Smoking ban in Polish bars and restaurants (AT LAST!)

Totally agree. This new law is not that good for either sides [non-smokers and addicts, as I like to call them;) ] but hopefully it will work for the best...

Don't hold your breath ;) Sanepid, who are going to be responsible for enforcing it, only work between 7am and 3pm, and here in Krakow at least, their training sessions on how to enforce the law aren't taking place until next week.

Yup, so you can expect small pubs to lose quite a bit of business to large chain affairs. You reap what you sow...

There are virtually none in Poland.

I'm so looking forward to the ban, finally I'll be able to come back home after a visit in a pub and not smell of cigarette smoke! I will definitely go out more often now :)

There are enough. Apparently the concept isn't that popular though. People don't like going to non smoking bars for some reason.

I dont think so.
You see the thing is, most people dont smoke, the vast majority actually

A few pubs closed back at home but they dont blame the smoking ban, they blame the economy going to shite and the enforcement of the drink driving laws, something the Polish coppers should learn from, but sorry that's a bit off topic.

I dont think it'll hurt the industry much, it didn't in most the other countries where its in effect.

by the way, i do smoke from time to time and I'm not some anit-smoking tossbag, if someone wants to smoke thats ok, but as the majority of people dont smoke then its only common sense that pubs, and especially restaurants, should be smokefree.

I used to stand outside to smoke back at home and it never did me any harm, quite the opposite, it's a great way to spark up a conversation with other smokers outside.

You might want to check who is lobbying for this legislature (and who did in the UK).

The big boys can afford to comply, and won't be impacted. The little guys obviously can't, and the business that is lost by their smokers going to big places won't be made up by people that will now go out to the pub 5 nights a week instead of their usual 1 due to the smoke.

Small places will be affected, and you'll end up with crappy chain places all over the place like on the island.

This may not be the general trend though.

Since the ban was introduced in Ireland (2004) pubs have been much less frequented.

how is a non smoking bar a "concept"?

AND


I just put two opinions against each other and I don't think my comment is necessary here, Convex ;)


Well, other countries' example have that imposed an actually more strict ban do not support your fears at all.

Like?

Sweden.

For the majority of my lifetime, non smoking bars were used like any other marketing device, and they weren't the norm (still aren't in the majority of the world).


You don't have too, but the proof is in the puddin'. Anyway, for me it's still a private property rights issue. It'll be sad to see the small places go to placate a couple of people too lazy to vote with their wallets.


Anyway, Holland is reversing the ban for small pubs.

reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6A347820101104

Also, in Scotland, you non smokers really need to pick up the slack:

ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/36/1/149.full

Results We found that the Scottish ban led to a 10% decrease in sales [P = 0.02, 95% confidence interval (CI) −19% to −2%] and a 14% decrease in customers (P = 0.02, 95% CI −26% to −2%).

It's a handout to large pubs. The Dutch realize it, and the every country has evidence backing it.

One country.

I see Convex has justed posted on this.

Pubs in Ireland definitely quieter - the UK too. French bars look quieter too. I don't have enough regular experience of pubs in other countries to comment but I'm sure the ones I've mentioned are not unique.

As I said in my post, the smoking ban isn't really to blame for that.
The Vintners associations and most other publicians in Ireland but the blame squarely on 2 factors,
1. the strict drink-driving laws, (which aren't strict enough in my opinion) and
2. the economy

The smoking ban was in for a long time before the country starting going downhill and I'd bet my last shilling that if a vote was taken on it in Ireland the non-smokers who go to bars would out vote the smokers.


Why? It's not like I can vote here anyway and what difference does it make :-/


What island? Ireland? There's not that many chain pubs in Ireland, sure there's a few companies, but they don't operate chains, each pub is usual different, for it to be a chain, then they'd all look the same and I doubt paddys would go to chain pubs.

Unless you mean britain, yea they have chains alright, like Witherspoons, that's the name aint it? I can't really say anythng on this, I've only ever been in one and that was in Edinburgh, I dont really know much about the pub culture in uk, coz anytime I've been there it's only been for things like weddings, funerals etc so I dont do get a chance to do a lot of hanging out

Anyway, everyone says the same thing before it comes into effect in all the countries that have it now,
it'll ruin the pub economy, it'll cut jobs, people won't go etc,
but from what I've seen back in Ireland, then that's not really the case, so long as Poland's economy keeps growing then people will have money to go to pubs/restaurants.

I shoulda been done in the summer though, when people could sit outside in beergardens, doing it before the onset of winter is a bit thick in fairness

So that's the economy theory out then.

Hmmm, less people in pubs or less people dying off heart and lung disease...?

Are smokers without their wits!?

And are you missing the point?

This originates in post 221.

I think a lot of that can be attributed to older, stuck-in-their-ways men refusing to change their habits. For a lot of older Scots, the pub was a ritual to be taken seriously. Once the smoking ban came in, they stopped going (stuck in their ways) - especially to the "social clubs" that provided ridiculously cheap booze for them.

A lot can also be attributed to the high price of alcohol in general in pubs - before, people would go out to get drunk. Now, because supermarket booze is much, much cheaper (even cheaper than in Poland for a normal beer) - people are staying at home, getting drunk and then going out.

How can pubs possibly compete when a pint is about 50p in the shop and 3 pounds in the pub?

This would be a bit of a stupid vote to be honest. We have seen in the posts before that the majority of people in most countries do not smoke. But how many studies have been done (and how would one conduct a fair study?) on the amount of people who frequent bars on a regular basis that smoke and those who don't.

I have found through working and frequenting pubs in lots of different countries that the majority of regulars are smokers (this is just from personal experience). These are the people who come back time after time, in cold, rain or shine. This is why the smoking ban in Scotland is affecting mostly small town pubs where these regulars have the option of incredibly cheap alcohol in shops and they can sit and smoke in each other's houses.


That sums up my point perfectly. There is a movement amongst the licensed trade groups to raise prices in Supermarkets.

Yea I'm with you on this one


Again this isn't probably just down to the smoking ban, drink-driving laws and the economy are probably more to blame

But I agree with you on the price thing and there's a fairly simple solution, publicians are well known for being greedy so-and-sos, they should lower the prices of the drink, drink has a huge make up in pubs/restaurants, if an offo can make a profit on cheaper booze then the pub can also make a profit, albeit a smaller one, but a profit is nonetheless a profit.

Why did restaurants, pubs and theater lobbies stopped the tradition of having a "smoke room" (not sure about the English word though, in French we say "fumoir") ? Then it was OK until people remained courteous and asked their neighbour if they'd mind their smoking ? Then of course if the neighbour expressed the fact that smokes annoys him/her, the smoker would refrain.

Unfortunately with the advent of "It's my freedom, I have the right to this, I have the right to that, and blah blah blah...", manners disappeared and excess triumphed in many domains. I'm happy of this ban on smoking, although I'm an occasional smoker myself. I had stopped going to several places because of the heavy moke. It's suffocating and makes me sick. I smoke pipe and, due to its strong smell which not everybody likes, I only smoke it at home. Which reminds me of the stunned look of a Polish girl to whom I had just said "Od czasu do czasu, bardzo lubię dobrą fajkę".

- Agreed, with the exception that such a private place is open to public and hence some public issues occur (like safety and fire extinguishers for instance, emergency exits, food inspection etc. whatever) with smoking problem being one of the issues that unfortunately needs regulating by law.


Holland is veery liberal in terms of what is allowed by law;)

I don't know of any non-smoking pubs in Poznań. I would go to one in a second. What is the problem anyway, so hard to go outside for a smoke instead of breathing it out at everyone inside?

Excellent. And exactly right. And this slaughters the specious "majority doesn't smoke" argument.


Good. Maybe common sense will win out.

exactly, what the **** is the problem with smokers...? Have some decency and step outside for a minute or two.

The place you're talking about makes it's money by selling you poison.


Read up in the thread. There're area a couple of links (with places in Poznan).


I quit smoking a while back, but anyway, I'm speaking as the owner of a bar, not a patron. Why are you telling me how to run my place? Just don't come to my establishment if it bothers you. Isn't that easy enough? You don't pay the rent. Smokers drink more, they drink more spirits and mixed drinks. The economical trade-off isn't equal.

What poison???

Also following your argument - I should be poisoned only whan I want it and pay for it. Not like now. Plus, there are less stinky poisons;)

ah you dont wannabe friends?

Makes no difference to me if your a publician, i managed a pub back at home for a while & if you want some advice I dont mind giving you some. If I were you I'd build a really nice beer garden with some outside gas heaters and install a few flatscreen tvs for sport. I'd sit outside with my smoker friends and it'd be great craic altogether.

I'm a drinker, so smoking in pubs will not stop me goin to pubs either way, however it would be a far more enjoyable experience if the smokers thought about the non-smokers for a change and just smoked outside, what harm would that do? None and you well know it

Smokers are in denial.... Just like gambling addicts. It's NOT socially acceptable to expect ANYONE to breathe in your cigarette smoke. Point f*cking blank.