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Will many Poles migrate to Germany in May 2011 (after opening labor market)?


Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
19 Nov 2010 #31
We dont need Germany for progress as much as it needs our skills and labor.

I think its up to the Polish individual to think whether they would like to work in Germany or innovate new ideas and create new jobs in their own homeland.

However ... if someone can get a job in Germany and is desperate enough to wish to work there, they can.

I dont see "many" Poles migrating to Germany unless desperate for money.

Nothing against Germans though ... their country their life ... they did good after being battered in WW2 ...
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,873
19 Nov 2010 #32
I think Sarrazin is the problem.

The messenger isn't the problem, it's about the message!

Just look what you said yourself, he doesn't have a problem with the Europeans, with whom then? With the Muslims, with the darker sinned ones, with the people who sell fruit on the corner?

It's only some muslims! They don't fit into Europe...whenever there are cultural clashes it's between the native Europeans (across Europe) and immigrant muslims.

I'm just waiting for the Kristallnacht to happen again.

If it rocks your boat...
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
19 Nov 2010 #33
We will learn from your
mistakes.

I think many Western European leaders wanna see us fail, i mean, not just Poland getting wealthy but other issues. They have a problem with mass immigration ( wont say it but mean non-whites) we don't, so they mingle in our affairs show us on TV as racists say we're intolerant and we should bring those people in, so that we to can have a problem with them, cause they're jealous that we currently don't. Don't wanna see us succeed where they're failed.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,873
19 Nov 2010 #34
Don't wanna see us succeed where they're failed.

Maybe it would help if you wouldn't point so gleeful a finger to good 'ol Europe?
Marek11111 9 | 816
19 Nov 2010 #35
Do you think there is going to be euro-zone in May 2011?
Marek11111 9 | 816
19 Nov 2010 #37
piigs

Portugal will need bailout
Island got bail out
Ireland is in process of bailing out
Greece got bailout
Spain will need bailout

England, Italy, France they all run big deficits and implementing austerity measures on own citizens,
Germany is #2 nation in world for producing wealth as exporting the manufacturing goods
And next question
Do you think the German people will keep bailing out other nation and not revolt and get out of euro or create two tear euro-zone?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,873
19 Nov 2010 #38
1.) We will mope and gripe and scoff but we will bailout if there is no other way.

2.) The Eurozone will be reformed, rules changed, treaties reworked to make sure such crisis won't happen again. Changes are going to happen, that's sure too!

3.) A two tier Euro counts for me as adapting, to secure the future of the euro-zone.
Maybe some countries will have to leave the Eurozone and others won't even become members in the first place because their economies aren't fit for it but the Euro-zone will stay for sure.

Not at least because Germany profits from it mightily! Much more as we suffer from it, bailouts or not!

The Euro-zone was built primarily by politicians with a political vision, it's time to let the economy wizards have their go at it. It needs to be put on real working feet. It won't be easy and it won't be pretty but it will happen.

PS: The German doesn't like revolts that much in the first place....;)
Marek11111 9 | 816
19 Nov 2010 #39
The Euro-zone was made primarily by politicians with an political vision, it's time to let the economy wizard have their go on it. It needs to be put on real working feet. It won't be easy and it won't be pretty but it will happen.

It is impossible to make euro work in long run, you have too many states with their own interest, you cannot give control of your monetary policies to someone else as Germany is effected what Italian gov. does or what Poland does or how much money Ireland will borrow.

I think the experiment is doomed to fail. Bailouts are not for the countries they are for the creditor banks, that is as I see it working

Germany or France lend money to Ireland or Greece then the borrower is near default and the creditors banks will lose the money so they make the governments to bailout the creditors and tax people so banks will continue make profits.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,873
19 Nov 2010 #40
I think the experiment is doomed to fail.

Well...yeah...some were saying that since the beginning!
Oh and they said/say the same about the EU....I think we will survive them all! ;)
Marek11111 9 | 816
19 Nov 2010 #41
European union has a chance as long as everyone controls own currencies
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,873
19 Nov 2010 #42
Not everyone!

For many countries sharing the same currency in a real union without borders works, in central and northern Europe for example. And many of those there who are not yet in the Eurozone will fit in well.

But in the South there are other traditions, other cultural values, even different styles of economies working which chafe with the current set of rules which are more made for the northern economies.

One size does not fit all!

Not to mention that the current crisis was made in the US/UK and has nothing to do with the Euro (Ireland for example).
People like to mix things up here...

There things have to will change, adapt. But the Eurozone will in the end be stronger for it once this crisis is overcome and lessons learnt!
Marek11111 9 | 816
19 Nov 2010 #43
I think the mark just might come back and the fourth Reich
Ksysia 25 | 430
19 Nov 2010 #46
Would you like that?

The mark would be good. The Reich - not as good as German Kingdoms. Love them. Cutest castles and princes.

I remember a holiday travelling in Germany as a kid, and everything costed a couple of marks. Now it's tens of Euros.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,384
19 Nov 2010 #47
Is it gonna be disastrous for Poland's situation?

it won't be good.

i've already got half my family there.
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
19 Nov 2010 #48
The moment you get rich (and we poor) they will come!

Maybe a new Crusade for preventive purposes ? ;)
Mr Grunwald 33 | 2,019
20 Nov 2010 #49
I think the mark just might come back

Oh I miss the Deutsche Mark :((

I was so proud when I was a little kid and found one on a vecation in Greece...
Later on I lost it and it's in my nightmares to this day...
Bring back DEUTSCHE MARK!!!

and the fourth Reich

Ey.. eyy.. eyy Nobody need's that ****

Would you like that?

Some Poles still have the thing's inprinted in them since commie times...
I like the nowadays Germany
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,873
20 Nov 2010 #50
Yeah...me too...(and we get to keep our castles nonetheless)

;)
mafketis 34 | 11,898
20 Nov 2010 #51
But in the South there are other traditions, other cultural values, even different styles of economies working which chafe with the current set of rules which are more made for the northern economies.
One size does not fit all!
... But the Eurozone will in the end be stronger for it once this crisis is overcome and lessons learnt!

Certain countrie had no business being in the Eurozone at all, Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy and arguably Ireland.
The EU's drive to expand the eurozone at all costs is stupid. Countries like Greece need to be able to devalue their currency (short term pain for long term gain) but if they don't control said currency they can't.

On the other hand the German 'bailout' of Greece doesn't help Greece at all but rather private investors who follow the motto : privatize profits and socialize debt. If Greece defaulted some private investors would have gotten burned but it wouldn't have hurt the Greek people as much as the bailout will.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,873
20 Nov 2010 #52
The EU's drive to expand the eurozone at all costs is stupid.

It was more idealistic than stupid.
The Euro was seen by political idealists as a tool to forge a stronger european union.
Since something like this was never tried before problems were bound to arise.

Surely one could put all the blame now at the US/UK credit crunch crisis but that would only be
halfway true as this only accelerated the inborn frailties of this current euro zone...
Two such diverging economies as for example a high tech tools manufacturing industry needs other rules than a mainly tourism industry economy...that's now a widely accepted fact.

That's why changes have to be made and will be made!

But I doubt that Greece (or Ireland for that matter) will be better off alone all by themselves.
If these countries default without any helping hand people will again resort to fleeing the country and selling their labor in the EU.
Their countries having no chance whatsoever to get back to their feet as nobody will help them monetary nor with investments as the EU will do.

Neither the EU nor the EURO are to blame for their problems but they are their best chance not to fall back into dark times.
Ashleys mind 3 | 455
20 Nov 2010 #53
The whole thing is an example of rapid development. Does the union have the wealth to spread to all its member nations? we'll see I guess. But it looks as though rather than the expansion benefitting the countries concerned, it is benefitting the individuals who make good in their new country, but leaves social repercussions back home and in their chosen countries. What does it say when everyone wants to shift and leave their country...?

How fickle nationality is.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,873
20 Nov 2010 #54
The whole thing is an example of rapid development. Does the union have the wealth to spread to all its member nations?

No it hasn't, as "the union" isn't some faceless entity but all of us members.

Right now it develops into a money-transfer union from the richer, better developed countries to the poorer, less or more onesided developed countries.
Something many people in the "giving" countries plainly resent.

It's a question about how we want this union to be seen.
Even the richest union of this world, the United States of America has poorer states which are always supported by the richer states.
But they have what we still don't have...one country under one flag, the knowledge and feeling to belong to the same nation!
Something many want to achieve with the EU in Europe too...

Right now it seems we have more of the downsides without enjoying the upsides of such a union because we are stuck somewhere in the middle!

It's all abit messy now but necessary on the way of our development as we have to go the whole nine yard in the end to make this thing work.
Krynski - | 82
20 Nov 2010 #55
It seems to be better for the Poles to work in Germany than in the increasingly Polonophobic UK - now a country in a deep economic crisis. And UK is increasingly Polonophobic above all because of the long-lasting and unceasing hate propaganda against the Poles from the media hate-mongers, notably those from the media for the so-called lower classes, such as the Daily Mail and the Daily Express. But also other, allegedly more decent and sophisticated media in UK, have been participating in the onslaught against the Poles. The hate propaganda against the Poles in UK has been going on with complete impunity, with practically NO ONE defending the Poles. Doesn't it say something, for instance, about the UK "human rights" organizations? Also the Tory party, including Cameron, has made some nasty remarks about or allusions to the Poles, hasn't it? The hate propaganda from the Polonophobic media psychopaths in the UK seems to be the main cause of the negative attitude of the British towards the Poles, and connected with it numerous beatings and killings of the Poles, not to mention lesser harassment. I've never heard about such beatings and killings in Germany, where, for example, the local farmers seem to highly appreciate Polish migrant workers, some of the farmers reportedly admitting that without the Polish workers the German agriculture would be much worse off. But I wish above all the Poles could stay and work in Poland. I wish they first of all could leave the UK en masse, giving away the menial and exploitive "jobs" they toil on to somebody else, e.g. the Third World migrants (if even the latter would like to take them).
Wroclaw Boy
20 Nov 2010 #56
But I wish above all the Poles could stay and work in Poland.

I expect they wish that themselves too, unfortunately that option is not appealing for many. I mean you Puzzler although Polish spend about two weeks in Poland a year, right?
Krynski - | 82
20 Nov 2010 #57
I mean you Puzzler although Polish spend about two weeks in Poland a year, right?

--- Do you mean me, Krynski? Yes, I travel a lot. So what would that have to do with the quote you've taken from my post?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
20 Nov 2010 #58
and connected with it numerous beatings and killings of the Poles,

Sorry, but the Poles have mostly been killing and beating each other. Let's not forget that Poles have been doing nasty stuff to Brits as well.

Try again.
Ashleys mind 3 | 455
20 Nov 2010 #59
Doesn't it say something, for instance, about the UK "human rights" organizations?

Because they're too busy concerning themselves with Africa. They're obsessed with Africa - I think it's a colonial thing...

I think also that the UK has a different mentality to that found on the continent. This is obvious to some. Perhaps Brits feel more estranged from the Poles. Hell, they are estranged from each other some of them.

I do think that Brits have been pretty tolerant on the whole. How would Poland cope if 1.2 million foreigners turned up overnight, spreading an unfamiliar language and transforming the native culture for better or worse?

It doesn't help that there is already an entrenched class system in Britain, and a large working class establishment which always feels most threatened by immigration and economic crises such as the one at the moment.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
20 Nov 2010 #60
It will be interesting to see, it will probably improve relations between Germany and Poland.
I think that most of the people who wanted to leave have left, with ryanair cheap flights there is not such a great difference between Germany and Ireland.

I think Torq and BB had a point that higher skilled workers might leave or even commute for better pay in Germany.
It's a trade off, Germany gets workers and Poland gets experience.
With this it feels like the iron curtain is well and truly down, the separation or distinction between the political "East" and "West" will become more diffused and in my humble opinion this is good for all concerned.

As for the E.U. and Euro, they will stay, it was always a long term investment and I can already see the benifits. And with a world crises there will always be those who only see doom and gloom but that makes no real difference. Not like the 65 Billion Euros Poland is getting between now and 2013, which I see in my daily life from infrastructure to E.U. funds going towards businesses here.

Someone gave an example of an old woman who invested in a restaurant and didn't do well, we can not go by this 'hear/say' individual cases. I know three people/companies that have got (or are getting) millions pf Zloty to start up, or expand their businesses. What does that tell you? Nothing because it is a personal experience.

*edit
I think the restaurant was from a different thread now that I read it again, aw well...


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