuff or completely turning a blind eye. This is doing more damage than good and you're doing a disservice to refugees and immigrants in this way. Just like it was done in Rotherham and by German police and media after New Year's Eve attacks. You and the police and the media are viewed then as unreliable and not credible and this pushes people into the arms of far right groups and nationalist media.

If I as a woman got pi$$ed by one or two comments on an internet forum then imagine how German women must be feeling now.

And as for media and to back up what I just wrote - in the latest "Drugie śniadanie mistrzów" ("The Second Breakfast of Masters") that I've watched on TVN24 the host Marcin Meller said that his female acquaintance from Sweden entered some far right Swedish sites for the first time in her life... in order to get to know what happened in Sweden. The discussion starts at 33:55:

tvn24.pl/drugie-sniadanie-mistrzow,40,m/drugie-sniadanie-mistrzow,609392.html

Also, Ilona £epkowska, a Polish screenwriter and writer, is saying there that she's not surprised by those attacks based on her and her daughters' experiences in Egypt.

And then the German media and the police were forced into line

I'm not sure if they had to be forced into line, to be honest, judging by what I've read from one guy I've been discussing for years on our Polish-Russian blog. Just to give you an idea who he is - he's a Polish liberal/leftist atheist. He's married to a German woman, he's a graphic designer and he's been living in Berlin for years now. He's very intelligent, well-travelled and well read. He wrote that Germans practice a kind of self-censorship. Not only politicians and the media but also many Germans.

But not everything is so hopeless with the German media, it seems. Last year I've watched this ZDF documentary, for example, "One Country - Two Worlds?":

youtube.com/watch?v=KVWAIKoatWM

ZDF is a public German TV station.
I would recommend watching this documentary to all those who seem to be wearing rose-tinted glasses and think there are no problems at all... And to everyone really, it's pretty interesting.

I'd just like to point out that sweeping problems under a carpet doesn't make those problems go away - those problems just grow bigger and bigger until you can't walk on the carpet anymore.

Here's another German documentary or maybe TV report:

youtube.com/watch?v=hmHLpp5uZ_k

It's about a German town (?) of 1800 inhabitants with 3500 refugees placed there. Inhabitants feel intimidated by groups of young men walking around. One woman says her daughter is afraid to walk the dog alone, she wants an adult to accompany her. Students have problems on the buses because a refugee center is near a school. But on a meeting of inhabitants of the town with the authorities one woman says that not only students have problems. She also has problems, she is being accosted and she's saying she doesn't want to be forced to fend off large groups of men.
Ironside 49 | 10,010
13 Jan 2016 #81
In case of Germany, it turns out that government is able to control all the mainstream media over there

Nah, it is not German government that is a controlling force, they are in cahoots together no question about that but controlling hands are above their pay grade in this case.

Are you sick in the head?

You hit the nail on the head here.
OP Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
14 Jan 2016 #82
KORWiN calls for debate in the European Parliament on the state of democracy and media censorship in Germany.

fakty.interia.pl/polska/news-janusz-korwin-mikke-o-decyzji-ke-wrzaski-wokol-tej-sprawy-sa,nId,1953713

Important: If you post a link to a non-English source, ALWAYS summarize / translate the relevant parts into English!
NocyMrok
14 Jan 2016 #83
KORWiN

Good. We'll see what EU will do about it because if they'll admit that one of the fundamental rules is being broken I see no reason why they shouldn't use the very same tool to watch Germany closely as they use for Poland. If they won't we will clearly see that some countries are more equal than other.
TheOther 6 | 3,999
14 Jan 2016 #84
KORWiN calls for debate in the European Parliament on the state of democracy and media censorship in Germany.

Smells like some childish attempt to retaliate.
NocyMrok
14 Jan 2016 #85
Smells like

Or like highlighting a country in which democracy has been compromised.
TheOther 6 | 3,999
14 Jan 2016 #86
Maybe, but very difficult to prove. The timing of Korwin's call was still off in my opinion. Doesn't help Poland a bit.
Wulkan - | 3,251
14 Jan 2016 #87
Are you f*cking kidding me?!!!

Nah, smurf is like that for real, his statements stopped shocking me long time ago.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,674
14 Jan 2016 #88
the German media and the police were forced into line.

Ha, ha, ha, forced into line? What the hell are "free" media in the "free" Western world (that set an example for Poland and other dumb Eastern European states) for, if they have to be "forced into line"?

You obviously didn't read Michele Houellebecq's book "Soumission" (Submission) and you obviously don't want to read it.
TheOther 6 | 3,999
14 Jan 2016 #89
What the hell are "free" media in the "free" Western world

Not free anymore...

Ha, ha, ha, forced into line?

Actually not something to laugh about. Unlike you, I am able to directly compare how independent the media seemed to be in the late 1980's (when I lived in Europe), and how horribly in line they appear now. It is frightning to watch how TV stations, newspapers and magazines across the board are suppressing negative news about the migrants/refugees, and how restrained the German police and judges are acting nowadays when they have to deal with muslims. You should've seen them during the years when the terror group RAF went on a killing spree throughout Germany. Heavy handed, to put it mildly. Why not now? Because their bosses are afraid that they are labeled Nazis when they go against the foreign thugs.

You obviously didn't read Michele Houellebecq's book "Soumission"

Is it worth it?
dolnoslask
16 Jan 2016 #90
German TV news article .

Attempted execution by stoning by 3 North African men on Transgender Women

At least the German media is starting to wake up. lets hope it is not too late.

Read more at liveleak.com/view?i=e49_1452943079#6Mok31DYx3tXTuRd.99


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