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EU tribunal overrules Polish name contest in Lithuania


dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007
13 May 2011  #61
Sure, I could ask some of Scots in Scotland - if you don't like this or that - why don't you leave?

different due to the fact that Scots aren't looking to take over areas of England. anyway like i said i find the subject interesting but have not much knowledge on it, so educate me, how did Poles end up there?
Koala 1 | 332
13 May 2011  #62
They have lived there for hundreds of years. Current capital of Lithuania, Wilno/Vilnus, was ethnically Polish prior to World War 2 and it only changed after commies took over, so relatively recently.
dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007
13 May 2011  #63
Didn't the 2 countries join together their armies to stop invaders? And in turn beat off the Germans?
OP PennBoy 76 | 2,438
13 May 2011  #64
different due to the fact that Scots aren't looking to take over areas of England.

Good point Ironside has. Scotland hasn't been independent in ages yet so many still would like to see a independent Scotland. I know Poles in Lithuania have a homeland in Poland if they choose to go back, yet since that part of Lithuania used to be Poland and is still mostly populated by Poles, they just expect equality.
dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007
13 May 2011  #65
I know Poles in Lithuania have a homeland in Poland

Sorry but they don't, they live in another whole country.
Koala 1 | 332
13 May 2011  #66
Didn't the 2 countries join together their armies to stop invaders? And in turn beat off the Germans?

Poland and Lithuania were in union since late XIVth until late XVIIIth century, since late XVIth century they were basically one country. Poland being the stronger part of that union - demographically, economically etc. led to gradual polonization of Lithuanian nobility and elites, in the capital of Lithuania and its surroundings there were more Poles, Jews and Belarusans than Lithuanians (Lithuanians comprised only 7% of population of that region prior to WWII).

So Poles didn't appear in those territories out of nowhere.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,823
13 May 2011  #67
They have lived there for hundreds of years. Current capital of Lithuania, Wilno/Vilnus, was ethnically Polish prior to World War 2 and it only changed after commies took over, so relatively recently.

Also worth pointing out that it was a Lithuanian city after WW1, only for Poland to seize it by force.
Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
13 May 2011  #68
Some of you write the Polish were native to Lithuania, especially to Wilno, only the border has been shifted. True. Some of you whine Lithuanian Polish are forced to assume Lithuanian surnames and are told to speak Lithuanian. True.

Let us go back to the Upper Silesia in Poland. The Silesians always were there, only the borders were moving. What the same people as above say? "Silesian can be Silesian as long as they are Polish citizens and speak fluent Polish". "Silesian is not a language, it is a dialect of Polish". "Why don't you Silesians leave for Vaterland?" "Silesians are veiled German option".

Can't you see double standards and hypocrisy in such thinking?
Koala 1 | 332
13 May 2011  #69
Also worth pointing out that it was a Lithuanian city after WW1, only for Poland to seize it by force.

LOL, no it wasn't. Directly after WWI Vilnus belonged to Poland. Soviets temporarily captured it, when forced to retreat they transferred the territory to Lithuanian government, deliberately to stir up a conflict between Poland and Lithuania (and they succeeded).
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 10,013
13 May 2011  #70
Can't you see double standards and hypocrisy in such thinking?

Most can't!

I also tried to bring it to their attention that their behaviour against Ukrainians is the exact mirror of what they don't like about German behaviour against Poles.

But most are blind with that eye... :(
OP PennBoy 76 | 2,438
13 May 2011  #71
Can't you see double standards and hypocrisy in such thinking?

But Silesians (since most Slavic Silesians see themselves as Poles) are ethnic Germans and they have their own schools and dual language road signs and 2 parliament members so for their small minority numbers they are well represented in Poland,
Nathan 18 | 1,363
13 May 2011  #72
Just a question: What about people who use Cyrilic alphabet and are a minority, let say in Poland. Are they allowed to have their names written the original way or are transformed into Latin alphabet used in Poland?

I hear whispers saying that it is different than the case of Polish minority in Lithuania. Ok, in what way?
*goes to sleep still hearing whispers* ;)
guesswho 4 | 1,293
13 May 2011  #73
The problem with Litvaki is that they are scared of Poles because they are a little, insignificant nation

that sounds pretty arrogant since your country is not really that big either.
OP PennBoy 76 | 2,438
13 May 2011  #74
or are transformed into Latin alphabet used in Poland?

First there aren't too many of one single nationality in Poland that uses it, if there was i'm sure they'd have bi lingual signs. Second Cyrillic is a lost alphabet, most EU citizens use Roman it's bound to be extinct.
grubas 12 | 1,392
13 May 2011  #75
that sounds pretty arrogant since your country is not really that big either.

Unfortunatelly I don't have a country (I wish I had one,it would be the best country in the whole world),anyway,I understand you are refering to Poland then you should know that Poland (by population) is a 34th country in the world vs 135th Lithuania.What's arrogant about pointing out a simple FACT?
guesswho 4 | 1,293
13 May 2011  #76
Unfortunatelly I don't have a country (I wish I had one,it would be the best country in the whole world

all you have to do is to go back to Poland to make yourself happy again. I assume, you'd be able to call it your country, right?

I understand you are refering to Poland then you should know that Poland (by population) is a 34th country in the world vs 135th Lithuania.What's arrogant about pointing out a simple FACT?

no, you won't get out of it that cheap my friend, lol You called it "insignificant nation"., in other words, you called them basically an "UNIMPORTANT NATION" (you know exactly what you did grubas, lol)
Torq 26 | 2,362
13 May 2011  #77
As I said before - one little letter from count Bul-Komorowski would solve the problem.
Surely things are not that bad for the president's office that they can't afford an envelope
and a post stamp?

The letter should read, more or less, as follows:

To: the government of the Republic of Lithuania

We call the government of Lithuania to immediately stop violating the rights of Polish
minority, regarding education, bilingual signs and restoration of Polish property.

We find it especially outrageus, that the nazi government of Lithuania denies Polish
minority even those basic rights that are guaranteed directly by the European Union,
which, as we allow ourselves to remind, your fascist seasonal statelet is a member of.

If the violated rights are not restored within 48 hours, I will take all the necessary steps
to ensure the protection of the persecuted Polish minority.

Signed:

The President of the Republic of Poland
and Commander in Chief of Polish Armed Forces

Bronisław Komorowski

PS The clock is ticking. *tick, tock, tick, tock*

:-)
Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
13 May 2011  #78
But Silesians (since most Slavic Silesians see themselves as Poles) are ethnic Germans and they have their own schools and dual language road signs and 2 parliament members so for their small minority numbers they are well represented in Poland,

No. Except the Opole/Oppeln region -- where the German minority is fully recognized -- Upper Silesians assuming German nationality moved to the Vaterland long time ago. Remaining native Upper Silesians have been there at least since 15th century. Their language is ancient Slavic with strong German influence. They have own literature, they have own culture. This is denied by the "true Poles".

The problem of native Upper Silesians is they have no Pres. Komorowski to protect them, they cannot count on the support from Germany either -- since they are not German. They are Silesian.
grubas 12 | 1,392
13 May 2011  #79
all you have to do is to go back to Poland to make yourself happy again. I assume, you'd be able to call it your country, right?

No.The only way I would ever be able to call any country a "my country" is if I ruled it according to MY ideas and beliefs.

You called it "insignificant nation"., in other words, you called them basically an "UNIMPORTANT NATION" (you know exactly what you did grubas, lol)

Yeah,I know but they are "unimportant" (at least in my opinion).
Harry
13 May 2011  #80
Also worth pointing out that it was a Lithuanian city after WW1, only for Poland to seize it by force.

And for Poland to threaten to invade the rest of Lithuania if the Lithuanians didn't agree to Poland's breach of the relevant international treaty.

Interesting fact for you all: 'Lithunian language' schools in Poland have to use English as a foreign language text books designed for Poles, the ministry of education refuses to certify Lithuanian textbooks.

Can any of the outraged Poles here tell me if Lithuanians in Poland are permitted to have proper Lithuanian names?
Torq 26 | 2,362
13 May 2011  #81
Also worth pointing out that it was a Lithuanian city after WW1

I really like what Czesław Miłosz (who considered himself Lithuanian) told Lithuanians in Vilnius once:

"It is not true that before WW2 Wilno was a Polish city."

*applause from the audience*

"It was a Polish-Jewish city!"

LOL The man was a legend.

Anyway...

Can any of the outraged Poles here tell me if Lithuanians in Poland are permitted to have proper Lithuanian names?

Yes, they are allowed to have bilingual signs with proper Lithuanian names in the areas with Lithuanian
minority in Poland (Suwalszczyzna). The same right is denied to Poles in Lithuania.
Harry
13 May 2011  #82
Yes, they are allowed to have bilingual signs with proper Lithuanian names in the areas with Lithuanian
minority in Poland (Suwalszczyzna). The same right is denied to Poles in Lithuania.

That is not the answer to the question which I asked (which suggests you might know the answer). You also overlook the fact that the woman in this case is not actually an ethnic Pole anyway.
Koala 1 | 332
13 May 2011  #83
And for Poland to threaten to invade the rest of Lithuania if the Lithuanians didn't agree to Poland's breach of the relevant international treaty.

What treaty?
Harry
13 May 2011  #84
^ The Suwałki Agreement: signed by Poland on 7 October 1920, broken by Poland on 8 October 1920 in a movement which had been planned before the treaty was signed, meaning that Poland signed the agreement with the intention of breaking it.
Koala 1 | 332
13 May 2011  #85
The army acted against orders.
gumishu 11 | 4,956
13 May 2011  #86
only officially Koala - let's not promote myths
Harry
13 May 2011  #87
The army acted against orders.

I do love the way some Poles react to inconvenient bits of history: lie, lie, lie and keep lying.
Koala 1 | 332
13 May 2011  #88
Whatever buddy. The fact is, Lithuania occupied Polish territory (as they received it from Soviets who were at war with Poland and only captured Wilno temporarily) didn't want to leave the area, didn't agree to make the poll, the only way wasto capture it the same way Lithuanians de facto did - by force.

only officially Koala - let's not promote myths

I'm only doing the same thing Harry is.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,823
13 May 2011  #89
Yes, they are allowed to have bilingual signs with proper Lithuanian names in the areas with Lithuanian
minority in Poland (Suwalszczyzna). The same right is denied to Poles in Lithuania.

It's crazy. Poland allows bilingual signs, but doesn't allow textbooks to children. Then you get Lithuania, which subsidises books in Polish, but also refuses Polish signs.

Seriously, WTF?
Nathan 18 | 1,363
13 May 2011  #90
Second Cyrillic is a lost alphabet

???? What does it mean? One may then say the same about Chinese.

First there aren't too many of one single nationality in Poland that uses it

Why has there to be people of one nationality? Cyrillic is used in Ukrainian, Beloruski, Serbian, Russian, Bulgarian, Croatian, Montenegrin etc languages. There is quite a minority of these people in Poland to have their names in Polish passports printed in Cyrillic. But they don't. So, why whine about the Lithuanian demands in regards to Polish way of writing?


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