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Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom?


rychlik 41 | 373
20 Apr 2010 #811
To all conspiracy theorists: why would the Ruski's take out a president that was unpopular in Poland and was going to lose the next election in just a few months? And I don't think the Ruski's could get a copy of the guest list on the plane, so I would rule out that they were targeting someone else. Why would they want to orchestrate this disaster and waste their resources on investigating it with the Poles? Because of this, Katyń has hit the world headlines and sympathy has poured out to Poland. I'm guessing Putin was hoping for all of this?
Wroclaw 44 | 5,386
20 Apr 2010 #812
Here's an example--Accident investigation report of Georgian crash.

far too much for me to read at this time of night. But I did notice something I think relevant.
the air-crew hadn't had enough sleep.

with the polish flight leaving early in the morning and the pilot and crew having to make the necessary pre-flight preparations beforehand... did they get enough sleep? Another shot in the dark from me.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
20 Apr 2010 #813
He is talking about some animation made by a newspaper....not an actual video film....

No, it is a video animation, very well done, and clearly indicating the plane blew up on approach.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,386
20 Apr 2010 #814
and clearly indicating the plane blew up on approach.

i think it might be to emphasise points of impact.
Olga 1 | 330
20 Apr 2010 #815
mz2025 Załóż słuchawki i pogłoś na maxa (część II): 00:52 "Boże mój Boże" (głos księdza, biskupa?) 00:53 'streljaj" (strzelaj) 00:55 przeładowanie broni; 00:57 pierwszy strzał; 01:00 autor filmu "ni chuja sybir"; 01:06 drugi strzał; 01:10 smiechy; 01:13 'ja wam dam kuz..'. (urywa sie, słychać trzeci strzał); 01:16 czwarty strzał; 01:23 "otiec' uchodi, bsio... Kolja" dziadek, uciekamy, koniec, Kola"; 01:23 "ni huja siebie" (ja pier...le)

Page 7 in comments section
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convex 20 | 3,978
20 Apr 2010 #816
So lets get back to Crows original question. If he was assassinated...who did it, and why?
pgtx 30 | 3,158
20 Apr 2010 #818
So lets get back to Crows original question. If he was assassinated...who did it, and why?

after 28 pages of deliberations, we are still in the post #1... good job...
wildrover 98 | 4,451
20 Apr 2010 #819
i think it might be to emphasise points of impact.

Thats it exactly....just not a very precise animation....done by somebody who knows little about avation , who wasn,t there , and has no facts to base it on....

Apart from that...its great....
convex 20 | 3,978
20 Apr 2010 #820
The problem with that theory is that the president was on his way out. Now he has been made a martyr. The government was already following the PO line, and that probably wasn't going to change (might now with a bit of sympathy vote). I don't see the benefit to Tusk and Putin.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
20 Apr 2010 #821
Just to give people an idea of what the pilots were dealing with - here's a video of a landing in Zurich with 175m visibility to ILS cat IIb standards.

youtube.com/watch?v=EgeT-F9-1KI&feature=related

What on earth were the pilots thinking?
convex 20 | 3,978
20 Apr 2010 #822
Just to give people an idea of what the pilots were dealing with - here's a video of a landing in Zurich with 175m visibility to ILS cat IIb standards.

Thanks for putting things into perspective.

500ft sounds like quite a bit unless you're traveling at 300kph...
Olga 1 | 330
20 Apr 2010 #823
I don't see the benefit to Tusk and Putin.

The benefit to Tusk is that his major opponents are out of the picture, giving him a pretty good shot at winning the election which, if he does, is a major benefit to Putin. And you can't dispute the fact that Tusk has benefitted greatly...Kaczynski's party has been annihilated.
f stop 25 | 2,513
20 Apr 2010 #824
Correction--from the beginning my stance has been "do not blame the pilot so quickly.

really? No - from the beginning you insisted that this was a russian plot. You should re-read some of the trash you posted seething with hatred for russians.
czar 1 | 143
20 Apr 2010 #825
if an xplosive that was small and silent was installed in the wing do you think the poles would have found it in 130 hrs. then again if they found it at all it would be a problem.

also what happed to a tower/lines that was suppossedly hit,,,or not,,,any pics??? i realize it may just be witness accounts but what happend to that?

hold on a big black van just pulled up let me see what they want brb.
convex 20 | 3,978
20 Apr 2010 #826
The benefit to Tusk is that his major opponents are out of the picture, giving him a pretty good shot at winning the election which, if he does, is a major benefit to Putin. And you can't dispute the fact that Tusk has benefitted greatly...Kaczynski's party has been annihilated.

Opponent. With 20% approval ratings, Kaczynski wasn't going anywhere but early retirement this summer. Regarding PiS, Jaroslaw has always been the brains behind the the party. However, Lech was definately the more likable, Maria didn't hurt here, and she really came across as an incredibly sympathetic person. I don't know enough about Jaroslaws personal life to comment....no one does.

Anyway, I digress...

For the Senat:

Krystyna Bochenek - PO - deputy speaker
Janina Fetlińska - PiS
Stanisław Zając - PiS

As for members of the Sejm:

Leszek Deptuła - PSL
Wiesław Woda - PSL
Edward Wojtas - PSL
Grzegorz Dolniak - PO
Sebastian Karpiniuk - PO
Arkadiusz Rybicki - PO
Maciej Płażyński - Co-founder of PO, ran on an independent ticket
Grażyna Gęsicka - Leader of the PiS Caucus in the Sejm
Przemysław Gosiewski - PiS
Aleksandra Natalli-Świat - PiS (and all around decent human being, lit a candle at her office)
Krzysztof Putra - PiS, deputy speaker
Zbigniew Wassermann - PiS
Jerzy Szmajdziński - SLD
Jolanta Szymanek-Deresz - SLD

So, the argument that PiS has been annihilated doesn't hold much water.
Olga 1 | 330
20 Apr 2010 #827
No - from the beginning you insisted that this was a russian plot.

From the beginning my stance was they had plenty of reason to do it. And I still fully believe they did, whether you like that or not--so get off it.

Here's a very interesting article on this. It reports that a Tup went down in the vicinity recently before this crash. It's written in Polish though, unfortunately....

wolnemedia.net/?p=21253
czar 1 | 143
20 Apr 2010 #828
neighbors just ordered pizza...

even google map has what i would guess as proper topographical mapping

i hate to say this but even those trees dont look real like they were cut manmade

and yeah i was trying to notice if the pilot looked a little russian.
convex 20 | 3,978
20 Apr 2010 #829
Seriously? Wolne media? It's like Polish Alex Jones.
Olga 1 | 330
20 Apr 2010 #830
I don't know whether to give this much weight... but has anyone heard the rumors that the guy who shot the crash-shooting video was killed... by stabbing is what some are saying?

Will we ever know, even if he was?
f stop 25 | 2,513
20 Apr 2010 #831
but has anyone heard the rumors

I'm sure you'll find some lunatic that will say so, and demand that we look at his link.
grethomory 1 | 154
20 Apr 2010 #832
The Question you should ask is this...what would anyone have to gain by shooting the Polish president? What's a stake?
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
20 Apr 2010 #833
I don't think any explosions visibly occured in any films, joe. Not the ones I've seen.

OK...Now, this the THIRD time...I give you the RIA Novosti link, for everyone...Remember, this a simulation...OK...BUT,you tell me what YOU see...Now, as far as I know, this not on YouTube, so I can't embed it...But just click on link:

en.rian.ru/video/20100410/158515224.html]

Now, this post on April 10, 2010 or 4-10-10...I do not say this is Gospel truth, merely that it is put out by a major Russian news site...I think it is of interest.
skysoulmate 14 | 1,297
20 Apr 2010 #834
Just to give people an idea of what the pilots were dealing with - here's a video of a landing in Zurich with 175m visibility to ILS cat IIb standards.

Based on the number of lights it looks like 500-600RVR or 175 meters. Pretty "standard" low viz approach.

I definitely see the point you're trying to make but I wouldn't go as far as saying "What on earth were the pilots thinking?" because you and I weren't there, we don't have all the details yet and the actual findings might point in a totally different direction. We simply don't know just yet...

Personally, I can't see any signs of a conspiracy as of yet but we'll have to wait and see...
Olga 1 | 330
20 Apr 2010 #835
Are you not aware that U.S. Patriot missiles to be deployed in Poland within weeks??? Specifically, for security against Russia. The missile defence shield was simply amended, not withdrawn.

kyivpost.com/news/world/detail/64378/

No motive, you say? LOL Does anyone actually follow the news?
Jed - | 165
20 Apr 2010 #836
U.S. Patriot missiles

Your paranoia is much more dangerous than U.S. Patriot missiles - please, put them there a.s.a.p.!
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
20 Apr 2010 #837
I definitely see the point you're trying to make but I wouldn't go as far as saying "What on earth were the pilots thinking?" because you and I weren't there, we don't have all the details yet and the actual findings might point in a totally different direction. We simply don't know just yet...

Yup, of course we don't know. But it would seem that in the absence of any ILS system capable of taking the plane onto the runway, attempting an approach was always going to be extraordinarily difficult.

Are you not aware that U.S. Patriot missiles to be deployed in Poland within weeks??? Specifically, for security against Russia. The missile defence shield was simply amended, not withdrawn.

Which was an initiative of the Tusk government, not the Kaczynski government. Why would Russia murder the President, who had nothing to do with the deployment of Patriot missiles?

Anyway, while you're at it darling, why don't you go away and tell us about the TAWS maps for the Smolensk area.
convex 20 | 3,978
20 Apr 2010 #838
Are you not aware that U.S. Patriot missiles to be deployed in Poland within weeks??? Specifically, for security against Russia. The missile defence shield was simply amended, not withdrawn.

The missile defense issue is supported by both PiS and PO though...
Olga 1 | 330
20 Apr 2010 #839
undefined

Not by Russia, though ;)
And Russia has openly threatened Poland over it. Do a little research. ;) ;)
Jed - | 165
20 Apr 2010 #840
Not by Russia, though

Thus, Russia was so disappointed with global missile defense non-deployment in Poland that killed your President ? In order to push Poles to deploy it instead of Patriot system?

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