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Tram line to Warsaw's Wilanów finally to be built.

jon357 64 | 14,382    
16 Jun 2015  #1
This is great news and long awaited - it was actually due to be built in 2007 however the sudden rush of EU infrastructure funding led the city council to have many other issues about developing the system.

The original route was to go down Marszalkowska to pl. Unii Lubelskiej, down Gararina, then down Sobieskiego. Interesting to see if they choose that route. It will be good for house prices, and Miasteczko Wilanów (plus the huge Stegny estate) will no longer be quite so cut off.

The largest single tram investment will be an entirely new 10km line linking the centre with the Wilanów district in the south of the city, which will also require 50 new trams to operate the route

Polsyr 6 | 771    
16 Jun 2015  #2
This is very good news indeed. It means the old metro line should become less congested. Now about Ursynow...
16 Jun 2015  #3
I do go to Willanow normally once a week and have to take public transportation (pure hell!). I don't see any construction work so they have not started. I suppose it won't be before 10 or 20 years;
Polsyr 6 | 771    
16 Jun 2015  #4
10-20 if we're lucky gosc :) Let's be optimistic and say 3-5...
16 Jun 2015  #5
@Polsyr: I am realistic, not optimistic ;). Since they have not even started, it's going to be for next generation. How long have they been working on that Church in Willanow, which is not even finished? I know from various sources that Willanow ground is floodable so I suppose it's very soft and it'll demand cautions work....

Good I don't have to travel to and from Willanow more than once a week!
Polsyr 6 | 771    
16 Jun 2015  #6
In general most soil in the region is problematic that way. And it does complicate construction work.
OP jon357 64 | 14,382    
16 Jun 2015  #7
10 or 20 years;

2017 or 2018, though that does sound a bit like a 'Polish promise'. Nevertheless, there's EU funding this time so the project will be carefully monitored and worth remembering that laying a tramline is very different from building a vast (and heavy) cathedral. Plus of course the fact that the line is to Wilanów and therefore mostly not in that area.

The central reservation on ul. Sobieskiego was built to be wide enough for a tram line. The hassle would be the ul. Gagarina bit.
16 Jun 2015  #8
2017 or 2018

I seem to remember that the second Metro line was supposed to be complete by the start of the Euro 2012 tournament....
Polsyr 6 | 771    
16 Jun 2015  #9
@ jon357 That is true in terms of monitoring, but does not guarantee on site performance in some cases. For example, I am working on a big job in West Pomerania that is co-financed by EU and running a good 18-20 months behind schedule as of now, entirely due to disagreements between different local subcontractors working on the project. And that is despite being managed by a very reputable project management consultancy.
OP jon357 64 | 14,382    
16 Jun 2015  #10
That is true in terms of monitoring, but does not guarantee on site performance in some cases.

Indeed - plenty of stories of delay - just look at the Metro.

I wonder if an easier solution would be to make two lateral lines. One from Wilanów pętla by the palace, past Miasteczko Wilanów to the metro at Kabaty, and another from the Stegny estate to Metro Służew.
Polsyr 6 | 771    
16 Jun 2015  #11
I heard the population in Wilanow is not going up in numbers and may (potentially) be declining. I wonder if that would be taken into consideration. Heard the same thing about Zoliborz as well.
OP jon357 64 | 14,382    
16 Jun 2015  #12
Aging populations, and those with kids tend to have just the one. Still, better transport links to Wilanów (and remember that the tramline ends there - most of the stops will be elsewhere, Stegny, Dolny Mokotów etc) are very badly needed and long overdue. It will also benefit those who live and work further out than Wilanów, somewhere that's being heavily developed now.
Polsyr 6 | 771    
16 Jun 2015  #13
Yes exactly, it will provide much needed relief to Ursynow and southern suburbs as well.
16 Jun 2015  #14
My goodness! When I read the post, I thought it was for the ... metro!!!!! ;) . If only an extra tram line, it should not be that complicated ... ;)
OP jon357 64 | 14,382    
16 Jun 2015  #15
I thought it was for the ... metro!!!!! ;)

If only. The third line is decades away. The proposal (pre-proposal? pre-pre-possible-proposal?) goes nowhere near Wilanow or Ursynow either. Though one of the options is to take it parallel down the other side of the river using existing rail lines.
16 Jun 2015  #16
@Jon: I don't know why but I misread 'metro". Yes, if any metro line to Willanow, it'll be in 1 or 2 centuries. To install tram rails should not be too hard. It'll make it easy because with the bus, it's pure hell. Bus 522 is the least unpleasant, once Spacerowa passed ;)
OP jon357 64 | 14,382    
16 Jun 2015  #17
once Spacerowa passed

That will be much the same with the tram - according to the route (or the planned route when they were going to build it in 2007) it went down Spacerowa - I said Gagarina by mistake earlier . Dunno how they're going to find room for it at the junction at the top. The difficult issue is the hill - presumably Spacerowa's the easiest gradient.
16 Jun 2015  #18
@Jon: OK ;) but going through Spacerowa is a tiny bit "better" than taking the bus (317 or 217) at Wilanowska and having to go through that intersection the name of which I never can remember, Dolina Sluzewicka or something like that, a real nightmare. A few times the bus was stuck for about 15 minutes and 2 weeks ago bus 522 got stuck for about 10 minutes in front of the Russian embassy .... I know people in Willanow, just next to that Church traveling to Centrum everyday to work and to school and they say it's just impossible.
OP jon357 64 | 14,382    
16 Jun 2015  #19
Dolina Sluzewicka

Dreadful road - quicker to walk during rush hour. A case though for a Wilanow tram to go parallel to it and end at Metro Sluzew. I used to use the 503 a lot when I lived off the top bit of Sobieskiego & worked often in Ursynow/Woloska and it was murder. Once or twice I did actually get off, have a walk (and a cigarette) and get back on at the next stop.

Thinking about it though, a good way to Willow is to get on the 503 at Nowy Swiat or plac Trzech Krzyzy and change at Dolna for one of the others like the 116 - that goes the back way to Wilanow and sort of follows the proposed tram line. Or just use the 116 (or the E2). When they announced it before, my heart sank when I heard it was due to go on Spacerowa, however Belwederska is just too steep by the Russian Embassy and in any case they wouldn't want trams on Ujazdowski (although there was a tram line there pre-war).
16 Jun 2015  #20
@Jon: Yes, sometimes I am around Pl. Tr. Krzyzy, so I take the bus there (don't remember the number) and then change at Dolina but sometimes travel straight from home (Stara Ochota) so I take 522 at Politechnika. The problem with the 522 route is Spacerowa, going downhill and then it's ok but sorry I can't see myself walking from Stara Ochota to .... Willanow ;). No way José! Warsaw is killing me, it is so difficult to move around. The second metro line sure helps but it is not enough.
OP jon357 64 | 14,382    
16 Jun 2015  #21
If they'd pulled their finger out and built the third line of the metro it would have been ideal for you to get from Stara Ochota to Willow (or anywhere else from the station on Narutowicza) but that will be a long way off.
16 Jun 2015  #22
@Jon; I don't expect to have a metro line just out of my flat for my personal comfort ;)
Wincig 2 | 151    
20 Aug 2018  #23

Anyone living in Warsaw able to give an update on the tramway line that was to built from Centrum to Wilanow? Have the works started yet?

cms neuf - | 762    
20 Aug 2018  #24
They are supposed to be starting in 2019 last I heard but I am not sure they agreed the final route yet.

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