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Smoking ban in Polish bars and restaurants (AT LAST!)


Olaf 6 | 956
9 Nov 2010 #211
I can't wait for it, pubs are so much better without smoke

Totally agree. This new law is not that good for either sides [non-smokers and addicts, as I like to call them;) ] but hopefully it will work for the best...
inkrakow
9 Nov 2010 #212
I can't wait for it, pubs are so much better without smoke and for all you smokers, when you go outside to smoke you'll meet more people, go outside, forget your lighter and ask the nice girl beside you for a light, everybody wins

Don't hold your breath ;) Sanepid, who are going to be responsible for enforcing it, only work between 7am and 3pm, and here in Krakow at least, their training sessions on how to enforce the law aren't taking place until next week.
convex 20 | 3,978
9 Nov 2010 #213
Ok, so this means that a pub has to ban smoking unless they have at least 2 rooms and the 2 room have to be separated by another room?

Yup, so you can expect small pubs to lose quite a bit of business to large chain affairs. You reap what you sow...
landora - | 199
9 Nov 2010 #214
They can go to a non-smoking bar.

There are virtually none in Poland.

I'm so looking forward to the ban, finally I'll be able to come back home after a visit in a pub and not smell of cigarette smoke! I will definitely go out more often now :)
convex 20 | 3,978
9 Nov 2010 #215
There are virtually none in Poland.

There are enough. Apparently the concept isn't that popular though. People don't like going to non smoking bars for some reason.
smurf 39 | 1,981
9 Nov 2010 #216
Yup, so you can expect small pubs to lose quite a bit of business to large chain affairs. You reap what you sow...

I dont think so.
You see the thing is, most people dont smoke, the vast majority actually

A few pubs closed back at home but they dont blame the smoking ban, they blame the economy going to shite and the enforcement of the drink driving laws, something the Polish coppers should learn from, but sorry that's a bit off topic.

I dont think it'll hurt the industry much, it didn't in most the other countries where its in effect.

by the way, i do smoke from time to time and I'm not some anit-smoking tossbag, if someone wants to smoke thats ok, but as the majority of people dont smoke then its only common sense that pubs, and especially restaurants, should be smokefree.

I used to stand outside to smoke back at home and it never did me any harm, quite the opposite, it's a great way to spark up a conversation with other smokers outside.
convex 20 | 3,978
9 Nov 2010 #217
I dont think so.
You see the thing is, most people dont smoke, the vast majority actually

You might want to check who is lobbying for this legislature (and who did in the UK).

The big boys can afford to comply, and won't be impacted. The little guys obviously can't, and the business that is lost by their smokers going to big places won't be made up by people that will now go out to the pub 5 nights a week instead of their usual 1 due to the smoke.

Small places will be affected, and you'll end up with crappy chain places all over the place like on the island.
Teffle 22 | 1,321
9 Nov 2010 #218
I will definitely go out more often now :)

This may not be the general trend though.

Since the ban was introduced in Ireland (2004) pubs have been much less frequented.
Ashleys mind 3 | 456
9 Nov 2010 #219
There are enough. Apparently the concept isn't that popular though. People don't like going to non smoking bars for some reason.

how is a non smoking bar a "concept"?
Olaf 6 | 956
9 Nov 2010 #220
you can expect small pubs to lose quite a bit of business to large chain affairs

AND

I will definitely go out more often now :)

I just put two opinions against each other and I don't think my comment is necessary here, Convex ;)

This may not be the general trend though.

Well, other countries' example have that imposed an actually more strict ban do not support your fears at all.
Teffle 22 | 1,321
9 Nov 2010 #221
Well, other countries' example have that imposed an actually more strict ban do not support your fears at all.

Like?
convex 20 | 3,978
9 Nov 2010 #223
how is a non smoking bar a "concept"?

For the majority of my lifetime, non smoking bars were used like any other marketing device, and they weren't the norm (still aren't in the majority of the world).

I just put two opinions against each other and I don't think my comment is necessary here, Convex ;)

You don't have too, but the proof is in the puddin'. Anyway, for me it's still a private property rights issue. It'll be sad to see the small places go to placate a couple of people too lazy to vote with their wallets.

Well, other countries' example have that imposed an actually more strict ban do not support your fears at all.

Anyway, Holland is reversing the ban for small pubs.

reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6A347820101104

Also, in Scotland, you non smokers really need to pick up the slack:

ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/36/1/149.full

Results We found that the Scottish ban led to a 10% decrease in sales [P = 0.02, 95% confidence interval (CI) −19% to −2%] and a 14% decrease in customers (P = 0.02, 95% CI −26% to −2%).

It's a handout to large pubs. The Dutch realize it, and the every country has evidence backing it.
Teffle 22 | 1,321
9 Nov 2010 #224
Sweden.

One country.

I see Convex has justed posted on this.

Pubs in Ireland definitely quieter - the UK too. French bars look quieter too. I don't have enough regular experience of pubs in other countries to comment but I'm sure the ones I've mentioned are not unique.
smurf 39 | 1,981
9 Nov 2010 #225
Since the ban was introduced in Ireland (2004) pubs have been much less frequented.

As I said in my post, the smoking ban isn't really to blame for that.
The Vintners associations and most other publicians in Ireland but the blame squarely on 2 factors,
1. the strict drink-driving laws, (which aren't strict enough in my opinion) and
2. the economy

The smoking ban was in for a long time before the country starting going downhill and I'd bet my last shilling that if a vote was taken on it in Ireland the non-smokers who go to bars would out vote the smokers.

You might want to check who is lobbying for this legislature (and who did in the UK)

Why? It's not like I can vote here anyway and what difference does it make :-/

Small places will be affected, and you'll end up with crappy chain places all over the place like on the island.

What island? Ireland? There's not that many chain pubs in Ireland, sure there's a few companies, but they don't operate chains, each pub is usual different, for it to be a chain, then they'd all look the same and I doubt paddys would go to chain pubs.

Unless you mean britain, yea they have chains alright, like Witherspoons, that's the name aint it? I can't really say anythng on this, I've only ever been in one and that was in Edinburgh, I dont really know much about the pub culture in uk, coz anytime I've been there it's only been for things like weddings, funerals etc so I dont do get a chance to do a lot of hanging out

Anyway, everyone says the same thing before it comes into effect in all the countries that have it now,
it'll ruin the pub economy, it'll cut jobs, people won't go etc,
but from what I've seen back in Ireland, then that's not really the case, so long as Poland's economy keeps growing then people will have money to go to pubs/restaurants.

I shoulda been done in the summer though, when people could sit outside in beergardens, doing it before the onset of winter is a bit thick in fairness
Teffle 22 | 1,321
9 Nov 2010 #226
The smoking ban was in for a long time before the country starting going downhill

So that's the economy theory out then.
Ashleys mind 3 | 456
9 Nov 2010 #227
Hmmm, less people in pubs or less people dying off heart and lung disease...?

Are smokers without their wits!?
Teffle 22 | 1,321
9 Nov 2010 #228
Are smokers without their wits!?

And are you missing the point?

This originates in post 221.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
9 Nov 2010 #229
Results We found that the Scottish ban led to a 10% decrease in sales [P = 0.02, 95% confidence interval (CI) −19% to −2%] and a 14% decrease in customers (P = 0.02, 95% CI −26% to −2%).

I think a lot of that can be attributed to older, stuck-in-their-ways men refusing to change their habits. For a lot of older Scots, the pub was a ritual to be taken seriously. Once the smoking ban came in, they stopped going (stuck in their ways) - especially to the "social clubs" that provided ridiculously cheap booze for them.

A lot can also be attributed to the high price of alcohol in general in pubs - before, people would go out to get drunk. Now, because supermarket booze is much, much cheaper (even cheaper than in Poland for a normal beer) - people are staying at home, getting drunk and then going out.

How can pubs possibly compete when a pint is about 50p in the shop and 3 pounds in the pub?
Cardno85 31 | 976
9 Nov 2010 #230
The smoking ban was in for a long time before the country starting going downhill and I'd bet my last shilling that if a vote was taken on it in Ireland the non-smokers who go to bars would out vote the smokers.

This would be a bit of a stupid vote to be honest. We have seen in the posts before that the majority of people in most countries do not smoke. But how many studies have been done (and how would one conduct a fair study?) on the amount of people who frequent bars on a regular basis that smoke and those who don't.

I have found through working and frequenting pubs in lots of different countries that the majority of regulars are smokers (this is just from personal experience). These are the people who come back time after time, in cold, rain or shine. This is why the smoking ban in Scotland is affecting mostly small town pubs where these regulars have the option of incredibly cheap alcohol in shops and they can sit and smoke in each other's houses.

How can pubs possibly compete when a pint is about 50p in the shop and 3 pounds in the pub?

That sums up my point perfectly. There is a movement amongst the licensed trade groups to raise prices in Supermarkets.
smurf 39 | 1,981
9 Nov 2010 #231
less people in pubs or less people dying off heart and lung disease...?

Yea I'm with you on this one

This is why the smoking ban in Scotland is affecting mostly small town pubs where these regulars have the option of incredibly cheap alcohol in shops and they can sit and smoke in each other's houses.

Again this isn't probably just down to the smoking ban, drink-driving laws and the economy are probably more to blame

But I agree with you on the price thing and there's a fairly simple solution, publicians are well known for being greedy so-and-sos, they should lower the prices of the drink, drink has a huge make up in pubs/restaurants, if an offo can make a profit on cheaper booze then the pub can also make a profit, albeit a smaller one, but a profit is nonetheless a profit.
Moonlighting 31 | 233
9 Nov 2010 #232
Why did restaurants, pubs and theater lobbies stopped the tradition of having a "smoke room" (not sure about the English word though, in French we say "fumoir") ? Then it was OK until people remained courteous and asked their neighbour if they'd mind their smoking ? Then of course if the neighbour expressed the fact that smokes annoys him/her, the smoker would refrain.

Unfortunately with the advent of "It's my freedom, I have the right to this, I have the right to that, and blah blah blah...", manners disappeared and excess triumphed in many domains. I'm happy of this ban on smoking, although I'm an occasional smoker myself. I had stopped going to several places because of the heavy moke. It's suffocating and makes me sick. I smoke pipe and, due to its strong smell which not everybody likes, I only smoke it at home. Which reminds me of the stunned look of a Polish girl to whom I had just said "Od czasu do czasu, bardzo lubię dobrą fajkę".
Olaf 6 | 956
9 Nov 2010 #233
Anyway, for me it's still a private property rights issue.

- Agreed, with the exception that such a private place is open to public and hence some public issues occur (like safety and fire extinguishers for instance, emergency exits, food inspection etc. whatever) with smoking problem being one of the issues that unfortunately needs regulating by law.

Holland is reversing the ban for small pubs.

Holland is veery liberal in terms of what is allowed by law;)
landora - | 199
9 Nov 2010 #234
There are enough. Apparently the concept isn't that popular though. People don't like going to non smoking bars for some reason.

I don't know of any non-smoking pubs in Poznań. I would go to one in a second. What is the problem anyway, so hard to go outside for a smoke instead of breathing it out at everyone inside?
trener zolwia 1 | 940
9 Nov 2010 #235
We have seen in the posts before that the majority of people in most countries do not smoke.

Excellent. And exactly right. And this slaughters the specious "majority doesn't smoke" argument.

Holland is reversing the ban for small pubs.

Good. Maybe common sense will win out.
smurf 39 | 1,981
9 Nov 2010 #236
so hard to go outside for a smoke instead of breathing it out at everyone inside?

exactly, what the **** is the problem with smokers...? Have some decency and step outside for a minute or two.
convex 20 | 3,978
9 Nov 2010 #237
Agreed, with the exception that such a private place is open to public and hence some public issues occur (like safety and fire extinguishers for instance, emergency exits, food inspection etc. whatever) with smoking problem being one of the issues that unfortunately needs regulating by law.

The place you're talking about makes it's money by selling you poison.

I don't know of any non-smoking pubs in Poznań.

Read up in the thread. There're area a couple of links (with places in Poznan).

exactly, what the **** is the problem with smokers...? Have some decency and step outside for a minute or two.

I quit smoking a while back, but anyway, I'm speaking as the owner of a bar, not a patron. Why are you telling me how to run my place? Just don't come to my establishment if it bothers you. Isn't that easy enough? You don't pay the rent. Smokers drink more, they drink more spirits and mixed drinks. The economical trade-off isn't equal.
Olaf 6 | 956
10 Nov 2010 #238
selling you poison

What poison???

Also following your argument - I should be poisoned only whan I want it and pay for it. Not like now. Plus, there are less stinky poisons;)
smurf 39 | 1,981
10 Nov 2010 #239
I quit smoking a while back, but anyway, I'm speaking as the owner of a bar, not a patron. Why are you telling me how to run my place? Just don't come to my establishment if it bothers you. Isn't that easy enough? You don't pay the rent. Smokers drink more, they drink more spirits and mixed drinks. The economical trade-off isn't equal.

ah you dont wannabe friends?

Makes no difference to me if your a publician, i managed a pub back at home for a while & if you want some advice I dont mind giving you some. If I were you I'd build a really nice beer garden with some outside gas heaters and install a few flatscreen tvs for sport. I'd sit outside with my smoker friends and it'd be great craic altogether.

I'm a drinker, so smoking in pubs will not stop me goin to pubs either way, however it would be a far more enjoyable experience if the smokers thought about the non-smokers for a change and just smoked outside, what harm would that do? None and you well know it
Ashleys mind 3 | 456
10 Nov 2010 #240
Smokers are in denial.... Just like gambling addicts. It's NOT socially acceptable to expect ANYONE to breathe in your cigarette smoke. Point f*cking blank.


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