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Prime Minister in Krynica on European integration


Ironside 48 | 9,844
9 Sep 2011 #1
Today from Krynica, tomorrow from Warsaw, but also from Brussels and from Strasbourg a very powerful voice should be heard, sustaining the spirit of all those who believe in the meaning of European integration, not only in the sense of the status quo, but also to further promote integration,' the Prime Minister said.

I like that pathetic atempt. He has noting to say and has to pretend at the same time that his words actually have some meaning.

He also asked for more monies and expressed hope for integrating Belorussia into the Borg.
Crow 137 | 7,721
9 Sep 2011 #2
it is really tragic to me to see desperate Poland`s situation. In order to save itself within the EU, Poland needs more Slavic countries in EU around Poland. But, automatically, being in EU, Slavic countries aren`t under prevailing influence of Poland`s (Slavic) interests but serve to the agenda of leading EU powers.

So, i wouldn`t say that current position of Poland looks like `Trojan horse` that is by EU sent to the other Slavs. No, Poland looks more like a man who is crucified in order to attract his helpers (brothers and friends) into the trap
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Sep 2011 #3
With the ratification/accession of Ukraine, Croatia, Belarus and Serbia, Poland would have more natural partners.
Crow 137 | 7,721
9 Sep 2011 #4
not in EU. In Visegrad Group, maybe.

In EU,... Ukraine, Belarus and Serbia could all stand by Poland and still, you don`t have OUR SLAVIC rules there, nor they are even taken in calculations. So, on the long run, leading EU players controlling situation.

Also, there is no chance that Poland ever make significant influence on Croatia. Not while is Germany stronger then Poland. Germany absolutely controls Croatian elite and society.
PWEI 3 | 612
9 Sep 2011 #5
it is really tragic to me to see desperate Poland`s situation.

Don't be sad: Poland isn't in a situation which is at all bad, despite what certain ultra-nationalist morons think.

And no matter how bad things get for Poland, at least Poles will also be able to justifiably look down on the pariahs of Europe, the murderous rapist scum that inhabit Serbia.
Crow 137 | 7,721
9 Sep 2011 #6
the murderous rapist scum that inhabit Serbia.

believe me man. EU and NATO controlled media would destroy your brain. Don `t trust in their lies. Yesterday they lied on Serbs. Tomorrow, they would lie on Poles
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Sep 2011 #7
Germany and Austria have a stronghold on Croatia, that's true. Yeah, Germany and France would curtail the Slavic influence for sure. I wonder what Merkel and Sarkozy have to say about Poles.
Crow 137 | 7,721
9 Sep 2011 #8
Lesser Serbian presents on Adriatic, lesser Poland`s presents on warm seas. Russia would provide its access to the warm seas via Bulgaria and Montenegro and after all, thru new alternatives, if you understand me. But, Poland. Poland is squeezed by her allied partners.

Speaking of Poland`s access to the warm seas, Poland can only hope in restored power of the Serbia. Strong Serbia would achieve prevailing influence on Montenegro. With it, influence of Poland there would have primate above Russian interests or in worse case would be balanced with them. Then, strong Serbia would attract Serb Republic that is now within Bosnia-Herzegovina. All that would furthermore strengthen Serbs. Ultimately, Serbs would re-gain their influence on Dalmatia (with it on eastern coast of Adriatic) that is now under control and within Croatia. But, if Dalmatia ever re-join with Serbia, German influence would be absolutely repelled far from the Adriatic and space for Poland would be created.

On the other side, eventual total destruction of Serbs would be sign that has come the moment for the slow death of Poland, the moment for final germanziation of Poland. Germany and France would pointing on Croatia, just suggest to the Poland: ``follow example of germanized Croatia and live or try to stay Slavic and die``
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Sep 2011 #9
Crow, Dalmatia was a part of Yugoslavia and not Serbia. Why the talk of that region? I'm sorry but I just feel that you are too much like the Serbian Council in that last post. Those people that convened a meeting in Athens and even Milosević wasn't as radical. I can see their faces but I can't remember their names. Poles cannot work with radicals. Poles can work with pro-Serbian factions but not out-and-out bigots who pour the nationalist rhetoric on thick.

Germany will never cede their influence there. Too much business in it for them.
PWEI 3 | 612
9 Sep 2011 #10
Crow, Dalmatia was a part of Yugoslavia and not Serbia. Why the talk of that region?

Because he's a Serb and so views all land near Serbia as rightfully belonging to Serbia and all people in that region as targets for raping and/or murdering.
Crow 137 | 7,721
9 Sep 2011 #11
row, Dalmatia was a part of Yugoslavia and not Serbia.

yes. We can restore Yugoslavia (BDW, creation of Yugoslavia was among else, idea of Polish elite)

and also, let me inform you that before Yugoslavia was created, after dissolution of Austro-Hungaria (where Dalmatia had history as unique region) at the end of WWI, Dalmatia issued demand to the Croatia (Zagreb) with exactly these words: ``if you continue to hesitate to together with Serbia, join into United South Slavic state, Dalmatia won`t wait for Croatia.`` Slavonija followed Dalmatia and was ready to immediately become part of Yugoslavia.

It was tragic mistake by Serbia to allow that Croatia swallow Dalmatia. They did it on the behalf of Germany. But even now, there is Dalmatian movement for separation from Croatia. Independent Dalmatia or Dalmatia within some new Yugoslavia or in some new Serbia.. that`s the only and last chance for Poland`s influence on Adriatic. Without presents in Dalmatia, even if present in Montenegro via Serbia, Poland would be straitened and isolated. Montenegro just isn`t enough with Dalmatia in German hands (via Croatia).
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Sep 2011 #13
It was one of the most disastrous events known to humankind, the Yugoslav War. I'm glad that some of their differences have been resolved but the finger pointing has to stop if any kind of integration of values is to take place. Yobs make that very difficult.

Crow, why does Serbia let territory go so easily? I'm not condoning their killing of innocent people by any stretch but at least Mladić and Karadzić understood the meaning of territory. They went against the Vance-Owen plan and stated their case. Kosovo was effectively given up by Belgrade (laziness??) and Dalmatia too.
Crow 137 | 7,721
9 Sep 2011 #14
Because he's a Serb and so views all land near Serbia as rightfully belonging to Serbia and all people in that region as targets for raping and/or murdering.

First of all, that what you just said isn`t truth.

Second and most important, reality of life in Europe would awake Poland. There would be strong Serbs and Poland would have chance or, Serbs would die and Poles would die then.

So my dear, you can BS all night and all day long but, reality,... REALITY
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Sep 2011 #15
Crow, why would Poles die? Who would make them a target?
Crow 137 | 7,721
9 Sep 2011 #16
i wouldn`t say that Serbia gave up easily just from territories but also from people.

and, it was not that easily. It was Germany who desired and sponsored destruction of Yugoslavia and complete NATO/EU behind them in alliance with Islamic league and Israel. i know, such a coalition sound mind-blowing but, that`s how it was, that`s how it is. Think about it
bullfrog 6 | 603
9 Sep 2011 #17
Yeah, Germany and France would curtail the Slavic influence for sure. I wonder what Merkel and Sarkozy have to say about Poles.

before he was President, in 2005, Sarkozy said that Poland was the natural leader in the CEE region within the EU and that as such it should be integrated into the G6 of the EU to represent the region' s interests

s

Today from Krynica, tomorrow from Warsaw, but also from Brussels and from Strasbourg a very powerful voice should be heard, sustaining the spirit of all those who believe in the meaning of European integration, not only in the sense of the status quo, but also to further promote integration,’ the Prime Minister said.

can't be in warsaw, brussels or strasbourg, the quo are playing tomorrow in Zurich!!
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Sep 2011 #18
Then, Crow, there are many Serbs in Kosovo that will be queuing up to talk to you. They paint a very different picture.

Oh, I know they did, Crow. The Avoidable War and Weight in Chains (plus others) taught me all I needed to know. Replace socialism, implant capitalism and plough countries into debt. Vicious sods!
Crow 137 | 7,721
9 Sep 2011 #19
Crow, why would Poles die? Who would make them a target?

those who had and have their interests to destroy Serbs. They moved united against Serbs. Tomorrow, they would unite against Poland

only strong Serbia can support Poland. No, not only directly. Listen,... strong Serbians would attract attention of Russia to stand behind them and Serbs would then insist on Russo-Polish agreement. Such an agreement could be shelter for Poland actually, preventing so called friends of Poland (NATO/EU) to isolate it from warm seas. You see, Russia have obvious interests that Poland live (as Slavic state on Russian western borders), while so called west wants assimilation of Poland. Only that can satisfy them.

See? Serbs would naturally tend to secure presents of Polish interests in the region but, believe me, Russia won`t oppose to it. In that case Russia have alternatives for itself. If Polish influence on Serbs means life for Poland (while in the same time Serbs want that), Russia would let it to happen, as always earlier in history. That`s our- Serbian and Polish real and last chance to take hands of each others, to connect ourselves and form an axis that would become core of future- New Sarmatian Commonwealth, with Polish language as official, with Capital somewhere within Poland. Only this solution means life in era of globalization
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Sep 2011 #20
When are you going to run your pan-Slavic seminars, Crow? ;0 ;) How do you plan to deflate the nationalist sentiment that undoubtedly exists in Slavic countries? When I hear anti-Russian sentiment here (thankfully not that often), I can't say anything. Many Poles lost loved ones and I'd sound disingenuous were I to tell them that the Russians are their best friends. Still, movements forward have to be sought gradually.
Crow 137 | 7,721
9 Sep 2011 #21
Poland should concentrate her efforts to create as much as possible bilateral agreements with Serbia, protecting her vital interests via those agreements. Serbs would then secure Russian protection of those interests, while Poland won`t be in situation to be obliged to Russia. In that situation, any Russian move against those interests would mean that Russia moved against Serbs what is by default of long range Russian vital strategic interests simple impossible.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Sep 2011 #22
What security could Serbia provide to Poland in the event of an attack on her sovereign territory? I assume security to be a vital and paramount area, esp for Poland!!
Crow 137 | 7,721
9 Sep 2011 #23
Poland must create situation that in eyes of Russia, any attack on Poland means attack on Serbia. i explained it already. Poland could do it without being obliged to Russia

Poland should play on two cards:

1. fact that Russia has real interest that Poland exist as Slavic country on Russian western borders and,

2. Serbian factor- because same as in case of Poland, Russia has interest that Serbs exist even if they aren`t under Russian control. Serbs are also vital for other greater plans of Poland
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Sep 2011 #24
Crow, please don't be so naive. NATO even offer a guarantee, not that it would be observed in all cases. What guarantee could Serbia provide to Poland? You know, the Poles would ask for it and if Serbia couldn't deliver, ties would be irreperably damaged.
Crow 137 | 7,721
9 Sep 2011 #25
We both- Poles and Serbs aren`t in situation to expect direct intervention of our partners to help us. Nor Poland can intervene to help Serbia, nor the opposite. its impossible in this moment

But, we should (and we can) create rules that would prepare conditions for it, while in the same time securing our survivor at present
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Sep 2011 #26
And how would those rules look, Crow?

You know I'm in contact with many Poles, right? I have contact with many of their inteligentsia and some business leaders too. I did a class this morning (1-2-1) with one such guy and we discussed business approaches. He told me that the Poles appreciate straight-up approaches to business and to know where they stand. Having lived here for 7 years, I can agree with him. If they get messed around by shilly-shallying and indecisiveness, they will not stand for it.
Crow 137 | 7,721
9 Sep 2011 #27
And how would those rules look, Crow?

read above. As i explained

Let us just for start cooperate economically, as much as possible. Economic interests would prepare ground for political interests
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Sep 2011 #28
Crow, your suggestions are loose. Poles want contingency planning. If A happens, then what is B? Can I educate you on Polish psychological approaches? It was actually a Serb that criticised Poland's joining of NATO. He had many bad words for Poland but he couldn't understand Poland's need for safety. OK, we know that NATO doesn't have Poland's best interests at heart but the principle was there. I had to attack that guy for a basic lack of insight.
Crow 137 | 7,721
9 Sep 2011 #29
He told me that the Poles appreciate straight-up approaches to business and to know where they stand.

exactly

For Polish business, on the relatively short run- EU is prefect solution. NATO, too. On the relatively long run, Serbs are inevitable partners
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Sep 2011 #30
Then you clearly envisage sth. Where do you see the fractious split with the EU coming about, Crow? What will tip them over? Do you feel that the federalists in Europe will get ahead of themselves and thrust unreasonable demands on Poland? Will it be a balance of power issue? NATO has accepted that Poland won't be lunging into Libya in an official capacity. What will change NATO's stance?


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