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Tusk wants to privatize PKP Cargo.


Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
8 Oct 2011 #1
Tusk wants to privatize PKP Cargo, which is the second largest railway cargo operator in EU, for EUR 400 million. The potential buyers are DB Schenker and Rossiyskie zheleznye dorogi. Please comment. Thank you.
antheads 13 | 366
8 Oct 2011 #2
The price is ridiculous , and the goverment should hold on to its assets, at least to subsidize the passenger side of things.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
8 Oct 2011 #3
Tusk wants to privatize PKP Cargo, which is the second largest railway cargo operator in EU, for EUR 400 million. The potential buyers are DB Schenker and Rossiyskie zheleznye dorogi. Please comment. Thank you.

Good good. It's been the cards for a while, and previous Governments have also been involved in the process (PiS, SLD) - so there should be no problem there.

The only important thing is to make sure that there are no barriers to other companies running freight operations in Poland, too. It should certainly not be the case that whoever buys PKP Cargo also buys a monopoly.

(incidentally, I see you're supporting Tusk in the election tomorrow, otherwise you wouldn't be posting such things)

The price is ridiculous , and the goverment should hold on to its assets, at least to subsidize the passenger side of things.

Why? What does the country need a rail freight operator for, with all the liabilities that come with it?

As for the passenger side of things - PKP Intercity is potentially very profitable, if only they were allowed to get rid of half of the trains. Placing a lot of the TLK connections with PKP Intercity was an exceptionally stupid idea - let Przewozy Regionalne die, the provinces will run their own services (KM, KW, KD, etc) and everyone will be happy.

(except, of course, those who view 700km journeys for 12.50 euro as a "human right")

they will sell everything - and it still won't save us from ending up like Greece - corrupt governments are like that (if someone says it was not corruption that drowned Greece just tell him to knock himself on the head a couple of times)

Actually, one big problem that Greece has at the minute is that there's a huge amount of corruption within State owned companies - they simply don't want to be sold because they won't be able to line their own pockets anymore.

Ask yourself - what use is PKP Cargo to the government?
gumishu 11 | 5,989
8 Oct 2011 #4
Tusk wants to privatize PKP Cargo, which is the second largest railway cargo operator in EU, for EUR 400 million. The potential buyers are DB Schenker and Rossiyskie zheleznye dorogi. Please comment. Thank you.

they will sell everything - and it still won't save us from ending up like Greece - corrupt governments are like that (if someone says it was not corruption that drowned Greece just tell him to knock himself on the head a couple of times)
Ironside 51 | 11,338
8 Oct 2011 #5
Down with bastard !Let sell him - but who would buy that good for nothing git?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
8 Oct 2011 #6
And yet you live in the country which pioneered privatisations in Europe...
Seanus 15 | 19,706
8 Oct 2011 #7
It doesn't come as a surprise, really. Still, Poland has to keep part of its traditional face. Privatisation is better in other areas.
OP Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
8 Oct 2011 #8
I see you're supporting Tusk in the election tomorrow, otherwise you wouldn't be posting such things

Not really, I'm not a fan of provatization of this kind...
Ironside 51 | 11,338
8 Oct 2011 #9
what kinds of pro-vitalization you are after then?:)

Take a good look at France, they doing all right with their state owned companies !Whats good for a goose....
OP Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
8 Oct 2011 #10
That was an unintentional typo but on the other hand how could one call privatization a transaction with DB Schenker or RZhD...
hythorn 3 | 580
8 Oct 2011 #11
privatization a transaction with DB Schenker

there is a thought, DB cattle trucks will be rolling again
Marek11111 9 | 816
8 Oct 2011 #12
it is another theft of polish citizens the assets needs to remain in people hands and Tusk needs to be thrown out or investigated why he wants to sell it who is paying him or what will he get after the presidency.

Politicians are the same everywhere all are criminals, I hope I see the revolution like French revolution.
sobieski 107 | 2,128
8 Oct 2011 #13
As for the passenger side of things - PKP Intercity is potentially very profitable, if only they were allowed to get rid of half of the trains

I do not agree. It is fundamentally wrong to keep only the profitable side of the business. All yhe branch lines, all the commuter trains...they also matter. Many towns depend (or rather live or die) on the commuter trains stopping there. That is where the EU got it wrong as well. And yes if Pan Kowalski after work has to get home at the 22:30 to the place he lives, this should be honored.

Because it goes like this: Posh IC trains make profit, grubby commuter trains do not. But these commuter trains move the backbone of the country. And yes they do not make a złoty. Must PKP only exist to move fat American tourists between Warsaw and whatever city they have no idea about?

No.
hythorn 3 | 580
8 Oct 2011 #14
But these commuter trains move the backbone of the country

an excellent point. particularly with the state of Polish roads
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
8 Oct 2011 #15
All yhe branch lines, all the commuter trains...they also matter.

They matter, but these should be run by the provinces, not by PKP Intercity. It's why Przewozy Regionalne is failing - they simply cannot run a network that keeps all the shareholders (the provinces) happy - which is why these services should by run by Mazowieckie/Dolnoslaskie/etc instead of one big national operator. Things are going that way as it is - but it's utter nonsense to have Przewozy Regionalne run long distance trains in direct competition with PKP Intercity, for instance.

The German model actually should be the one to aspire to, I think. They franchise out the branch lines, which are run by the best bidder - but they do not set fares or retain ticket revenue, they simply run the trains. It makes a hell of a lot of sense, and Poland is going in this direction - but not fast enough, no doubt due to all the lazy moustaches that work for Przewozy Regionalne.

I was on a local train recently that had THREE people checking tickets - on a four carriage train! Ridiculous overemployment...
sobieski 107 | 2,128
8 Oct 2011 #16
I do not care one *** if a fat Anerican gets from Warsaw to Kraków in 2 hours, 3 hours, or hopefully never. What matters is that PKP should perform a decent local service. Pan Kowalski after having worked all day in some Warsaw office, has the democratic right to get home by WKD/SKM/KM... whatever. And in a decent time. Invest in local connections, they will not get a return on investment. But hey, the Wall Street sharks did not get it either, may they rot in hell. Local railways serve the community. That is what matters in the end. Any SGH analyst should be shot now and then.
hythorn 3 | 580
8 Oct 2011 #17
Any SGH analyst should be shot now and then

exactly

shoot them twice
antheads 13 | 366
9 Oct 2011 #18
The only important thing is to make sure that there are no barriers to other companies running freight operations in Poland, too. It should certainly not be the case that whoever buys PKP Cargo also buys a monopoly.

This. And the fact the the goverment will be constantly subsidising pkp cargo through investments in rail infrastracture. Privatised Pkp Cargo will pay ridiculously low rates for usage of tracks as is the case now when owned by the goverment. This is good when both are owned by the goverment but not if one area is privatised. I will do some research on the polish rail forums and see what general mood is.
adamlycett 1 | 9
9 Oct 2011 #19
Donald Tusk is a pro european ass licker that will sink poland just like labour has in england.
Palivec - | 380
9 Oct 2011 #20
And Kaczynski doesn't want investments of Europes biggest economy in 1/3 of Poland. Idiot.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
9 Oct 2011 #21
Donald Tusk is a pro european ass licker that will sink poland just like labour has in england.

Did your wife remember to put in her false teeth this morning?

Privatised Pkp Cargo will pay ridiculously low rates for usage of tracks as is the case now when owned by the goverment.

Actually - one interesting thing about Polish Railways is that they're not paying ridiculously low rates - in fact, quite the opposite. PKP PLK has been getting a *lot* of criticism for the track access charges - if I recall rightly, they're among the highest in Europe - and this applies to all operators, private or otherwise.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Oct 2011 #22
Well, he has had 4 years to sink Poland and he hasn't done so. My suspicion a couple of years back was that he was going to sell Poland out to the highest bidder but he hasn't done that so far.
nahummer - | 3
9 Oct 2011 #23
Tusk and his neo-liberal masters in Brussels in Berlin have been doing everything they can to mobilize the feeling that Poland should privatize everything from the post office to the railways. They stole money that was supposed to be earmarked for the rails and used it to fill in the budget gap for roads while the trains run with half the cars they need. Pathetic to watch them follow the exact same failed process as the UK saw - theendisalwaysnear.blogspot.com/2011/01/cattle-car-cronyism.html
OP Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
9 Oct 2011 #24
privatize everything from the post office to the railways.

But could sell out to DB Schenker or RZhD be called privatization ? I don't think so.
antheads 13 | 366
9 Oct 2011 #25
Indeed if the germans are afraid to privatise DB, why should poland go first with a much more inmature market economy?

@nahummer
nice blog post. A lot of effort when into it.
yes for the money they are spending to build 3 new high speed rail lines that go 250kph they could spend the money to get a multitude more tracks up to 150 or even 100kph. In a country where many regional trains travel at 40kph the hsr is 2 steps too far.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,441
9 Oct 2011 #26
Tusk wants to privatize PKP Cargo

wants to or already many step have been taken in order to prepare the company to be privatized? I did a lil research on the net and I came to conclusion that it is just a matter of time and they have been accepting bids since May 2011, so it is not news anymore. The state of PKP has a lot to desire, therefore either sell it or improve it. I know that so far it has been managed by incompetent people.

However, on the personal level I am not really that interested anymore since I will not use PKP anymore:)
OP Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
9 Oct 2011 #27
The state of PKP has a lot to desire, therefore either sell it or improve it.

PKP Cargo is going to make 200 milliom net profit this year and is potentially much more profitable company. I see no point in giving it to German or Russian government.

wants to or already many step have been taken in order to prepare the company to be privatized?

Yes, just like with Lotos, which is going to be sold most probably to Russians for EUR 700 million. Both "privatizations" were halted due to elections.

yes for the money they are spending to build 3 new high speed rail lines that go 250kph they could spend the money to get a multitude more tracks up to 150 or even 100kph.

Definately. There must be very strong "lobbing" behind the whole high speed nonsense.
sobieski 107 | 2,128
9 Oct 2011 #28
I agree. What Poland needs is to get the present network up to date. Who cares if getting from Warsaw to Kraków is done in 3 hours or 2,5?

McDo will in any case have no idea where he is going to.

What matters is getting ordinary Polish people from A to B in a reasonable time. 8 hours from Warsaw to Gdynia is not the good thing to do :). Pan Kowalski has priority, big time.

Commuter lines should have priority. The fat ones can always go LOT.
hythorn 3 | 580
9 Oct 2011 #29
if you ever want to see real incompetence take the train in Germany
the Berlin Szczecin DB crews are utter morons and the DB supports the view that the DDR is alive and well

we were parked up in a siding for two hours with no explanation from the DB fu(kwits as to what was happening

Having these morons taking over PKP cargo would be an absolute tragedy
OP Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
9 Oct 2011 #30
What Poland needs is to get the present network up to date.

Sure but it's not about what Poland needs. Siemens needs multi-billion contract and they will get it.


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