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V4 (Poland) wants Serbia and 5 others in EU



Polonius3 1,019 | 12,574    
29 Nov 2016  #1

The foreign ministers of the Višegrad Group - Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and the Czech Republic - met EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini to discuss challenges faced by the European Union.

At a press conference following the meeting, the ministers said that they supported the EU aspirations of six western Balkan countries - Montenegro, Serbia, Macedonia, Albania, Bosnia & Herzegovina and Kosovo.

"The process of European integration contributes to the security and development of the whole continent," said Polish Foreign Minister Witold Waszczykowski.


Crow 137 | 5,894    
29 Nov 2016  #2

If you follow political events in Warsaw today, and I see, you following, you must note that our FM Ivica Dacic warned that EU can`t take and consider Kosovo as state. Its the violation of EU`s own principles (because 5 EU countries didn`t recognize Kosovo) about Kosovo `status neutral` presence on international conferences.

I would actually say that Serbia becoming tired from humiliations by EU and conditioning in the style of `moving target`- as our FM said that and soon we can come to the point where Serbia refusing to become member of EU. That would cost EU dearly.

Dacic wants EU to respect status-neutrality of Kosovo
Source: Tanjug Tuesday, November 29, 2016 | 16:22
b92.net/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2016&mm=11&dd=29&nav_id=99822

"Are the representatives of Pristina marked with an asterisk and a footnote in meetings? Do you respect the status neutrality? You talk about them as if they are a country, and we do not agree with that.

Dacic also remarked that if the EU goes ahead and introduces registration fees for Serbian citizens traveling to the EU - the so-called ETIAS system meant to strengthen security checks on visa-free travelers - Serbia should consider adopting "reciprocal measures."

Considering that meeting occurred in Warsaw, in Poland, it means that organizers should be held responsible for failure to mark Kosovo representatives with an asterisk. This is obvious insult to Serbia. Insult done by Poland. For now, not a single comments in Serbian media about Poland`s responsibility. No doubt, one more sign of Serbian tolerance on official Poland, that unfortunately, continuing to stub Serbia in the back.

But let me tell you something. Decision to blindly follow anti-Serbian politics, to stubbornly follow EU politics even when that politics collide with vital Poland` interests, official Poland would sooner (rather) or later pay with internal political turmoils in Poland itself. That for starter. Then, when Czech Republic and Slovakia, most probably also Hungary, definitely conclude that politics of official Poland too much deflect from interest of these free countries, Visegrad Group would crumble. Not only that but, when Czeska, Slovakia and Hungary see that Serbia refusing to enter EU, they would themselves abandon EU.

I suggest to official Poland to annul its Kosovo recognition and that way show that Poland isn`t banana state but serious Slavic country.
Crow 137 | 5,894    
29 Nov 2016  #3

Every issue that involve Poland is emotional to me, to all of Serbians, as far as I know. Nothing that say or do Anglos, Germanics or Franks or even Russians can`t affect my emotions as that what say or do Poland. But I also do have emotions when it comes to Serbia.

So, don`t take me wrong when I criticize official Poland in this case, in case with Serbia. Emotions are one thing but, aside with emotions now. I contemplated on this situation and I would try to be maximally realistic- if comes to open conflict between official Poland and official Serbia, it won`t be good for Poland. It is so because official Poland and official Serbia defend two different political options and trust me, official Serbia defend option that have future, while official Poland defend option that goes to oblivion. See, exactly there, exactly in that situation, leading EU countries pushing Poland. In isolation from those truly loyal to Poland, even in conflict with them. Enemies of Poland wants that Poland prove to be incompetent, exactly while clashing with friends. Enemies of Poland know, they would be satisfied to get even parts of Poland. That`s how they think. They wait for their moment to act.

And what Serbians could do? They are tolerant but they inevitably must defend their sovereignty. So Serbians would stand.

Remember, this all is bigger, much bigger then Poland and Serbia. This what`s going on with us is just reflection of global mega-trends.

I only hope, I sincerely hope, that Poland can avoid this trap.
Crow 137 | 5,894    
29 Nov 2016  #4

What confuses me is that today`s official Poland appears to be, speaking in general, patriotic block. That block replaced previous, obviously treacherous block. But now, Duda and PiS giving signals that qualifies them as non-patriots. So, what this mean? Should we now expect third block on political scene of Poland?
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,574    
29 Nov 2016  #5

annul its Kosovo recognition

Serbia should annul it claims to Kosovo. By perpetuating those historical and hystericał obsessions (the mediaeval Battle of of Kosovo etc.) Serbia may well throw a spanner into the works and derail what could become your dream of Intermarum. Kosovo is 90% Albanian and will never be anything else -- maybe 95% Albanian becuase they've got a higher birth rate. Give up your grandiose dreams of a Greater Serbia. That is now history. Other countries have made surpeme sacrifices like Poland which does not lay claim to the Lwów region, nor does Germany plan to reclaim Breslau.

Here is a unique opportiuntiy for renegade Serbia to finally cease being a rogue state and join what could be a sizable Central East European bloc within the EU. Petty Serbian chauvinism can bring those plans to naught!
Crow 137 | 5,894    
29 Nov 2016  #6

Kosovo was overrun by Albanians by force and then ethnic map was changed. It is unacceptable. Anyway, in other words Poloniuse3, you are against sovereignty of states by UN charters? Is that it? But how would you then defend sovereignty of other states?

So, when we close the circle after following your ideas, Poloniuse3, Kosovo should belong to the one who is capable to take it and control it. No problem. War would solve everything. Its ongoing anyway. It never ended actually.

Are we all ready for war?
Ironside 46 | 8,382    
30 Nov 2016  #7

suggest to official Poland to annul its Kosovo recognition

Why? What is in that for Poland? Pat on the back from Serbia? phew!
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,574    
30 Nov 2016  #8

Are we all ready for war?

NO, and only if EVERY COUNTRY INCLUDING SERBIA is willing to compromise and sacrifice can we avoid war. Poland and Germany are good examples. I believe Hungary lost some territory to Romania,but they are not making a fuss about it. In practical terms, what good to Serbia is a powderkeg province like Kosovo that is 90% Albanian hated by Serbs? There can never be an Intermarum if every country is going to obsessively insist of reclaiming the territory it had during its golden age. There just is't enough land for that to go round!
Observvver    
30 Nov 2016  #9

Lech Kaczynski opposed recognition of Kosovo by Poland in 2008, but if in 2016 his brother doesn't mind reversing that stance, it tells you everything you need to know about how irrelevant Serbia is to Poland on a strategic or emotional level. Crow likes to dream otherwise, but here is the reality: one Polish govt recognises Kosovo a week after it declares independence, and the opposing Polish govt urges admission of Kosovo to the EU.

>Are we all ready for war?

What happened last time? Polish NATO troops opposing the Serbs. Serbia's president Milosevic dies in a prison cell in The Hague. Are YOU ready for more of the same, Crow?!
Crow 137 | 5,894    
30 Nov 2016  #10

Why? What is in that for Poland? Pat on the back from Serbia? phew!

Why? Because without annulled Kosovo recognition, Albanian appetites only rising and their dreams about Greater Albania becoming manic obsession.

NO, and only if EVERY COUNTRY INCLUDING SERBIA is willing to compromise and sacrifice can we avoid war.

My dear, Serbians sacrificed a lot of already. Hopefully, our sacrifices won`t go in vein and we shall win finally, in this never-ending war.

Lech Kaczynski opposed recognition of Kosovo by Poland in 2008

Yes and then he died. Most probably assassinated by those who wanted more obedient Poland.

but if in 2016 his brother doesn't mind reversing that stance,

as a human being I can understand him. After sow destine of his brother he simple wants to survive.

it tells you everything you need to know about how irrelevant Serbia is to Poland on a strategic or emotional level.

No, it telling me that official Poland don`t care for Poland`s strategic interests.

Crow likes to dream

I dream about independent Poland.

here is the reality: one Polish govt recognises Kosovo a week after it declares independence, and the opposing Polish govt urges admission of Kosovo to the EU.

Exactly. But Polish public support Serbia`s sovereignty. See, when one country start in continuity to be ruled by government that is blind and deaf for its own population we starting to speak of regime, not about government. So, to whom serve regime of Poland?

Polish NATO troops opposing the Serbs. Serbia's president Milosevic dies in a prison cell in The Hague.

Its not the same. Clinton`s are down. Other buffoons to follow. Ways of NATO and EU mass media propaganda exposed. World now isn`t uni-polar but multi-polar.

As for Milosevic, he didn`t die, he was killed in Hague.
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,574    
30 Nov 2016  #11

dreams about Greater Albania

Is that worse than dreams of Greater Serbia? European countries should be delineated roughly along today's ethnic lines when disputes occur. An area that is 90% one thing should belong to the country of that ethnicity. Tell us, Crow, what future would you see for a 90% Albanian Kosovo under Serbian rule? It would be a constant source of trouble, guerrilla warfare, terrorist attacks, a mini-Middle East in Europe. It would cost loads to police and control and be a big drain on the Serbian economy. And what for? For prestige? For a larger map of Serbia?
dolnoslask 2 | 1,173    
30 Nov 2016  #12

be a big drain on the Serbian economy. And what for?

Pol has a point here crow, why put your hand into a hole full of vipers.
Wincig 2 | 148    
30 Nov 2016  #13

Other countries have made sacrifices like Poland which does not lay claim to the Lwów region, nor does Germany plan to reclaim Breslau.

The voice of reason

Every issue that involve Poland is emotional to me, to all of Serbians, as far as I know. Nothing that say or do Anglos, Germanics or Franks or even Russians can`t affect my emotions as that what say or do Poland.

That sums up very well your pbs Crow: too many emotions, not enough rational thinking!
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,574    
30 Nov 2016  #14

Serbian

I never knew there were pejroative nicknames for Serbs but wikipedia lists:
Vlachs (vlasi),[70] in Croatia and Bosnia.
Chetniks (četnici), in Croatia and Bosnia.[71]
Shkije or Shki, by Albanians.[72][73]

Wikipedia also states that throughout history Serbs have portrayed themselves as victimsof external forces:

The description of Serbophobia has been controversial, as some sources state it runs contrary to the facts.[76] Some controversy with the term purportedly corresponds to its interplay with perceived historical revisionism practiced by the government of Slobodan Milošević in the 1990s and its later apologists, and the contention that Serbian writers constructed the "myth of Serbophobia," as "an anti-Semitism for Serbs, making them victims throughout history."[77] According to MacDonald, in the 1980s Serbs increasingly began to compare themselves to Jews as fellow victims in world history, which involved tragedising historic events, from the 1389 Battle of Kosovo to the 1974 Yugoslav Constitution, as every aspect of history was seen as yet another example of persecution and victimisation of Serbs at the hands of external negative forces.[78]
Marsupial - | 924    
30 Nov 2016  #15

For most part those countries do not meet the requirements. It would take them ages to advance enough to enter eu. Serbia does not meet these either.
mafketis 16 | 4,797    
30 Nov 2016  #16

For most part those countries do not meet the requirements. It would take them ages to advance enough to enter eu.

But it's a nice way to point out how much further ahead the V4 countries are....
Crow 137 | 5,894    
30 Nov 2016  #17

Serbian FM cut its visit to Poland

That`s it. Things develop as I expected. Unfortunately. This situation is one more EU`s gift to Poland. Nicely arranged. But, how many real friend Polish people have in the world, when is Poland able to allow that they walk humiliated out of Warsaw

Dacic walked out of Warsaw meeting "because of insults"

Source: Beta Wednesday, November 30, 2016 | 15:16
b92.net/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2016&mm=11&dd=30&nav_id=99834

id

Dacic said on Wednesday that Hoxhaj accused Serbs of being guilty for "all wars in the former Yugoslavia and for genocide."

The meeting in Poland brought together members of the Visegrad Group and of the so-called Western Balkans Six.

"Since (EU foreign policy chief Federica) Mogherini and other hosts failed to react to Hoxhaj, I said, 'If you can work without Serbia, do that', and left the gathering. I have no intention of listening to the lectures of those who committed crimes against Serbs," said Dacic.

dolnoslask 2 | 1,173    
30 Nov 2016  #18

Federica) Mogherini

What was she doing there, what do you expect from a woman who's nation will forever be remembered for their eager participation in mass genocide with their partners in criminality Nazi Germany.
Harry 81 | 13,431    
30 Nov 2016  #19

Tell us, Crow, what future would you see for a 90% Albanian Kosovo under Serbian rule?

Not at all, the Serbs would simply restart and then finish the ethnic cleansing (and genocide) they started which caused NATO to go in. Their vision was a 0% Albanian Kosovo.

If you can work without Serbia, do that

Wow, what a challenge! That's like telling a fish that if he can manage without his bicycle, he should do it.
Crow 137 | 5,894    
30 Nov 2016  #20

Why? What is in that for Poland?

Kind of similar question TV reporter asked pan Marka Skawińskog in moment when massive pro-Serbian demonstrations were organized and held in Warsaw, back in 2013. So spot this. I think this could be interesting for you

Demonstracja w Warszawie - "Kosowo jest serbskie!"



Not at all, the Serbs would simply restart and then finish the ethnic cleansing (and genocide) they started which caused NATO to go in. Their vision was a 0% Albanian Kosovo.

I think that answer of Marko Skawiński (see above) covering parts of your provocative comment, because he explains that Kosovo was illegally and by force taken from Serbians who defended themselves
Crow 137 | 5,894    
30 Nov 2016  #21

At the same day when Serbia was by official Poland humiliated in Warsaw, Czech Republic prize Serbian politics. Zeman compared Serbian president Tomislav Nikolic to French general and statesman Charles de Gaulle, because of Nikolic`s and Serbian principled policy.

Zeman: Nikolić kao Šarl de Gol zbog sankcija Rusiji
Izvor: Beta utorak, 29.11.2016. | 17:12 -> 20:52
b92.net/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2016&mm=11&dd=29&nav_category=78&nav_id=1204671

"U potpunosti razumemo poziciju Srbije koja nastoji da održava prijateljske odnose sa svim velikim zemljama i ne pribegava politici sankcija iako joj to povremeno donosi teškoće. Nadovezujete se tu malo na Šarla de Gola,

z

Serbian president Tomnislav Nikolic and Czech president Milos Zeman
Source: "We angered both EU and Russia - we're doing it right" > b92.net/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2016&mm=11&dd=30&nav_id=99825

Serbian President Tomislav Nikolic says that by supporting its own territorial integrity and that of Ukraine, his country has angered "both the EU, and Russia."

The Serbian president - who was praised and supported by Zeman because of Serbia's decision not to join anti-Russia sanctions - noted that the EU imposed these sanctions over Crimea.


z

Source: Nikolic arrives in Prague, meets with Zeman > b92.net/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2016&mm=11&dd=29&nav_id=99821

In a friendly and cordial meeting, Nikolic discussed development of economic cooperation between Serbia and the Czech Republic and the challenges posed by the migrant crisis.

Note: One of crucial points in Zeman`s presidential campaign was `Serbian question` and his unconditional support to sovereignty of Serbia. Zeman promised to annul Czech Kosovo recognition which happened as result of EU`s pressure, as it was case in Poland as Tusk himself told to Polish students when they asked him ``why did Poland recognized Kosovo when majority of Polish public oppose to it``.
Harry 81 | 13,431    
30 Nov 2016  #22

by force taken from Serbians who defended themselves

Not at all: your Chetnik heroes ran like rabbits at so much as the threat of force, the prospect of facing modern military forces caused them to behave like the cowards they are and to flee as fast as their legs could carry them; they didn't even stop to rape children or murder old people! There was no force and no defending, other than the defending of children or and old people by brave NATO troops. I'm proud that Polish troops are still in the independent nation of Kosovo defending the people there from the cowardly Chetnik scum who want to rape and/or murder them.
Crow 137 | 5,894    
30 Nov 2016  #23

Wow, what a challenge! That's like telling a fish that if he can manage without his bicycle, he should do it.

Actually, no matter frustrated, Serbian FM told very truth. In reality, Serbia`s-NATO deal and signed agreements, back in 1999 when NATO (after illegal bombing) occupied Serbian southern province are best guaranty that nothing in case with Kosovo can`t be accomplished without Serbia. Absolutely nothing. You can call it state- its not state. You can recognize it- its still part of Serbia.
Crnogorac3 1 | 255    
30 Nov 2016  #24

I think that answer of Marko Skawiński (see above) covering parts of your provocative comment, because he explains that Kosovo was illegally and by force taken from Serbians who defended themselves

This is war footage that the Polish public was not allowed to see in 1999 by the controlled mainstream media.

youtube.com/watch?v=NKuYtBpJnH0

Albanian islamic terrorists who were waging jihad in Kosovo attacked Yugoslav army positions. Yugoslav army returns fire in self defence and this is portrayed by western propaganda as "Serbian aggression" against "innocent Albanian victims".
Crow 137 | 5,894    
30 Nov 2016  #25

Not at all: .... I'm proud that Polish troops are still in the independent nation of Kosovo defending the people there from the cowardly Chetnik scum who want to rape and/or murder them.

Incorrect Harry, incorrect. I would only say that all what Marko Skawiński (above video) said about situation, was confirmed by independent commission of Polish parliament that had its representatives on terrain to monitor the situation when bombing of Yugoslavia/Serbia occurred in 1999. It goes in history Harry. Its official. See, Polish parliament concluded opposite to official NATO propaganda that blamed Serbs. By Polish parliamentarians Ikonowicz and Sierakowska, NATO and Albanians were responsible for everything.

Also, back in those days in Polish parliament, Jan Lopuszanski from a small Catholic right-wing group, made his explicit warning: ``If, today, NATO's putative right to be a judge of other nations and their governments and to enforce these decisions by way of violence is recognized, this right may tomorrow be directed against any nation in the world, Poland included``

Source: Eastern Europe After Kosovo, Splintered Unity: Polish Politics and the Crisis
by Konstanty Gebert
law.nyu.edu/eecr/vol8num3/feature/splintered.html
Harry 81 | 13,431    
30 Nov 2016  #26

Polish parliament concluded opposite to official NATO propaganda that blamed Serbs.

Please stop with your fantasies.
Crnogorac3 1 | 255    
30 Nov 2016  #27

Harry you are pathetic. Your country the UK can wage wars in the Falkland Isles that are 14km away from Argentina and only 14,000km distant from Britain. You of all people have no moral rights to mention let alone criticize any other country. Serbia had every right to protect its borders against your muslim terrorist allies that are now in ISIS and Al Nusra Front murdering innocent Syrian people.

youtube.com/watch?v=OtiRmbCvaac

LEGIJA = Heroj a ne zločinac!
Harry 81 | 13,431    
30 Nov 2016  #28

Your country the UK can wage wars in the Falkland Isles that are 14km away from Argentina

You really are hilarious! Your knowledge of geography is nearly as bad as your knowledge of history and ethics.
Crow 137 | 5,894    
30 Nov 2016  #29

Sarmatija Mati. Slavija Besmrtna.
Crow 137 | 5,894    
1 Dec 2016  #30

Now this is interesting. In his second day of visit to Czech Republic Serbian president visits mausoleum in Jindrichovice, burial place of 7.100 Serbs who died in Austro-Hungarian POW camps during the First World War. Nikolic is first Serbian head of state to visit this mausoleum in last 80 years, when King Aleksandar I visited place. Good and decent, honorable gesture but, why now,... what is the symbolism of it. This is all very interesting.

Source: b92.net/eng/news/society.php?yyyy=2016&mm=12&dd=01&nav_id=99839

n




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