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Streets closed in Warsaw during NATO summit

Crow 160 | 9,212
15 Jul 2016 #61
And Serbia's damage

that, my virtual friend, goes similar to Iraq story, in the sense that reasons to deal with Serbians were invented and then actions against them justified. That is all what would i tell in defense here. And you would believe me only when your own government admit its crimes on my people and i hope that to be soon, because truly, EU based on lies don`t have reason to exist. NATO existence based on lies is biggest example of it.

It doesn`t mean that Serbian side in conflict in former Yugoslavia didn`t commit any crimes. Same as others (NATO and EU leading powers, Islamic league, Albania and their lap dogs in Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia and Kosovo) and even less then others, Serbian side (some there) committed crimes. But, point is that Serbians defended themselves, while others were attackers and most of them had ideological background for crimes on Serbs. Ideologies such are Nazism, Germanic hegemonism, extreme islamism embraced by Croatian and Bosnian ruling elite, as well as by many western European countries. Even USA congress once announced that Albanians have right to Kosovo because they are natives there, while are Serbians, as all Slavs, newcomers to Balkan and Europe. Hitler wouldn`t tell it ``better``. That announcement of USA congress, openly presented USA as a country that embraced anti-Slavic Nazism and fascism as their ideology, at least in one moment of history.

All would become known to wide public. i see truth becoming global process. As if humanity came to the point where lies threatening the very forces of global prosperity.
OP jon357 72 | 21,104
15 Jul 2016 #62
actions against them justified

Yes, they were entirely justified. Mass murder is a reason for intervention. It had to be stopped and it was stopped. NATO were right.
Crow 160 | 9,212
15 Jul 2016 #63
What are you talking jone357??? Are you now finally completely and utterly insane? It is NATO who is majordomo for mass and individual murdering on this planet. For any Serbian transgression, NATO is last who would have moral credibility to say a word against Serbians.

And again, your fabricated anti-Serbian propaganda won`t bring you anything. Actually, only shame, considering that truth becoming more and more obvious.
OP jon357 72 | 21,104
15 Jul 2016 #64
For any Serbian transgression

And there are many.


Is popular in Poland.
Crow 160 | 9,212
16 Jul 2016 #65
during NATO summit in Warsaw


NATO turned into final joke after involvement in Turkish coup. Not that Erdogan don`t deserve to be put down (he deserve) but, mechanisms of NATO as an ally of Turkey are truly remarkable. No real viable difference between back in past Warsaw Pact and NATO of our time. Should we really ask, as some people already do- did NATO planed and commit assassination of Polish president Lech Kaczinsky?
johnny reb 45 | 6,526
25 Jul 2016 #66
Crow it is like this............

World War 3 is assured whoever wins the Presidency in the United States.
If it's Trump, he'll withdraw US forces from Europe.
Consequently, Russia will take their chances and pre emptively attack Europe whilst it's less well defended because they feel surrounded and that there's a plan to attack them anyway.

If there's civil unrest in Europe at the same time they may feel it's in their national security interests to intervene anyway.
However, if Clinton becomes POTUS she won't withdraw US forces from Europe but you can probably expect her to foment social and political unrest in Russia.

She'll then use Russia's new destability as an excuse to intervene (for humanitarian reasons, obviously) in the same way as the West intervened on the side of the White Russians after World War 1.

I hope we don't end up having shoot each other Crow as I have always liked you and your humor.
Crow 160 | 9,212
25 Jul 2016 #67
i doubt that would Russia attack outside of her primary defensive zone (like Georgia for example or Baltic states, parts of Ukraine). Only Russian action `far` from Russia, like it was in Syria could happen in Serbia (particularly on Kosovo). There is Russian base in Serbia. But, from the angle of Poland, Russian intervention on behalf of Serbs actually can only strengthen Poland`s strategic interests in the region, in the sense that all what is good for Serbians, it is good for Poles, too. As always in history. Just, right now Poland can`t help to Serbs so Russians could fill the gap.

Also, Russian action deeper onto European inland (particularly Poland, Hungary) is excluded. Its not neither in Russian, neither in Chinese interests. But, in case of any global conflict Russians and Chinese would strictly coordinate. There are military Russian-Chinese agreements on that. That include millions of Chinese soldiers on Russian western borders if come to hostilities. It is Chinese soldiers who might now `visit` western Europe. Not unexpectedly. Russia would in that case rather focus on USA.
mafketis 36 | 10,371
25 Jul 2016 #68
like Georgia for example or Baltic states, parts of Ukraine)

none of those are Russian "defensive zones" they are separate countries whose populations want to be free of Russian domination and interference. Get your facts straight.
Crow 160 | 9,212
25 Jul 2016 #69
You are the one who don`t understand. Serbia for example declared its military neutrality. Some countries are stupid enough (or rather sold to world bank or some others, by their own politicians) to even provoke world powers and they that way gave up from their own sovereignty. That is reality.

With every new day, we clearly see what NATO truly is for Poland. NATO is trap for Poland. Set for Poland by mortal enemies of Poles.

[Moved from]: Opinions about Polish military police raid NATO centre in Warsaw

Let us hear opinions about this event. One great thanks from me to the owner of web site for demonstrated freedom of speech.

In my opinion, time if for Poland to offer resistance to any foreign control. Go Poland!

Polish military police raid Nato centre in Warsaw

Polish military police have raided a Nato-affiliated counterintelligence centre in Warsaw in the latest of a series of moves by the country's new rightwing government to consolidate its hold on power.

skrud - | 36
20 Aug 2016 #70
This news is from December 2015 , irrelevant anymore , swept under the carpet , no big deal . NATO Summit happened anyways without any complications ,so stop blowing it out of proportion like this was some sort of resistance from Poland against NATO . LOL
20 Aug 2016 #71
we clearly see what NATO truly is for Poland.

You might see something different but Poles see NATO as a wonderful organisation that helps them do what is right in the world and protects Poland. Foreign troops are based in Poland as a result of NATO and they help deter Russia from invading Poland yet again; Poles very strongly support that. And as a result of being in NATO Poles can fight for what is right and do so in the Polish army. When the people of Croatia and Bosnia were being murdered and raped by Serbian invaders Poles had to join Croatian and Bosnian armed forces in order to protect those people but now Poland is in NATO Poles can serve in the Polish army and protect vulnerable people such as the Kosovans who suffered mass murder and ethnic cleansing at the hands of Serbian scum. Poles are happy that they can be in the Polish army and still help people who need help. If you knew anything at all about Poles and Poland, you'd know that Poles are overwhelmingly in favour of NATO and NATO membership.
mafketis 36 | 10,371
20 Aug 2016 #72
they help deter Russia from invading Poland yet again; Poles very strongly support that.

Crow doesn't get that Poles tend to regard Russia more or less the same way Serbs regard Turkey - a large hostile power that has invaded and oppressed people before and probably would again if it had the chance. Ethnic Slavic solidarity is a non-starter for most Polish people (as regards Russia, it's a kind of a positive factor in relations with Ukraine).
Crow 160 | 9,212
21 Aug 2016 #73
Crow doesn't get that Poles tend to regard Russia more or less the same way Serbs regard Turkey - a large hostile power

i do understand that. On the level of countries. But, i assure you that are Poles and Russians much warmer to each others then Serbians and Turks. Still, things aren`t that simple.

Poles and Russians are in kind of competition. i would call it that way. Both Slavs (ie Sarmatians/Scythians), as all Slavs after all, separated by borders defined by strangers and foreign influences. Both, Poles and Russians, forced to abandon Svetovid and Co. and at one moment of history embrace the Judeo-Roman culture. Distinguished themselves to prove which version of foreign culture is better for themselves and for others. Sure, competition between settled Sarmatians and nomadic branch of Sarmatians (ie Scythians) existed even in antiquity. But also, there were old alliances, when foreigners threatened.

But, Serbians and Turks. Well, its completely different story. Its negation of each others. Clash of two different worlds. Polish-German relation is also of that kind. No, Polish-Russian relationship is rather competition, not complete negation.
mafketis 36 | 10,371
21 Aug 2016 #74
But, i assure you that are Poles and Russians much warmer to each others then Serbians and Turks

At the personal level, maybe, many Poles like elements of Russian culture. But Poles (for very good reasons) will always instinctively mistrust the Russian state, whether Tsarist, the USSR or Putinstan. Trying to get Poles to forget hundreds of years of terrible history for the sake of a small insignificant country like Serbia (in the broader scheme of things) is a non-starter.
Crow 160 | 9,212
21 Aug 2016 #75
Why forget? Forgive, maybe. Whole world is in that situation.

But, same way, in a blink of an eye Poles could be reminded of all horrors which western Europeans (not just Germany) done to Poland and to Poles throughout history. i would even dare to say that we coming to that point with every new day. That, in situation when is Poland in alliance with western Europe.
mafketis 36 | 10,371
21 Aug 2016 #76
Why forget? Forgive, maybe. ... Poles could be reminded of all horrors which western Europeans (not just Germany) done to Poland and to Poles

Forgiveness is meaningless without repentance. Germany has owned up to and apologized for its past actions which makes it possible to forgive (without forgetting). Russia still thinks it was in the right or that if some Poles were killed, so what the Russian government killed even more Russians and they don't care (they really don't). Russia semi-officially blames Poland for starting WWII.

Without Russia acknowledging its past and trying to make amends there's no moral foundation for forgiveness.
Crow 160 | 9,212
21 Aug 2016 #77
Well, fortunately for Slavic civilization and for all Slavs (ie Sarmatians) who live in different Slavic countries, its not Poland and Russia who lead. Serbia leading and we Serbians says that Slavic civilization do exist in all its diversity.
Marsupial - | 886
21 Aug 2016 #78
Well crow nato in poland makes perfect sense. We had the other there in the warsaw pact our Slavic ' brothers'. Having tried the product poles have rejected it for a better one. As for the germans they are the lifeblood of polands decent economy and everyone is benefitting. I especially like energy diversification purchases from other countries and the constant export expansion away from the east. Further and further from putinastan.
Sparks11 - | 334
21 Aug 2016 #79
Why are you always on about Sarmatians? Do you realize that this ancient Slavic group or whatever doesn't exist in the minds of modern Poles. REAL people are only REALLY concerned about what aggressive states may do to their country and themselves.
Crow 160 | 9,212
21 Aug 2016 #80
Sarmatians? Somebody must.

As for real people. Real people love winners and that is why we must win. That is why Anglos and western Europeans losing.
johnny reb 45 | 6,526
21 Aug 2016 #81
you'd know that Poles are overwhelmingly in favour of NATO and NATO membership.

They better as things are starting to heat up in Turkey as a our NATO partner.
Turkey Demands Shared Control of US Nukes at Incirlik before Lifting Siege of US Airmen.
The U.S. is now removing the nukes from Turkey that protect Poland.
Once the U.S. has removed them Turkey is going to let Russia use Incirlik airbase to launch strikes in Syria.
In response (my guess is) Obama and Putin will meet head to head in maybe Ukraine where WW3 will start.
Things sure are getting "interesting" over there to say the least.
Crow 160 | 9,212
22 Aug 2016 #82
And look what Hungarian Orban doing. He travel to Turkey. Considering his previous politics, when he consolidated relations with Serbia (Hungary and Serbia made historical deal, even kind of unique military alliance) and Russia, he now for sure travel to Turkey to further coordinate with Russia.

What i want to tell you, if things gets ugly, NATO will crumble in a split second. Hungary goes out. Bulgaria follow. Czeska and Slovakia, too. Greece, too. Also, Slovenia.

In my opinion, here in the region, NATO can count only on loyalty of Albania and Croatia but, i wouldn`t exclude serious internal turmoils in Croatia by elements (both- Catholic and Orthodox) loyal to Serbdom. Turmoils are for sure expected in Romania and then most probable coup, what may leave country in NATO or out, i can`t say precisely.

What would then Poland? In situation when rest of Visegrad Group abandoning NATO and when NATO demonstrate serious weakness and crumble. When most loyal friends and brothers of Poles, Hungarians and Serbs, stays out of NATO and even maybe conflicting with NATO. i think, internal turmoils in Poland are guaranteed. Coup? Possible. i personally see Poland out of NATO or serious possibility for split of country.

Beware Poles. Avoid this trap. Go out of NATO. Come with Hungarians and Serbians.
Marsupial - | 886
22 Aug 2016 #83
The countries you mentioned are powerless. They are that way because the soviets sucked them dry while as ypu say anglos just grew. Russia...biggest partner of nato weakening europe giving all power to anglos since 1939 and before. The countries you mention are useless in conflict and making some sort of pact with them is also useless. When you say nato I don't even consider those countries as part of it for anything but symbolism had you not mentioned say bulgaria I would never think of it. When people say help from nato I do not include those places in any such help or any significance at all.
Crow 160 | 9,212
26 Aug 2016 #84
It is good to be aware of anti-USA and anti-NATO stance of Japanese people.

Tens of thousands protest on Okinawa to close key U.S. bases in Japan

TOKYO - Tens of thousands of protesters Sunday on Okinawa called for the closure of all U.S. military bases on the strategically important island, following last month's rape and murder of a 20-year-old woman in which a U.S. base worker is the suspect.

Crow 160 | 9,212
30 Oct 2016 #85
Video goes considering Poland`s NATO membership. So that Poles see with whom are they in alliance

Very informative video for Poles. Here you can see what Serbian patriotic politician Vojislav Seselj said about NATO and other things. Seselj was innocent jailed and trial lasted 11 (eleven) years. Trial to Seselj represent violation of every possible known juridical procedure. Finally, court/prosecution wasn`t able to prove his quilt and he was freed and sent home. This video (from 7th year of trial) giving insight of Seselj`s defense during false trial. Man defended himself. He didn`t want a lawyer.

copy and paste link >
Crow 160 | 9,212
31 Oct 2016 #86
Update of news on NATO, considering Poland`s NATO membership

NATO's 1999 bombing campaign was aggression, says Lavrov


The aggression against Yugoslavia was certainly aggression. By the way, it was the first armed attack in Europe on a sovereign state after 1945,"

..... on ... Syria, ..... first of all Americans, and Brits ..... their hysteria reaching public insults, using such words as 'barbarism', 'war crime'. I will recall that the aggression against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia was associated with attacks on a huge number of civilian facilities,

Czeslaw #1
31 Oct 2016 #87
The streets are closed because Poland is a very violent angry society, bigotry is ubiquitous with being Polish.

Poland couldn't afford the risk of keeping them open, no more than the Poles here can tolerate another opinion.
Crow 160 | 9,212
1 Nov 2016 #88
hm, so you suggest how is Poland unsafe for NATO personnel. i see
Crow 160 | 9,212
2 Nov 2016 #89
Woa, taking in account all controversial rapports and ongoing diplomatic discussions of certain Serbian ministries and USA officials and USA embassy in Belgrade, seams that NATO and USA these days attempted to assassinate Serbian PM Aleksandar Vucic. Could this be possible in modern-day international relations? Just to assassinate head of government (or president) of some country? Just like that?
Crnogorac3 3 | 808
6 Nov 2016 #90
Ken O'Keefe Dares To Say What Others Do Not

In USA there is one shameful equation : War = Prosperity

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