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Poland to withdraw from Visegrad defence radar project


jon357 63 | 14,110
21 Sep 2014  #1
This is a surprise:

"Poland pulling out means the end of this sooner rather than later, for sure. As long as Poland was on board, there was a chance that the system could be ready in time. But now the upfront R&D costs will spiral dramatically," said a defence industry executive with knowledge of the talks.
"I don't think they need the other three as much as the other three need them," the executive said............Poland, the largest economy in the group and seen by many as its de facto leader, has promised to exceed Nato's defence spending of 2 per cent of GDP next year, but its three partners all significantly trail the target.

ft.com/cms/s/0/27f4138a-3be3-11e4-a6ce-00144feabdc0.html

Hungary isn't stable at the moment, Czech and Slovakia are much smaller and all three are sluggish in the face of the perceived threat from Russia.
Crow 137 | 7,520
21 Sep 2014  #2
Poland to withdraw from Visegrad defence radar project

Its now more political move then anything else.

Poland may easily found itself in the crossfire, between west of Europe and Russia.

Also, if we follow logic of the NWO development, its reasonable to expect that is Poland, next point of crisis in Europe. Its the only vast Slavic state, except Russia, that isn`t fragmented till now. Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Ukraine were already object of trade.

But, Poland has last card to play if her political leadership isn`t entirely corrupt. That is military neutrality on global military alliances and move out of NATO. Still, one may note that Ukraine did played that card and we see that it didn`t save her. Yes, it is truth. Same is with Poland. Crisis is inevitable. Declaration of neutrality would only affect how would Poland go out from crisis. It can`t prevent crisis.

At this moment declaration of neutrality strategically has effect as if Poland declared formation of new Commonwealth. Think of it.

But, that would mean that Poland starting to think of herself. Right now, it suits Russia. Beware, it is west of Europe and USA that are now natural enemy of Poland.
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
21 Sep 2014  #3
military neutrality on global military alliances and move out of NATO

They've had such harrowing experiences with countries further East that I've never heard anyone suggest for a moment in PL that they should leave NATO. People spent years in which they almost daren't dream of being able to join.

effect as if Poland declared formation of new Commonwealth. Think of it.

This has happened - in 2004 when they voted to join the EU.

Beware, it is west of Europe and USA that are now natural enemy of Poland.

Why do you think that?
smurf 39 | 1,982
21 Sep 2014  #4
Fantastic news.
America and Nato can look for a biatch somewhere else.
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
22 Sep 2014  #5
America and Nato can look for a biatch somewhere else.

Given that they can't move to a desert island or the summit of the Himalayas, do you blame them for preferring an alliance that doesn't have a history of invading them?
Crow 137 | 7,520
22 Sep 2014  #6
doesn't have a history of invading them?

that`s the good one.

all real Polish enemies are members of NATO.
smurf 39 | 1,982
22 Sep 2014  #7
do you blame them for preferring an alliance that doesn't have a history of invading them?

Germany, Sweden, Russia, Austria, Hungary, and Turkey have all invaded Poland over the centuries, 3 of those 6 listed are Nato members.

Poland in Nato is a bit like Burnley in the Premier League, good for a laugh but completely pointless.
Putin's a prick but leave him alone and he tends to leave you alone.
I can't really blame Russia and the whole Ukraine thing. Russia were given assurances that a buffer zone of Ukraine and Belarus would remain in place when the 'new' EU countries joined. The EU has gone back on it's word in chasing Ukraine and Russia has done what any country would've done.

Having a Nato defence radar system in Poland achieves nothing other than to annoy Russia. In this day and age of such wonderful technology the system isn't even needed anyway. All it would've done is establish a supposed legitimate target for the Ruskies and should it have been hit (by the Russians or a staged attack) the Yanks...sorry...Nato would've been able to temporarily satisfy its insatiable bloodlust and get another war going to help boost Western industrial economies while the bombing and killing goes on far away.

When you consider that in around 3,400 years of documented history across the world, estimates suggest that there have only been 250 years of peace, at this rate, it won't be too long before the world is in a constant state of international conflict - a state that, with the capability of modern weapons, would not be a very long one.

Can't blame Poland for not wanting to be a pawn anymore, indeed I support them in standing up to the bullies and telling them to get f*cked
Jardinero 1 | 394
22 Sep 2014  #8
in the face of the perceived threat from Russia

More beating in the war drum? I wonder who benefits more from this anti-Russian hysteria other than the military-industrial complex...
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
22 Sep 2014  #9
Germany, Sweden, Russia, Austria, Hungary, and Turkey have all invaded Poland over the centuries, 3 of those 6 listed are Nato members.

The difference is that they're all on side except the biggest and most dangerous. Nobody can blame the Poles for being very wary of Russia and its allies.

More beating in the war drum? I wonder who benefits more from this anti-Russian hysteria other than the military-industrial complex...

Arms companies do well out of anything except peace - and then they just do OK.
Crow 137 | 7,520
22 Sep 2014  #10
The difference is that they're all on side except the biggest and most dangerous. Nobody can blame the Poles for being very wary of Russia and its allies.

At this moment circumstances puts Serbs and Russians on the same side (we faces same threat). That gives pretty clear signal to Poles that right now, they don`t need to fear from Russian invasion. It is so because Poles and Serbs represent traditional historical partners. Even more, Poles and Serbians are to each others good loyal brothers. So, even if no other reasons not to confront Poland, at least- Russia won`t dare to risk her relations with Serbia.

Even involvement of Serbs in Ukraine, gives guarantees for satisfaction of Polish interests in the region, on the long run. Yes, i am quite sure that i speak truth when say that are Serbians guarantors of Polish eastern borders. That is something what NATO can`t offer to Poland. Never. On the contrary

Actually, Polish people, intelligentsia and politics already realizing that Serbian challenges must be seen as Polish challenges, if Poland wants to survive.

necessary to be said here.

At this moment of history Poland and Russia are very mutually interdependent.

Till now, in history, Poland may benefited from weak Russia and/or opposite, Russia may benefited from weak Poland. Even then, neither Russians, neither Poles wanted total destruction of the opponent. It is because, no matter their mutual antagonism, they were aware of the extremely aggressive foreign, non-Slavic, factor on both- Poland and Russia. That is situation that exist now too, with further straightening of factors that increase mutual interdependence. Greater danger for Russia, Poland would feel more endangered. Not from Russia but, in case that Russia collapse. It is so, because without Russia, as factor of balance in Europe, same factors that could eventually destroy Russia, after finish with Russia (as if), would inevitable turn to finish with Poland. Reason would be invented in the blink of an eye.

And so, interdependence rising. Why would then Poland want to end this situation and give contribution to the destruction of Russia? For sure Poland won`t do that. Especially, ESPECIALLY, when situation qualitatively dramatically change with every new day and, when now Russia starting to have interest in strengthening of Poland in Central/Northern Europe, same was as profit from strengthening of Serbia on Balkan/Central Europe, as well as, let us also underline, from strengthening of China in Asia, Brazil in Latin America, etc, etc.


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