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EU tribunal overrules Polish name contest in Lithuania


Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,714
14 May 2011  #121
Germany wasn't prepared to fight on both fronts, luckil;y for them, they didn't have to.

Not really Koala....the war would had ended quite immediately and the whole scale destruction would had been avoided most probably, nothing lucky about it!

Poland is the most yellow on that map = we are the purest race in the world LOL

Hmmm...let's see:

DNA groups

Poland:

6 I1

9 I2a

1 I2b

56.5 R1a

16.5 R1b

2 G2a

1 J2

1 J1

3.5 E1b1b

0 T (+ L)

0 Q

0 N1c1

Germany

16 I1

1.5 I2a

4.5 I2b

16 R1a

44.5 R1b

5 G2a

4.5 J2

0 J1

5.5 E1b1b

1 T (+ L)

0.5 Q

1 N1c1

....quite interesting :)
Ironside 48 | 9,704
14 May 2011  #122
that those people would not get the chance to determine their future

Ah but they did.

but how far you want to go back to justify demands?

I have already answered.....?
z_darius 14 | 3,969
14 May 2011  #123
General Silvestras Žukauskas

Sounds as Polish to me as Żukowski would :)
Harry
14 May 2011  #124
UK could have done a lot more than they have. First of all, they could have encouranged France to actually fullfil their obligation and launch invasion on Germany.

a) Please demonstrate that the French invasion of Germany in September was not a direct result of British pressure.
b) I asked you to go into detail about what Britain could done, please do so.

I never threw personal insults towards you or anybody else here. Stop making **** up.

You might wish to note that I have never said that you did.
Koala 1 | 332
14 May 2011  #125
French invasion on Germany? I thought you were somewhat serious, but now I see you're more of a joke character here. No one would call a single provocative strike an invasion. On September 12 1939 both UK and France decided not to invade Germany that year and to wait instead. And no, I won't play an armchair strategist and make detailed plans of the allies' invasion, it was possible for them to gather sufficient forces to overwhelm Germans in the west and stop the war right in its tracks.

Poland might still have ceased to exist, but that's another matter.

next off topic post earns a timeout
Nathan 18 | 1,363
15 May 2011  #126
To the mods: I talked a bit about language ;)

Soviets captured Polish territory

Says who? Koala? And Poles captured Lithuanian territory.

Soviets lose the war, Poland naturally wants to regain all its territories prior to the war

Prior to the war it had no territory and was a minority in the Austrian empire: no lands whatsoever.

Lithuania, as an ally to the side that lost the war, should give back the territory.

Now you lost. And?

all the support and assistance in its power

The Britain gave Poland all the assistance it could. I personally would break the agreement just as Poland did with Lithuania (to "prevent the bloodshed" as you said).

Furthermore in said territories election was held and in 1922 Central Lithuania's parliament would vote for their state's incorporation into Poland

Just like it was held in Poland in 1946-47. Why Lithuania didn't want to recognize the lost territories as Polish?

Sounds as Polish to me as Żukowski would :)

You see. But there are some who whine that they don't like spelling in Lithuanian. It is a fuss about nothing, indeed.
f stop 25 | 2,513
15 May 2011  #127
too much to read, but I'll offer this view, in case it hasn't been brought up yet: they wanted to use letters that do not exist in Lithuanian alphabet. If you allow this, next the Chinese'll want their name registered in their native alphabet.. and then where would we be?
z_darius 14 | 3,969
15 May 2011  #128
If you allow this, next the Chinese'll want their name registered in their native alphabet.. and then where would we be?

In Lithuania?
Torq 26 | 2,371
15 May 2011  #129
too much to read, but I'll offer this view, in case it hasn't been brought up yet: they wanted to use
letters that do not exist in Lithuanian alphabet. If you allow this, next the Chinese'll want their name
registered in their native alphabet.. and then where would we be?

That's not the point. It is obvious that the letters which are not in Lithuanian alphabet
cannot be used in official documents etc. Poles only want their names to be spellt in Lithuania
as they would be spellt in any other country e.g.: Wleciałowski would be spelled Wlecialowski
in the USA, because there is no "ł" in English, and Żubrzyński would be spellt Zubrzynski in France,
because there is no "Ż" or "ń" in the French alphabet. That's all they ask. But noooooo - Lithuanians
would spell their names Vlecalovièius and Žubrinskas (or something equally stupid.)
They even change the first names of Poles to their Lithuanian equivalents :-)

So, that's the point - they change Polish names into Lithuanian ones. If Poles forced Lithuanians
to use Polish version of their names (i.e. Mikulenas - Mikulenowski), or Germans (Bauer - Bałerowicz)
to do the same, the entire Europe would shake with outrage. However, if Poles are being persecuted
this way, nobody seems to mind.

Lithuanians spell their names in Poland exactly as they would have spellt them in Lithuania (except
for the use of specifically Lithuanian letters, which is understandable). Poles in Lithuania, cannot use
their names without Polish letters, and they have their names translated into ridiculous lituanized versions.

Then there is the matter of bilingual signs, which for some reason are not allowed even in places where
Polish minority is actually a majority. Then there is the cunning education reform, which will lead
to closing of over 50% of Polish schools in Lithuania and so on, and so on etc. etc.

It looks like Lithuania is purposely trying to enrage Poles and destroy relations with Poland. If that's
what they want, then so be it. We were patient for long enough - it's time to let Lithuanians know that
they can't f*ck us in the arse without lubrication. We should start from selling Polish state owned
property in Lithuania (preferably to Russians.)
Harry
15 May 2011  #130
If Poles forced Lithuanians to use Polish version of their names (i.e. Mikulenas - Mikulenowski), or Germans (Bauer - Bałerowicz) to do the same, the entire Europe would shake with outrage.

It's much more likely that nobody would give a shiit. Poland already discriminates against minorities and does so in ways which break EU law, you see anybody being outraged?

they wanted to use letters that do not exist in Lithuanian alphabet.

And the woman who wanted to change her name isn't even Polish anyway!
boletus 30 | 1,366
15 May 2011  #131
But noooooo - Lithuanians
would spell their names Vlecalovièius and Žubrinskas (or something equally stupid.)

With all due respect, I recently learned the following [a quote from some other forum]

Lithuanians use original version of name and just like Polish language or other Slavic languages it is highly inflected language with many cases for nouns.
The difference is that there is an ending for nominative case, which doesn't exist in Slavic languages.
.................... Lt .............Pl
Nominative.....Piotras....Piotr
Genetive.........Piotro.......Piotra

If this is a case, then there is nothing to quarrel about, since we Poles do it all the time with all other cases but nominative, as in "wizyta Baracka Obamy w Polsce."

On the other hand, lack of "w" in Lithuanian alphabet is just used as a lame excuse. Look at the list below

Do you know what are those villages?

Bokńiai
Vidugirių Būda
Burokai
Dievetińkė
Didņiuliai
Giluińiai
Kalinavas
Kampuoèiai
Kreivėnai
Navinykai
Agurkiai
Oņkiniai
Peleliai
Paliūnai
Pristavonys
Punskas
OMG! Many non Polish an non universal characters. Those are official names of villages in Poland and approved by our government... pages 11-12.

So, both sides should really relax and go back to a bargaining table.
Harry
15 May 2011  #132
On the other hand, lack of "w" in Lithuanian alphabet is just used as a lame excuse.

But it is precisely the same one that Poland uses to stop Mr Žukauskas legally being Mr Žukauskas: there is no letter Ž in Polish.
boletus 30 | 1,366
15 May 2011  #133
Poland uses to stop Mr Žukauskas legally being Mr Žukauskas

Sorry, I do not understand what you are saying. Did not I just post a long list of village names written with Lithuanian characters, and approved by Polish MSWiA for legal use in Poland?
Harry
15 May 2011  #134
Try getting Polish ID with other than Polish characters on it: you can not. And court documents can not use any characters other than Polish ones (which is why the Polish names of those villages would need to be used in any and all court filings).
boletus 30 | 1,366
15 May 2011  #135
Harry
Quoting myself (post 133)

So, both sides should really relax and go back to a bargaining table.

All of this sounds to me like déjà vu: Quebec vs. ROC (Rest of Canada). Quebec language police is still active, but people just voted Gilles Duceppe and his Bloc Québécois out of federal parliament. In other words, nationalistic issues become less and less important with time.
f stop 25 | 2,513
16 May 2011  #136
f stop: If you allow this, next the Chinese'll want their name registered in their native alphabet.. and then where would we be?

In Lithuania?

That is Roman script... am I missing your point?
z_darius 14 | 3,969
16 May 2011  #137
look above the Roman script.
OP PennBoy 76 | 2,437
14 Jun 2011  #138
Here we go again ....
Nathan 18 | 1,363
22 Jul 2011  #139
Polish minority in Lithuania - doublefacedness or innocence?

My question is:

How high can the Polish minority in Lithuania jump in regards to naming the streets and other municipal divisions in Polish as well as argue with the Lithuanian authorities when the spelling of the names is concerned after having read the following document:

Document about street signs

Should it bother the minority or just shoved as far as possible since it was 70 years ago?
Thanks for your input.
P.S.: Translation:
October 8, 1938 Cieszyn/Těšín (right after the Polish invasion of Czechoslovakia)
.... Names of streets, plazas, parks etc. as well as the names of different firms, institutions, companies etc. notwithstanding their private character must have exclusively Polish pronounciation/spelling.
Torq 26 | 2,371
22 Jul 2011  #140
after having read the following document

The document is from the year 1938. Now, the year is 2011.

Thank you.
Nathan 18 | 1,363
22 Jul 2011  #141
The document is from the year 1938. Now, the year is 2011.

So, should this be erased from memory or just ignored today as irrelevant?
Torq 26 | 2,371
22 Jul 2011  #142
ignored today as irrelevant

Exactly.

Unless you think that it would be OK for Polish government to order the executions of our German minority
members today, because that's what Germans were doing to Poles 70 years ago.
Nathan 18 | 1,363
22 Jul 2011  #143
So, why do you bother with the symbols of the past used today? They have completely different meaning and the circumstances are completely new and frankly unrelated.
Torq 26 | 2,371
22 Jul 2011  #144
.

You're not making any sense, Nathan.

Or do you really think that...

it would be OK for Polish government to order the executions of our German minority
members today, because that's what Germans were doing to Poles 70 years ago

?

Or that it's OK for Lithuanians to deprive Polish minority of their rights today, because Poles deprived
the Czech minority of their rights 70 years ago? In that case, you will need someone else's professional
help, as I'm not qualified to deal with mental disorders.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
22 Jul 2011  #145
Or that it's OK for Lithuanians to deprive Polish minority of their rights today

Both sides are behaving like utter children and should just grow up.
Nathan 18 | 1,363
22 Jul 2011  #146
You're not making any sense, Nathan

You are just not interested in getting it. The other day you all of a sudden spilled your poison in regards of UPA and OUN, which was absolutely uncalled for. You often reference my admiration of UPA as ultra-evil and fascist, which is really low on your part. Of course, there were different moments in history, but these soldiers fought for the independence of my country. I am not a bit interested in spilling Polish or any other blood, likewise majority of UPA and OUN soldiers have never wanted or done it. And I bet AK wasn't all that bad either. This is what bothers me. So, if you are so hasty in adjusting to the present, why keep on squirting dirt on the past?
Torq 26 | 2,371
22 Jul 2011  #147
spilled your poison in regards of UPA and OUN

I only reminded you and other members of some facts. There is no amount of "poison" that I could "spill",
no most horrible words that I could use, to even partially render the bestiality of UPA/OUN animals.

my admiration of UPA

...is the problem here. People who admire rapists and child murderers and think that they can be friends
with the families of those who were murdered, need to think again. But, hey, go ahead - keep admiring.

these soldiers fought for the independence of my country

It's a pity that most of the time they chose women and children to fight against.

I am not a bit interested in spilling Polish or any other blood

Well, that's a progress for sure, compared to your UPA heroes. I applaud.

if you are so hasty in adjusting to the present, why keep on squirting dirt on the past?

Remembering the past is one thing, but justifying present unjust policies with something that happened
70 years ago is a complete and utter nonsense.

Even though I remember about UPA's atrocities, I would never even suggest that present day Poland
should answer with similar actions towards Ukrainian minority in Poland today. You, on the other hand,
seem to think that Polish government's polonization policies of 70 years ago, can be used to justify
denying Polish minority their rights today.
Nathan 18 | 1,363
22 Jul 2011  #148
Even though I remember

You don't remember the facts, you remember boring stories fed by your surroundings, but hey - it is your business. Whatever you said is really ridiculous and I have no intention to expand on that.

The only thing I might add is that like you cannot let go of your fables about UPA, so the Lithuanians will not forget what Poland did to them 70 years ago. Until you do your part, it is preposterous to expect others to do the same in regards to you. But this is a feature that I find in your mentality: be saint at all cost while blaiming the others. I wonder how Hyper-Catholicity of yours deals with that. Or is it still as empty as it always was in regards to intelligence (to clarify myself, I meant Jan Gus, Galileo, Wycliff etc.)
Torq 26 | 2,371
22 Jul 2011  #149
Check your PM, Nat, and after that, if you still want to "exchange civilties"
on an open forum, I'd be more than happy to do that.
Ironside 48 | 9,704
22 Jul 2011  #150
You don't remember the facts, you remember boring stories fed by your surroundings

talking about yourself Nat? Why don't you face the truth at last? These people knew each other by name and face, do you think that Poles did not checked who done what? Hell, moral and just Ukrainians at the time were trying to help or stop that madness. They also knew who were the perpetrators.

There is Nazi, genocidal philosophy, spawned by the fathers of your UPA.
On the other hand you are making some pathetic excuses blaming Russians without a shred of evidence.


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