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After 77 years, Krakow school does the right thing


Harry
26 May 2017 #1
A school in Poland unveiled a plaque Tuesday that commemorates 87 Jewish girls who were expelled in 1939 during the Nazi occupation of the country.

abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/poland-school-honors-87-jewish-girls-expelled-nazis-47583540

Good to see the school doing the right thing, but why on earth has it taken them 77 years to do that?!

The event in Krakow is one in a growing number of efforts by teachers and children to commemorate the Jews who lived in Poland before the Holocaust, which was perpetrated by Nazi Germany largely in occupied Poland.

Commemorating all victims of the events during WWII is very good. I'm wondering why I haven't seen any Stolpersteine in Warsaw yet. I've seen them in Wroclaw, Vienna, Berlin, Prague, Bratislava, Budapest and Lviv, but not in Warsaw. Does anybody know why that is?
Bieganski 17 | 896
26 May 2017 #2
Does anybody know why that is?

Because Poles don't owe Jews anything; quite the reverse.
jon357 67 | 17,562
26 May 2017 #3
I haven't seen any Stolpersteine in Warsaw yet.

I gather there's discussion about creating one. The reason there isn't one yet, is that so much of the Holocaust took place here and so many horrors for the Jewish Poles in Warsaw neant that it was a case of 'where to begin'.
OP Harry
26 May 2017 #4
I gather there's discussion about creating one.

Got any details? I'd love to sponsor one myself. They're only EUR 120 each. The problem is that Demnig puts almost all of them in himself so I need to find a date when he's in Warsaw.

it was a case of 'where to begin'.

Anywhere on my street frankly.
jon357 67 | 17,562
26 May 2017 #5
It will be great when they finally do start to appear. It will obviously be huge here, given so many Jewish Poles who were lost.
Ironside 51 | 11,510
26 May 2017 #6
Commemorating all victims of the events during WWII is very good.

In Poland most buildings would have to be cover with plaques.

them 77 years to do that?!

Who gives a sh;;?
Lyzko 31 | 7,812
26 May 2017 #7
Who? Caring humans, Ironside, that's who!! If you're not one of them, kindly don't denigrate those who are, or, a la Shakespeare, do you really think that "conscience doth make cowards of us all"??
Ironside 51 | 11,510
26 May 2017 #8
Who? Caring humans

You're a spoiled brat Lzyko. Look at this hypocrite Harry and his selective memory and morals. Who cares about some stupit plague? Not Jews evidently. So who cares WHY they erected this plague after 77 years and not after 72 years. Do you Lzyko?
Lyzko 31 | 7,812
26 May 2017 #9
Apparently, a "spoiled brat" to you translates as "sensitive human being" vs. the sort of roughneck thugs you and your ilk hold up on a pedestal.

Better late than never, I say!
Ironside 51 | 11,510
26 May 2017 #10
a "spoiled brat" to you translates as "sensitive human being"

Yes a sensitive human being with this kind of sensitivity that realize the best in admonishing others from a safe distance.
Bieganski 17 | 896
26 May 2017 #11
So who cares WHY they erected this plague after 77 years and not after 72 years.

Such pedantic details gives Harry & Co. an excuse to get on their high horses and try to make it seem like Poland is to blame for what the Nazis did during WWII. Poland doesn't have to have plaques commemorating every Jew who ever walked on Polish soil. But according to the Zionist fanatics on here Poland most certainly does. And until Poland does then as far as they are concerned Poland must have been in on it with the Nazis all along. That's the mentality of their warped narcissistic cult.

They want a world where when the question gets asked how many people died in WWII the only response (and only acceptable response) will be 6 million Jews.
Lyzko 31 | 7,812
26 May 2017 #12
How safe is safe then? Need one necessarily throw oneself in front of a firing squad, merely to draw others' attention to injustice??

Not certain I take your point, much less understand it:-)

@Not exactly, Bieganski! Jews only want the record set straight, that's all! So what's your excuse? And by the by, while we're on the subject, just what do Jewish Poles owe gentile Poles precisely, I'm not sure I see what you're driving at here?
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,848
26 May 2017 #13
Jews only want the record set straight, that's all!

I think the record is pretty 'straight' by now don't you?
HOnestly when my children in the UK did WW2 history at junior school, you would think the only people who suffered were Jewish. That was how it was presented.

I don't mean any disrespect, but Stalin killed millions and so did Pol Pot. Among others.

And if you are still hung up on WW2 - what about the Polish slave labourers? What about the citizens of Dresden?
Was their suffering less valid?
Lyzko 31 | 7,812
26 May 2017 #14
In essence, rozumiemnic, I can only agree. No "disrespect" taken, ever. This is what an open forum ought to be about:-) Then there's the US-Native American thing etc....., the British starving the Boers... Right on.

The Holocaust though presents markedly different issues concerning both means as well as ends. Whereas, I've noted many times prior, Stalin allowed for his underlings to curry favor and grovel in order to allow them to live, where ol' Pol Pot murdered indiscriminantly and even Mao would spare the lives of landed overlords in so far as they relinquished their holdings and humbled their arroigance for the "people's good", Hitler permitted no such allowance for the Jews. Above all, FULL Jews anywhere within the Reich were automatically slated for annihilation, no exceptions. Service in the WWI, Iron Cross, Goethe's poetry above the bed, Wagner music blasting away to show what good German patriots many were, NOTHING could commute their inexorable death sentence in the most unspeakable manner imaginable.
Ironside 51 | 11,510
26 May 2017 #15
Not certain I take your point, much less understand it:-)

My point is about hypocrisy, crocodile tears and how such a person dismiss a good, selfless deed. It must be hate.

uch pedantic details gives Harry & Co. an excuse to get on their high horses and try to make it seem like Poland is to blame for what the Nazis did during WWII.

Indeed. That hate of a certain poster is clearly visible.

Jews only want the record set straight, t

You don't speak for all Jews Lzyko, not even for many. So kindly don't try to pull wool over our eyes. Some Jews are up to no good.
Lyzko 31 | 7,812
26 May 2017 #16
And some Poles weren't aka (still) aren't?? Who's being the blindsided hypocrite now? So, hypocrisy's only when Jews do it, but when "others" do it, then it's excusable, is that it?
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,848
26 May 2017 #17
anyway could I just say that my North London girls school had a Jew quota right into the late 70s.
Bieganski 17 | 896
26 May 2017 #18
just what do Jewish Poles owe gentile Poles precisely, I'm not sure I see what you're driving at here?

Humility and gratitude to start with followed by pleas for forgiveness as well as reparations.
Lyzko 31 | 7,812
26 May 2017 #19
We agree on that, anyway.
jon357 67 | 17,562
27 May 2017 #20
my North London girls school

Was that by any chance North London Collegiate School? The one that the late great Stevie Smith and Fenella Fielding (an amazing person, visits Warsaw sometimes) went to?

Hitler permitted no such allowance for the Jews.

Indeed. It was just killing on the basis of DNA.
OP Harry
27 May 2017 #21
pleas for forgiveness as well as reparations.

Interesting to see you think Jews owe non-Jewish Poles reparations. Interesting but sadly not at all surprising.

On reflection I'm not sure 'think' is the right word for a mental process that ends with deciding that Jews owe non-Jewish Poles reparations.
Ironside 51 | 11,510
27 May 2017 #22
nd some Poles weren't aka (still) aren't?

Kindly don't change the subject.. We're talking about Jews.

Who's being the blindsided hypocrite now?

I don't know why are you getting hot under your collar. Need I remind you it was you who said that Jews just want to set the record straight. Which might be true for some Jews but not for all.

It was just killing on the basis of DNA.

In 1936 they had no idea how to read the gentic code of DNA.. Plus there is no 'Jewish' DNA.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,848
27 May 2017 #23
Was that by any chance North London Collegiate School?

lol yes it was, how did you guess?
And Esther Rancid, Eleanor Bron, and Natasha Walter.
jon357 67 | 17,562
27 May 2017 #24
In 1936 they had no idea how to read the gentic code of DNA.. Plus there is no 'Jewish' DNA.

Don't be daft, I-S. It isn't big, it isn't clever and nobody's impressed.

The school in Kraków who've done this have definitely done the right thing. Honouring the dead is the correct thing to do.

lol yes it was, how did you guess?

Just the North London thing and the other (topic related) bit. A very slight acquaintance of mine (mentioned in post 20) went there. I gather it's a really decent school.
Ironside 51 | 11,510
27 May 2017 #25
Honouring the dead is the correct thing to do.

Yet your pal Harry twist it in his own sad and sour way. As you very well can see for your self.

Don't be daft

Why don't you take it with a tad of a good grace for once. You know I'm correct in this.
jon357 67 | 17,562
27 May 2017 #26
a good grace

Such an tawdry comment does not deserve grace, good or otherwise. You seem to be taking issue with those millions murdered because of their DNA and feel the need to interject your unpleasant theories into a thread about a school honouring its murdered alumni.
Ironside 51 | 11,510
27 May 2017 #27
You seem to be taking issue with those millions murdered

You know very well I take issue with your buddy Harry and his uncalled for sad and sour comment. His hate of Poles and Christians is hudge.The way you react to the truth of it is tawdry indeed.
Bieganski 17 | 896
27 May 2017 #28
Interesting to see you think Jews owe non-Jewish Poles reparations. Interesting but sadly not at all surprising.

It's completely unsurprising that you believe Jews don't owe Poles reparations. Another member put it best:

Look at this hypocrite Harry and his selective memory and morals.

Indeed. The forum has had innumerable discussions amounting to the need for Jews to seek forgiveness from and pay reparations to Poles. I'll gladly remind you that you above all have been the biggest advocate of the concept of "collective guilt" on here over the years so surely you agree that this applies equally to Jews.

It's been previously discussed how according to independent historical research Jews did in fact serve in the Nazi war machine which wrought destruction and death upon Poland. How many of these particular war criminals were ever brought to justice?

There is no denying the historically documented role of Jewish kapos in Nazi concentration camps on occupied Polish soil. How many of these particular war criminals were ever brought to justice?

It has been discussed extensively about the prominent role Jews willingly played in the Soviet security apparatus and kangaroo justice system which lead to the unjustified persecution, displacement, and death of Poles. How many of these particular criminals were ever brought to justice?

How many Jews ever protected Poles compared to documented instances of how many Poles risked their own lives and that of their families to protect Jews?

How many Jews abandoned Poland throughout the centuries following periods of invasion and destruction rather than stay and help rebuild?

You conveniently forget that Jews are not native to Poland and were graciously permitted to stay by Poles. History shows that they refused to integrate and only stuck around when it benefitted them.

Indeed, even the Zionist propaganda article you so proudly shared stated the following:

The task of tracking down girls was made especially difficult due to the fact that many of them changed their names...first taking on Hebrew names if they settled in Israel, and then changing surnames again upon marriage.

How nice of them to solipsistically move on and rebuild their own lives somewhere else. How nice of them to take land away from Palestinians rather than remain and help with the hard task of picking up the pieces in Poland. And now in your fanatical Jewish supremacist head they deserve a commemorative plaque back in Poland for merely sitting in a classroom once upon a time and even when one does goes up you still start moaning that it took Poles too long to put it there. Now that's what any sane person would describe as someone like you as suffering from an entitlement complex.
OP Harry
27 May 2017 #29
feel the need to interject your unpleasant theories into a thread about a school honouring its murdered alumni.

It is quite sad the way that some people use threads about schools honouring the past to vent. One can only conclude they're trying to make up for their inadequacies.
Lyzko 31 | 7,812
27 May 2017 #30
@Bieganski, your argument is purely specious! As you must know, the comparison between Jews and gentiles in Poland was hardly a level playing field; Jews, as always, were outnumbered by their Christian brethren. If they could have helped the latter were the tables turned and the situation reversed, you can bet your sweet ass the Jews would have helped defend their non-Jewish neighbors:-)

@Ironside, since when is a Jewish Pole not a Pole?? I also received a rather tilt reaction from another non-Jewish Pole from Lublin, when I asked about the percentage of Polish-Jewish students (if any) also attending the Catholic University. She replied quizzically that probably they would be attending the school for "foreign" studentsLOL This conversation took place a scant TWO years ago and Danuta was only twenty one. I wanted to ask politely whether a Jew born in Poland, with a Polish name, e.g. Romek Markowicz or the like, born in Lublin, educated at primary school there and knowing no other city, language or culture other than the Polish culture would still in her eyes be considered a "foreigner". I restrained myself however, being rather taken with her an all, and so decided not to pursue it. Coulda kicked myself after!! :-)


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