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60% of Poles say Szydło's government should resign


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 Jul 2017 #151
but this is not true reform

Judge Strzemnbosz at the start of the post.commie perido said "the courts will vlrena themselvbes". Since this, Atch, according to you is not a true reform, Why didn't all the predecessor governments carry one out years ago? Here we have 2017 and toga-clad PRL crminals who had sent fredom-fighters to jail are still dispending "justice".

The opposition inclduing their Petrus, Schetynas and Kijowskis are just bandying slogans about. They don't seem to know what they're saying and surely haven't even bothered to read, let alone analyse the draft bills that were recently passed. For instance, how is it more democratic for a closed, exclusive elite like the KRS, accountable only to itself, to appoint judges rather than parliament, the democratically elected representatives of the nation? The latter is largely the norm in other countries. In Timmermans' country, for instance, the king appoints judges upon the recommendation of parliament.
Atch 17 | 3,003
21 Jul 2017 #152
please give examples

What I would suggest you do and I'm not being sarcastic, is read about authoritarianism and totalitarianism and then identify examples of those trends in Polish politics over the last two years. There are differences between the two but Poland is definitely inclining towards the former at present and that can lead on to the second.

how do you educate people not to be selfish?

Ah well, now, that's a tough one isn't it? The spirit of reaching out to work for the good of the wider community and not putting oneself first - where does it come from? Look at America, not a country I like much, but along with the greed and materialism is a level of personal generosity and community spirit that is almost unequalled anywhere in the developed world. Ditto Ireland remains one of the most charitable nations in the world. Ireland perhaps can be accounted for due to the requirement enshrined in the ancient Brehon Laws pre-dating Christianity, that anyone coming to your door must be fed and clothed with no questions asked. America, a very young nation, made up of diverse peoples and cultures, perhaps the legacy of initial shared hardships during the pioneering years and the sense of building the nation together accounts for it. How can Poland achieve that? Now perhaps that would be a worthy subject for the present government to concentrate on.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 Jul 2017 #153
moving towards being a totalitarian, facist police state

Words right out of the "total opposition" lexicon. Sadly, many foreign media have let themselves be duped. Understandably, they lack the time to devote too much space to just Poland, and the Michnikite media monopoly, although slowly grinding to a halt, is still barely ticking over. Since the start of III RP, media viistors have made it a point to see Wałęsa, Michnik and perhaps some government minister or spokesman. A majority of Poles, who themselves had indeed been duped for years, have thankfully at long last realised that III RP was nothing more than a deceptivce euphemism for the post-commie system and its efforts to retain their privileged position. But foreign media are still in a time warp. As we all know, habit can easily become second nature.
gumishu 11 | 5,072
21 Jul 2017 #154
There are differences between the two but Poland is definitely inclining towards the former at present and that can lead on to the second.

maybe you think I am dumb - it's ok - or maybe you don't have examples simple as that
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 Jul 2017 #155
anyone coming to your door

Be sure to ask Mr Atch about "Gość w dom, Bóg w dom" and "Czem (older spelling) chata bogata, tem rada!"
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 Jul 2017 #156
a worthy subject for the present government to concentrate on

Indeed, once they clean and sweep out "stajnia Augiasza", I would be all for a pro-altruism campaign. By definition PiS are a party of "propaństwowcy". That would be the antithesis of the "me-myself & I" philosophy of previous governments!
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 Jul 2017 #157
authoritarianism and totalitarianism

Apart from democracy and totlaitarianism there is also scmasterism. If PO were so liberal, decent and democratic, how is that in terms of scams, affairs and theft in broad daylight they outdid all previous govenremnts including Miller's ex-commies?.
NoToForeigners 7 | 1,044
21 Jul 2017 #158
According to those pathetic leftards that cry on the streets after finally getting stripped of all privilages and became "odsunięci od koryta" the president of Poland having right to appoint judges is anti-democratic. Isn't POTUS selecting judges of the supreme court in the States? Seems USA isn't democratic at all...
Atch 17 | 3,003
21 Jul 2017 #159
Gość w dom

I know about guest in the house, God in the house etc but that's not the same thing. In ancient Ireland it was actually the law, not a question of offering hospitality and this was in Pagan times before the concept of Christian charity. To fail to offer food and a bed to a stranger who came to the door was punishable by a fine. However, acknowledging that poverty might prevent some from being able to do so, 24 hour hostels, for want of a better word were established by the King of each district at the nearest major crossroads and each person and their attendants, seen upon the road was invited to enter if they wished. There would be up to a hundred beds available and maybe up to 200 livestock kept on the grounds as there were strict regulations as to the variety of meats etc to be offered. Entertainment was also expected to be provided. These bruideans as they were called existed up until the early 1600s when the Brehon Laws were finally displaced by English law and - can you see where this is heading?? Yes they are the forerunners of the Irish pub :)

maybe you think I am dumb

Not in the least but quite frankly I am surprised if you can't see it for yourself. State control is being tightened in Poland and that's a fact.
gumishu 11 | 5,072
21 Jul 2017 #160
Not in the least but quite frankly I am surprised if you can't see it for yourself. State control is being tightened in Poland and that's a fact.

yeah, we should all do 'róbta co chceta', don't want to pay taxes -why should you? there is corruption and fraud? - so what let it be - state control is evil - the worst of all

and yes I am welcoming this much of state control that has been introduced by PiS goverment - thanks to it for now we don't have a budget deficit - and guess what haven't in the slightest felt threatened so far by the state infringing on my rights - maybe you have, I don't know
Atch 17 | 3,003
21 Jul 2017 #161
The state control business suits some people such as yourself, for a time as long as the state is introducing popular policies and 'reforms' but at a certain point, it starts introducing things that people don't like Gumi, and by that time, it's usually too late to do anything about it.

Remember that the present government as well as introducing its own reforms is busily undoing and dismantling previous ones, notably the education system. Now what does that indicate to you? Do bear in mind that we are talking here not just about returning to an old system from previous times, but in changing the curriculum to reflect the party ideology of PIS.............we even have museums being interfered with and the heads of them being sacked because their exhibitions don't present history from the ruling party's point of view and emphasise the aspects they think most important.
gumishu 11 | 5,072
21 Jul 2017 #162
but at a certain point, it starts introducing things that people don't like Gumi, and by that time, it's usually too late to do anything about it.

it's no Middle Ages, people can overturn any government that imposes policies that are unpopular - if you have too short a memory may I remind you the fate of the special tax for local roads which PiS proposed? and guess what all totalitarianisms were introduced according to the will of most of the poeple (Germany) or resigning to an opressive power of one faction (Russia) - if you see something like that happening in Poland then in my opinion you are not in touch with Polish reality
Atch 17 | 3,003
21 Jul 2017 #163
all totalitarianisms were introduced according to the will of most of the poeple

Yes, but they weren't so happy with the aftermath were they? Yes such regimes are either a result of people being duped into thinking they're signing up for something great or being co-oerced into it. Now according to you, opinion polls are overwhelmingly in favour of the present government, so it would follow wouldn't it that whatever the government is proposing is indeed in accordance with the will of the people at this time.

the fate of the special tax for local roads which PiS proposed?

Ok Gumi, let's imagine I'm a clever manipulative, devious son of a mother, ok? I want to convince a gullible electorate that my party listens to the people, so I develop a cunning plan to propose something very unpopular and then after a national outcry I do a u-turn and everybody feels reassured that I'm not a great dictator, but in fact a true man of the people, further increasing their trust and confidence in me.
gumishu 11 | 5,072
21 Jul 2017 #164
Yes, but they weren't so happy with the aftermath were they?

you live you learn - you choose you face the consequences - if you choose right the consequences will be good if you choose wrong the consequences will be adversary
Atch 17 | 3,003
21 Jul 2017 #165
Well now I'm afraid that after WWII and the Soviet Gulags etc that attitude is just not good enough. If we haven't learned by now the consequences of making hasty, ill-considered choices based on hysteria and the fascination of a 'strong' leader, well then we're doomed.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,674
21 Jul 2017 #166
if you choose right the consequences will be good

ill-considered choices based on hysteria and the fascination of a 'strong' leader

Everyone was so fascinated of the Bolsheviks in 1917 that even ladies of Russian aristocracy were in favour of this dictator and political murderer Vladimir Ilyitch Lenin. But they paid a very hard price for this fascination.

People were equally fascinated about Adolph H some years later..

On the other hand, the new regulations to the legal system that Our Great and Dearest Leader Chairman Jarosław Kaczyński proposes are very similar to those that exist at present in Bundesrepublik Deutschland under Angela Merkel. No one is protesting in Germany, however, saying that democracy is in danger.
gumishu 11 | 5,072
21 Jul 2017 #167
he new regulations to the legal system that Our Great and Dearest Leader Chairman Jarosław Kaczyński proposes are very similar to those that exist at present in Bundesrepublik Deutschland under Angela Merkel.

one sane voice here, thank you Ziemowit
Atch 17 | 3,003
21 Jul 2017 #168
No one is protesting in Germany, however, saying that democracy is in danger.

You wouldn't be suggesting now that Poland should do things the German way, would you? :))
gumishu 11 | 5,072
21 Jul 2017 #169
I certainly don't think that anything and everything done the German way is wrong
Ziemowit 12 | 3,674
21 Jul 2017 #170
that Poland should do things the German way

I think I am quite neutral and objective towards Germany. Believe me, no one on this forum has spend so much time stydying the processes of germanization in Silesia and being apalled by the inertia of the Polish state in preventing this region from falling apart from Poland. On the other hand, I am of high opinion of the efficiency of German society, their institutions and their economy. One should be realistic and not lured by the belief that the West is "over" now and they are likely to fall into the Muslim hands in a relatively short period of time. The so-called "social capital" is much bigger in Germany (or anywehere in Western Europe, Ireland included) than in Poland and I think many people here in Poland tend to neglect it. On the other hand, Western European countries being stronger and richer often try to "patronize" Poland and tend tio think "we are better because we are the West and "West is Best" as one grafitti on the walls of castle of Kamieniec Podolski (now in Ukraine) says.
cms 9 | 1,271
21 Jul 2017 #171
If you are comparing to the German Federal Courts then there is little similarity in the method of appointment. Those judges are appointed by a commission of representatives from each Lander and from parliament - thus it mirrors Germany's federal system.

If you are comparing to the US then the President's picks are approved by the senate but they are there for life and cannot be fired, even by Mr "You're Fired". Thus in reality those 9 people are picked by a mix of Democrat and Republican politicians over a 29 year period. The US State Dept yesterday said they are concerned by the proposed changes in Poland.

What is being proposed here by Ziobro and Kaczynski (and not forgetting the useless lump who is actually Prime Minister) has no parallel in western democracies, whatever spin they try to put on it.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 Jul 2017 #172
Kaczyński is a paranoid fanatic

They should make you chairman of the board of PO*s hate industry. Small, primitive, mean-spriited people people like you and your guru HB desperately need a bugbear, a bogey, a bête noire to revile and discredit because that saves you from thinking. Much easier to repeat loud but emtpy nad meaningless slogans than to think things out for oneself.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 Jul 2017 #173
similar to those that exist at present in Bundesrepublik

Not when Germany's Länder have a voice in the matter. Poland would have to allow the województwa to partoivciapte in judicial appointments. But countries like that of the anti-Polish Timmeramans are closer to the Polish model. The parliament there submits candidates whom the king approves. No king in Poland, but conceivably the president coudl play that role. It is far more democratic for a democratically elected parliament to appoint judges than for a closed judges' circle to appoint and promote one another without parliamentary scrutiny. No other European country has anything similar. In many it is the government or justice min. who appoints judges, rubberstamped by the president or king.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 Jul 2017 #174
making hasty, ill-considered choices based on hysteria

That is a fitting description of the hysterical govenrment-bashing rant faction -- like a bunch of screaming, pouting, stomping, tantrum-throwing brats. As an effective child psychologist by virtue of your profession,you certianly cannot be impressed when adults act that way, can you?

Incidentally, the latest Kantar Public survey showed stable public support fo PiS (38%), PO (19%), Petru (95) and Kukiuz (8%). The robust economy has seen fewer young peopel leaving the country and more Poles in general returning than emigrating. People across Poland dismiss the Warsaw rumpus as "warszawka" and are happy many have been able to leave poverty (500+). The high economic indicators (production, exports, investmentrs, higher wages, more consumer spending generating new jobs, the budget surplus rather than deficit, NBP predicotn of 4% GDP growth -- these are the things average Poles see and feel. Our court eocnomic expert Mayfixit cannot explain all that away so he pefers to join the ranter faction repeating their empty political mantras: kaczorek dyktatorek, wolne sądy (ale czy wolne od komuchów?), kon-sty-tu-cja.....
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 Jul 2017 #175
sign of his arrogance that he considers he has no need to learn these skills

He is a master strategist and that is hsi forte. He doesn't have to be a typist, mathematician or trumpet player. But love 'im o r hate 'im, everyone, even the opposition, agrees he is Poland's most powerful political figure. His major blunder was in 2007 when he agreed to a snap election, believing it would increase PiS' seats in the Sejm. Instead, PO won the elrction and subjected Poles to 8 years of their trademark scamster misrule. On the other hand, what other political party would have better tolerated 2 years of nonsense dished up by the Laurel & Hardy of Polish politics -- Giertych and Lepper?
gumishu 11 | 5,072
21 Jul 2017 #176
He is a master strategist and that is hsi forte.

I often doubt in the strategic abilities of Kaczyński - however I agree with his vision of Poland to a great extent
mafketis 21 | 7,619
21 Jul 2017 #177
I agree with his vision of Poland to a great extent

another fan of the PRL!
gumishu 11 | 5,072
21 Jul 2017 #178
I'm not a fan of the rule of the so-called elites as espoused by PO and the likes - you can call me names all you want - you are only doing yourself harm by that - because you don't try to reach for deeper understanding - and I can tell you: your understanding of the current situation is very superficial and you are just as hysteric as jon
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 Jul 2017 #179
you are just as hysterical as jon

Worse, because everyone knows how emotional lower-case is. But Mayfixit tries to pass himself off as a reasonable and knoledgeable type, well versed in economics and business practices. Such a one should have a more rational grasp of reality and not gullibly fall for meaningless sloganeering.
jon357 63 | 14,255
21 Jul 2017 #180
The latest poll shows that the majority of people in Poland believe that democracy is under threat.


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