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60% of Poles say Szydło's government should resign


gumishu 11 | 5,162
21 Jul 2017 #181
the latest poll of political preferences (notably before current parliamentary crisis though) has estimated the support for PiS at 38 per cent of those who are willing to vote - look up 'ostatni sondaż Kantar dla TVN' - the fluctuations in the polls and the fight for votes is going now for those who typically are too apathetic to vote at all so maybe the latest events will mobilize some to claim they are going to vote now - but this might be a flash in the pan just like the one in early April (after the so called 27:1 disaster)
jon357 63 | 15,214
21 Jul 2017 #182
notably before current parliamentary crisis though

And this is the key.

the support for PiS at 38 per cent

Many politicians would be worried at such a low level of support - and the antipathy to the regime only grows.
Ironside 49 | 10,294
22 Jul 2017 #183
And this is the key.

Polls are not that reliable.
Lyzko 25 | 7,139
22 Jul 2017 #184
I know many Poles whom I'd consider most reliable:-)
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
22 Jul 2017 #185
after the so called 27:1 disaster

Don't believe the cleve rand suggestive but nevertheless deceptive leftist-liberal propaganda. It was Poland's sole dissenting vote that upheld the EU's honour. Otherwise it would have been a rerun of the kind of rubber-stamp votes typical of totalitarian regimes.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
22 Jul 2017 #186
Many politicians would be worried at such a low level of support

Indeed, PO -19% and Nowoczesna - 5% are miserably disappointing support levels for parties that hope to rule to rule Poland one day. After the 2007-2015 PO/PSL debacle, it is highyl unlikely the electorate will trust those rip-off artists again any time soon.
mafketis 23 | 8,372
22 Jul 2017 #187
it would have been a rerun of the kind of rubber-stamp votes typical of totalitarian regimes

How many challengers did JK have the last time he was elected as prezes?

and the antipathy to the regime only grows.

that is true for the more educated, there's no really viable opposition, Schetyna is a glorified backbencher who might be able to cut the mustard as a jr minister, but prime minister? dziękuję

For all his (many) faults Tusk was very good at keeping the party in line and had a vision (though very hazy and incremental).
The bigger problem is that no Polish (or European) party seems to be able to put together a platform that has social and migration policies that the majority agree with.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
22 Jul 2017 #188
the antipathy to the regime only grows

Indeed, but only amongst a frustrated and resentful leftist-liberal minority of confirmed losers. No wonder! They had largely succeeded in projecting to the outside world an image of Poland as a land in turmoil about to explode and tried to mount a putsch which again fizzled out just lke last December's aborted attempt. Not only PO & Co. do a p*ss-poor job of governing but can't even carry out a coup properly!
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
22 Jul 2017 #189
a platform that has social and migration policies that the majority agree with.

At least for once you have provided a realistic diagnosis. All those polticians, pundits and media people aghast at and preplexed by Brexit and the inroads made by popullist and nationalist candidates in recent years have failed to realise that the leftist-liberal PC codswallop they're peddling appeals mainly to snobbish, arrogant elites. In America and Europe decades of something passed off as "liberal democracy" had become all but second nature and was taken for granted. Eventually howerver the masses began seeing through the clever but deceptive propaganda, the prettified slogans and euphemisms and started to wake up. The migrant crisis was probably the main catalyst, demonstrating the chasm between the "values" of the self-styled elites and the bulk of society.

We are rapidly approaching the threshold of conservative democracy, more in line with the beliefs and needs of ordinary citizens who will always outnumber the snooty elites.
NoToForeigners 10 | 1,062
22 Jul 2017 #190
I know many Poles whom I'd consider most reliable:-)

Yea! Pol-Ams and expats disconnected from Poland for decades are the most reliable! ROFL hard!
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
22 Jul 2017 #191
very hazy and incremental

Indeed, more in line with the bread & circus philosophy with his "warm tap water" approach.

How many challengers

Do you really think one can compare the internal voting procedures of a politcal party with those of international bodies? What you have actually implied is that the EU should adopt a PiS-style modus operandi.
mafketis 23 | 8,372
22 Jul 2017 #192
Do you really think one can compare the internal voting procedures of a politcal party with those of international bodies?

Why not?
The plain fact is he's the unopposed (unopposable) leader of the ruling party who was hidden away during the campaign like a shameful secret because they wouldn't have won with him in front and they knew it. That makes the banana republic voting procedures within PiS a matter of some importance - since they're determined to create the Polska Rzeczpospolita Bananowa.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
22 Jul 2017 #193
a matter of some importance

Only to the bashers, detractors and badmouthers. You know yourself that opposition calls JK to be PM are not intended to ensure a more effective government but to compromise an uncharismatic poltician and bring about a repeat of 2007. You know you are chiding PiS for "hiding" JK during the campaign not because that would improve their support but wręcz przeciwnie, It's like Trybuna Ludu that would advised the Church to be more modern and "progressive" and imitate the "open Cathoilicism" of France with its worker-priests. The commies no more were itnerested in having a more vibrant and effective Polish Church than you are to see a more resilient, dynamic and effective PiS government. Next joke suggestion, please.

Postscript: You have indeed offered one reasonable diagnosis today, but most of your posts still rllect the primitive black & white propaganda of the rant & chant brigade. So you do have potential, but rubbing elbows with HB and his ilk will definteily not enhance your analytical skills nor overall intellectual devleopment.
mafketis 23 | 8,372
22 Jul 2017 #194
a more effective government

like one that knew how to write legislation?

w dwóch różnych artykułach, w różny sposób stwierdza się o wyborze pierwszego prezes Sądu Najwyższego, co według prezydenta jest naruszeniem zasad prawidłowej legislacji

i two different articles the selection of the first presdient of the supreme court is described differently, which according to the president (AD) is a violation of the rules of correct legislation

wiadomosci.onet.pl/kraj/rzecznik-prezydenta-andrzej-duda-zauwazyl-ze-nie-dochowano-prawidlowosci/kn1x7l9
NoToForeigners 10 | 1,062
22 Jul 2017 #195
@mafketis
Stuff like that was abundand in PO ruling times making so many holes that PiS is finally close to seal.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
22 Jul 2017 #196
a violation of the rules of correct legislation

It appears likely it will get sent to the Constitutional Tribunal. The discrepancy will be eliminated by legislators and and Duda will be free to sign. A good PR move on his part, but his detractors, yourself, lower-case and your guru HB included, will call him a puppet none the less. Such is poitics!
mafketis 23 | 8,372
22 Jul 2017 #197
uff like that was abundand in PO ruling times

Yes, Polish legal language is a mess, the country should look at the plain language laws of Scandinavia which aim to make laws clear and unambiguous and easily understandable without the encrustations and complications that Polish academic language is so addicted to.
Lyzko 25 | 7,139
22 Jul 2017 #198
Ya think Polish "legalese" is bad, try German! Lord knows I translated that stuff for long enough. Nearly drove me crazy, but the pay was so darned good, I thought, to hell with it:-)
mafketis 23 | 8,372
22 Jul 2017 #199
A good PR move on his part

More likely a delaying tactic of the kind typical in weak, malleable personalities. His choice is drive the final nail in his legal coffin or alienate his de facto boss. Not a comfy choice - Ludwik Dorn (once the 'third twin') who knows JK backwards and forwards says that his murderer outburts was aimed at Duda...
gumishu 11 | 5,162
22 Jul 2017 #200
For all his (many) faults Tusk was very good at keeping the party in line and had a vision (though very hazy and incremental)

the only vision Tusk had was to appear I repeat appear to be a serious statesman - the man is a complete egomaniac and only interested for power for the power itself and no visions - he himself said that he prefers 'the policy of hot water in the tap' to some visions - he never tackled any serious problems that Poland had - it was just empty promises during election time and then lots of making good apperances in the form of quite good PR which PiS lack

Ludwik Dorn (once the 'third twin') who knows JK backwards and forwards says that his murderer outburts was aimed at Duda...

I never heard bigger bullshit - Kaczyński simply lost his temper after some rant by Budka who said something about the late Lech Kaczyński
gumishu 11 | 5,162
22 Jul 2017 #201
How many challengers did JK have the last time he was elected as prezes?

Kaczyński doesn't use terror to get rid of possible rivals, he has enough trust and respect among PiS ranks simple as that - nothing bolshevik in this
jon357 63 | 15,214
22 Jul 2017 #202
his murderer outburts was aimed at Duda...

Absolutely. He's worried that the puppets may be less pliant than he thought, that nobody wants his 'fourth republic' and that Poles just aren't going to sit down and let this happen.

The rest of PiS and their allies see him and Macierewicz for the liabilities that they are...
Crow 139 | 8,578
23 Jul 2017 #203
So, 60%. I wonder how much Szydło's collaboration with Albanians, against Serbian interests, influenced this situation. Obviously, sestra Szydło miscalculated. But she sounded promising to me in the beginning. Then she disappointed
mafketis 23 | 8,372
23 Jul 2017 #204
I wonder how much Szydło's collaboration with Albanians, against Serbian interests, influenced this situation

It was crucial! She's actually part Albanian! And so is Kaczyński! Ratujcie nas Serbio!
Crow 139 | 8,578
23 Jul 2017 #205
Say what you want mafe but, any political group in Poland that is hostile on Serbia and Serbians don`t have bright future in Poland. It simple isn`t normal. That`s just how it is.
Atch 17 | 3,222
24 Jul 2017 #206
The so-called "social capital" is much bigger in Germany (or anywehere in Western Europe, Ireland included) than in Poland

You're right about Poland, not about Ireland. I don't need to check any rankings to know that but just to convince you, the Legatum Prosperity Index of 2016 placed Germany in 9th place in the world (not just Europe) in terms of its social capital and Ireland in 10th. Poland came in at 38th position. The difference between Germany and Ireland was literally a fraction of one point.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,062
24 Jul 2017 #207
You're right about Poland, not about Ireland.

I was right for both Poland and Ireland, Ms Atch. I am sure I have included Ireland into the same category as Germany while you think I have included Ireland into the same category as Poland.
Atch 17 | 3,222
24 Jul 2017 #208
With respect Ziem you said 'much higher' than anywhere including Ireland, and it's not much higher than Ireland, only a teeny, weeny little bit higher - and they don't have a sense of humour so that cancels out the teeny weeny bit :)) It would be interesting though to do a bit of further research and see how Poland compares to other post-Communist countries in terms of the social capital.

Oh woops! I've just re-read your original post and indeed I misinterpreted it. Perhaps you should have put your brackets in a different position. Let me mull that over.........
Atch 17 | 3,222
24 Jul 2017 #209
Ok how about:

The social capital is bigger in Germany, Ireland or anywhere in western Europe than it is in Poland. I think that's a bit clearer. What say you 'mon brave'?
Marsupial - | 886
24 Jul 2017 #210
Can someone explain to me what exactly is meant by social capital? Please.


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