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VAT, OFE, ZUS and costly dress under Tusk's government in Poland


Malopolanin 3 | 134
5 Aug 2011 #1
So you say Tusk's government with higher VAT and stealing money from OFE is better and less populist than previous one?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,721
6 Aug 2011 #2
And yet they're heading straight for a second term.

Incidentally, without taking the money from OFE, how would you propose to plug the huge black hole in ZUS?

(here's a hint : cutting pensions or higher contributions, neither of which were acceptable to the Polish public - but few people cared about the OFE funds)
Bartolome 2 | 1,085
6 Aug 2011 #3
So you say Tusk's government with higher VAT and stealing money from OFE is better and less populist than previous one?

Populism would be something completely opposite: happily giving money away to anyone asking for it. Lepper was in favour of printing more: we've got short memory, don't we?

the amount of hypocrisy in the parliament has not decreased (I think even contrary) - malintent omnipresent- if this is peaceful 'boring times' then what kind of storm are we up to

We're already in a strom. I don't even want to imagine what would it be like under PiS-LPR-Samoobrona.
OP Malopolanin 3 | 134
7 Aug 2011 #4
Incidentally, without taking the money from OFE, how would you propose to plug the huge black hole in ZUS? (here's a hint : cutting pensions or higher contributions, neither of which were acceptable to the Polish public - but few people cared about the OFE funds)

Here's another hint: it was Lepper's idea to do that. So who is populist there? The one who only talked about it, or Tusk, who actually did it?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,721
7 Aug 2011 #5
Who said that Lepper only had bad ideas? The OFE system, although a good idea in theory, was causing massive transfers from ZUS to the private system. Not such a good idea when the system has a huge deficit and increasing.

Incidentally - in Hungary - their OFE system was actually abolished and the money taken into public hands. In Poland, we only saw the level of contributions cut, nothing more.

Still wondering what you would do to plug the black hole in ZUS....
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
7 Aug 2011 #6
Who said that Lepper only had bad ideas?

Not such a good idea when the system has a huge deficit and increasing.

LOL ! You are a typical socialist. There's a problem, what's the solution ? Take away more money from the people. Any changes on the spending side ? Forget about it. Typical socialistic thinking, not surprising that you spend half of your time here defending PO.
OP Malopolanin 3 | 134
7 Aug 2011 #7
Still wondering what you would do to plug the black hole in ZUS....

There is no need to support existence of ZUS, KRUS, or NFZ.
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
7 Aug 2011 #8
So where else would pensions, invalidity benefit and health care come from? A wishing well?
convex 20 | 3,978
7 Aug 2011 #9
Cut out the middleman and sell long term government bonds directly to the people.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,721
7 Aug 2011 #10
There's a problem, what's the solution ?

Tell us your wonderful solution to the ZUS deficit, then?

Any changes on the spending side ? Forget about it.

You do realise that any changes on the spending side would involve cutting benefits and pensions?

Ah, that's right - you support changes, but only to those that you think are political enemies.

Anyway, let's start with the false claiming of "renta" to massage the unemployment figures. We all know that successive governments have used this in order to cut unemployment numbers - and we all know that many of them work illegally anyway. By cutting this, we could save plenty of cash - and force them into declaring their income.

Not a bad idea.

There is no need to support existence of ZUS, KRUS, or NFZ.

Interesting. Cutting out KRUS would definitely help things - but there's no parliament majority in favour (SLD, PSL and PiS are all against). NFZ? No NFZ means vast amounts of people in Poland who wouldn't be able to afford any sort of healthcare. ZUS? Who would buy it in the current state?

How bizzare to see PiS supporters support cutting the public services on which most PiS supporters are reliant on.

Cut out the middleman and sell long term government bonds directly to the people.

Good for you and me, bad for those who think "woohoo, I have cash, let's buy things!".

(and herein lies the great debate about personal responsibility)
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
7 Aug 2011 #11
Cut out the middleman and sell long term government bonds directly to the people.

Great. Tell some profoundly disabled person that instead of getting invalidity benefit they can buy some bonds!
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
22 Jun 2013 #12
Merged: Tusk PM of Poland in costly dress row

PM Tusk has been roundly criticised for tapping into PO membership dues to buy himself a slew of fancy suits and for his wife spending 6,000 zł on a single frock. Tusk replies that he represents Poland and has to look chic. His wife is performing a public function when she appears at this side.

I need to sensibly look at the background of our partners in Europe, it also often refers to my wife , who does not work , there is no time or party , or government - Prime Minister Donald Tusk explained . He stressed that the representation expenses for his wife were charged to the party contributions and donations , not from the budget allocations for the PO .

Premier of Poland commented thus reports the newspaper " Fakt" , who wrote that the funds collected by the PO sellers were " not only suits for Prime Minister Donald Tusk , ( ... ), but also elegant creations for his wife Margaret ."

goofy_the_dog
22 Jun 2013 #13
Not the first time his done that, what is more interesting are stuff like agitating in elblag or flying to pomerania every weekend, or his son as a chief director of lot, or his daughter and son having a brand new flat... Of course all of that sponsored by tax payers

money ;-)

Glad im not paying taxes in Poland ;-)
sobieski 107 | 2,128
22 Jun 2013 #14
Glad im not paying taxes in Poland ;-)

As opposed to you, I am paying taxes in Poland, and I think it is normal that the Prime Minister and the President and their partners are dressed on the country's cost.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
22 Jun 2013 #15
With that approach you would feel more comfortable living farther to the east.
goofy_the_dog
22 Jun 2013 #16
Good on grzegorz ;-)

I wouldnt want my taxes speint on expensive dresses for some wifey ;-)
it is very cinical of him... When so many ppl in country kill themselves because of the poverty. Shame :-(
jon357 63 | 14,137
22 Jun 2013 #17
Do you pay taxes?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
22 Jun 2013 #18
Especially that dude makes +20k and has been making much more (living on taxpayers' money) than average Joe for the last +20 years, so it's simply a matter of class or rather lack of it.
goofy_the_dog
22 Jun 2013 #19
Yes i do pay a bit of rax to my monarch ;-)
Her Majesty deserves it though
jon357 63 | 14,137
22 Jun 2013 #20
You don't know where your "bit of tax" goes. Maybe to fly SamCam's hairdresser abroad and put him/her up in 5 star hotels whether do official visits. A formal dress for the Polish PM's wife is cheap in comparison.
goofy_the_dog
22 Jun 2013 #21
Jon, stop philosophing, u hav lost ur arguement qnd u know it. Buying dresses for taxpayers money is not legal. On the other Po is all corrupted and will soon be gone like a bad dream.
jon357 63 | 14,137
22 Jun 2013 #22
Don't be silly. A dress allowance for wives of senior politicians is commonplace. In any case, if they had to pay themselves it would probably be tax deductible in a lot of jurisdictions anyway.
sobieski 107 | 2,128
22 Jun 2013 #23
Especially that dude makes +20k and has been making much more (living on taxpayers' money) than average Joe for the last +20 years,

I think it is normal that he would have a higher salary as Jan Kowalski. In my native Belgium the Prime Minister earns 17.500 EUR per month + 2300 EUR representation costs. The average Belgian earns 3.200 EUR. But a prime minister is the CEO of a pretty big company, namely the country. The ducks also were earning more as their neighbours.

By the way, the cardinal earns the same as the Prime Minister.
Lenka 3 | 1,441
22 Jun 2013 #24
I have mixed feelings. On one hand Jon is right- she represents Republic of Poland on these ocassions and it's important. On the other hand- it probably should be regulated somehow. Representative found or something like that.
jon357 63 | 14,137
22 Jun 2013 #25
Most places have a strict budget for such things. It's also not unusual for a country's fashion houses to give or lend their products to prominent people to wear on occasions that they'll be photographed.
sobieski 107 | 2,128
22 Jun 2013 #26
Most Western countries prefer their heads of governments to be dressed up to the nines (I believe there is such an expression in English?) and the same goes for their partners. The money spent on hairdressers could be better-spent though. See Belgian Queen Fabiola or Dutch Queen Beatrix :)

That said and done, heads of state represent their country and it would not do them going around in a C&A suit.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,721
22 Jun 2013 #27
As opposed to you, I am paying taxes in Poland, and I think it is normal that the Prime Minister and the President and their partners are dressed on the country's cost.

I don't see any harm in it.

Buying dresses for taxpayers money is not legal.

Fortunately, yet again, Goofy didn't bother to read.

for tapping into PO membership dues

In other words, the party, not the taxpayer paid.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
22 Jun 2013 #28
I don't see any harm in it.

For once Delph, I disagree with you. Tusk is on a good salary, he should buy his own clothes. You have seen the uproar in the UK about MP's and their claims for expenses. Cameron pays 5,000 GBP a year to live in Downing Street. Out of a salary of around 150,000 GBP. The only reason Tusk wants to be president of the EU is the 500,000 Euro wage (per year), plus expenses, plus huge pension, most of it, tax free.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,721
22 Jun 2013 #29
For once Delph, I disagree with you. Tusk is on a good salary, he should buy his own clothes.

He's actually not on that much money compared with the image that he needs to project - I found figures suggesting that he gets about 18,600zl a month - which comes to about 13000zl a month net. It's not really that much money at all compared to the visibility that the Prime Minister has.

Then again, PiS give money to Rydzyk and you don't hear people complaining about that...

But again - this money comes from PO membership subscriptions, not the taxpayer.

The only reason Tusk wants to be president of the EU is the 500,000 Euro wage (per year), plus expenses, plus huge pension, most of it, tax free.

Who wouldn't want to be President of the EU regardless of what you get?
pawian 161 | 9,971
23 Jun 2013 #30
The news has surfaced at bad time - crisis, which deprives many people of their jobs and earnings. What can they think of their leaders?


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