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Restoring the Port of Elbląg?


Harry
26 Jun 2013 #61
That is probably an figure inflated by opponents to use as a scare tactic.

It's actually the figure from the link which you put in your very first post in this thread.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
26 Jun 2013 #62
That is probably an figure inflated by opponents to use as a scare tactic

You do realise that in order to make Elblag even remotely viable as a seaport, they would have to do almost total renovation of the port (including a huge amount of dredging), rebuild a railway bridge, build some locks and build the canal. It would be expensive, expensive work.

Smaller figures have also been mentioned.

By people who have no idea what large projects cost.

Ain't there no such thing in Poland as muncipal bonds?

No. No-one would trust the municipality to actually spend the money on what it's supposed to be spent on.
OP Polonius3 994 | 12,367
26 Jun 2013 #63
But since then other figures have been floated. Maybe they could get the army, boy scouts and volunteer townsfolk to do much of the digging for free. Where there's a will, there's a way!
Harry
26 Jun 2013 #64
Where there's a will, there's a way!

But there's no will.

Oh and while boy scouts can do many things, large-scale construction projects tend to be beyond the range of their penknives.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
26 Jun 2013 #65
Maybe they could get the army, boy scouts and volunteer townsfolk to do much of the digging for free.

That might have worked with the Panama Canal, but these days?

Where there's a will, there's a way!

You forget about something called "money".
OP Polonius3 994 | 12,367
26 Jun 2013 #66
Volunteer labour doesn't cost a dime, soldiers do what they're told and scouts are civic-minded sorts...
delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
26 Jun 2013 #67
I've heard many far fetched things from you Polonius, but this is by far the most ridiculous yet.

Do you think they could also rebuild a railway bridge and dredge the port?
jon357 74 | 21,964
26 Jun 2013 #68
Volunteer labour doesn't cost a dime, soldiers do what they're told and scouts are civic-minded

You've really cheered me up with that one. It's a hilarious suggestion, even from a PiS supporter. Why not suggest getting Tinkie Winkie to build a motorway when the Boy Scouts start to tire.
OP Polonius3 994 | 12,367
26 Jun 2013 #69
Do you think they could also rebuild a railway bridge and dredge the port?

If Donny Boy gave his OK, ways would be found to get it done. What's more, you'd be all for it.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
26 Jun 2013 #70
I wouldn't, I'd still call it a massive waste of money and an environmental crime.
jon357 74 | 21,964
27 Jun 2013 #71
a massive waste of money

Not if the

Boy Scouts

dig the deep water port. Perhaps the WI can build the approach roads.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,149
27 Jun 2013 #72
Probably because he realised that it's not worth spending a billion zloty on something that will only allow ships up to 5-6m draft anyway.

A lot of cargo around Baltic is being carried by small ships like this one: balticshipping.dk/fleet.htm and cost of 1 billion is the highest out of many mentioned.

A team of experts wouldn't bother wasting their time on such a moronic scheme:

Yes because the expat says so and expats know it all straight away :)))
jon357 74 | 21,964
27 Jun 2013 #73
A lot of cargo around Baltic is being carried by small ships like this one

And there is no suggestion that extra capacity is needed in Elblag.

expat

I don't think any have posted in this thread.
OP Polonius3 994 | 12,367
27 Jun 2013 #74
Everybody seems to be forgetting one important thing: the livelihood and wellbeing of the poor people of Elbląg and its envrions.
jon357 74 | 21,964
27 Jun 2013 #75
Does that depend on a pointless deep-water port being built at huge cost?
OP Polonius3 994 | 12,367
27 Jun 2013 #76
Poland has enough deep-water ports. It could use a shallow-water port for smaller vessels and there's plenty of those about. Maybe the excursion-boat option could be developed. Or a special economic area declared. Sadly, it seems the politicans have all travelled to Elbląg to further their own politcal ends and will soon lose interest.
jon357 74 | 21,964
27 Jun 2013 #77
Perhaps they could get the Boy Scouts to build a temple of divine providence instead.
Harry
27 Jun 2013 #78
A lot of cargo around Baltic is being carried by small ships like this one:

That boat cannot use the local harbour at Elblag, not even if the illegal channel to the sea were to be dug.

Yes because the expat says so and expats know it all straight away :)))

Not only expats (not that any have posted in this thread), anybody who has two braincells to rub together. Anybody who has two braincells to rub together understands that if Poland did need to develop a shallow-draught port, it would be better to develop one of the numerous Polish ports which already have access to the sea and thus avoid the need to spend hundreds of millions on digging a channel to the sea that would be environmentally disastrous.
Nile 1 | 154
27 Jun 2013 #79
Wouldn't it be possible to use the harbor for limited commercial ventures confined only to the Baltic sea. Along the lines north south, east west?
Harry
27 Jun 2013 #80
Wouldn't it be possible to use the harbor for limited commercial ventures confined only to the Baltic sea.

None that cannot be served by the existing ports at Gdansk and Gdynia. And even if one wanted to develop a third port in the area, it makes far more sense to pick an existing port which doesn't need hundreds of millions to be spent digging a channel to the sea which would be environmentally disastrous.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,149
27 Jun 2013 #81
And there is no suggestion that extra capacity is needed in Elblag.

Where ?

That boat cannot use the local harbour at Elblag

It could.
jon357 74 | 21,964
27 Jun 2013 #82
Where ?

I know it isn't your first language, but read it carefully.
Harry
27 Jun 2013 #83
It could.

Please stop with the lies Greggy: that boat has a laden draught of 4.2m, Elblag local harbour can only offer 2.5m of depth.

Face it, you've lost this one, several times over.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
27 Jun 2013 #84
Wouldn't it be possible to use the harbor for limited commercial ventures confined only to the Baltic sea. Along the lines north south, east west?

It can be used already for such - there used to be cruises to Kaliningrad from there for instance. The fact that these cruises no longer run while they still run from Gdansk suggests that the market simply isn't there.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,149
27 Jun 2013 #85
Elblag local harbour can only offer 2.5m of depth.

It can be increased and that's what is regularly done on the ways to all Polish ports.

Face it, you've lost this one

And you won, already when you said that expats know it all straight away :))) You win the prize !!
Harry
27 Jun 2013 #86
It can be increased and that's what is regularly done on the ways to all Polish ports.

ROFL!!! Name another port in Poland which regularly has its water depth increased by 70%. Go on!
ShawnH 8 | 1,497
27 Jun 2013 #87
Wow Harry, are you suggesting Polish Engineers are incapable of dredging 2.7 m from a harbour? Things must be dire there with all the good contractors in the UK.
Harry
27 Jun 2013 #88
Wow Harry, are you suggesting Polish Engineers are incapable of dredging 2.7 m from a harbour?

Of course they can. I'm just asking Greggy to tell us where they regularly increase channel depth by 70%.
ShawnH 8 | 1,497
27 Jun 2013 #89
increase channel depth by 70%.

70% is an irrelevant figure. The 2.7 m figure is what's important.

Not that I would support the revised port. In principal it would be bad for the environment. Gdansk is not that far away and their isn't that much import / export traffic to justify a new port. Finally, my opinion doesn't even matter, because I don't live there.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
27 Jun 2013 #90
It can be increased and that's what is regularly done on the ways to all Polish ports.

And those ports are proven and can be expanded further for a similar price. Swinjouscie in particular could really benefit from being upgraded to take Baltimax ships now that the S3 is well on the way to completion.

In principal it would be bad for the environment.

It's clear that it would involve the destruction of a Natura 2000 area and therefore is a no-go.

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