The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / News  % width posts: 282

Poland A and Ukraine B. Compare how far Poland has advanced.


PennBoy 76 | 2,437
6 May 2011  #211
ROFL. Isn't it amazing that some people here sound exactly like 19th century Germans when they talked about Poland?

I work for a guy who's family is of German decent, coming from present day Wroclaw (Breslau) even though it was a Germany at the time his ancestors left, he kinda feels Polish!
Nathan 18 | 1,363
6 May 2011  #212
So killing women and kids is a way of teaching?

What kids and women? Whenever you get your ar*ses kicked, you immediately put "kids and women". Oh, and old men. Local people had enough of Polish barbarism and dealt accordingly. It is amazing how some people like you manage to even make victims of themselves under given circumstances.

You have already taught me something today about Ukrainians.

This is all I am after: to teach. If you need additional lectures, let me know.
Havok 10 | 912
6 May 2011  #213
Why didnt Ukraine follow Poland and the rest of the ex-communist countries after the fall of the Iron Curtain‎?

one could pose the same question comparing East Germany or Czech republic to Poland.
Torq 26 | 2,368
6 May 2011  #214
Local people had enough of Polish barbarism and dealt accordingly.

You must surely be joking, Nathan. Glorifying Bandera's murderers and SS animals is one thing,
but denying the monstrous atrocities commited by UPA on Polish civilians is a bit too much.
Keep doing that and even pro-Ukrainian posters on this forum (like me) will start considering
you nothing more but a sickfuc*k, representing not your country, but some small group of nazi
retards.

If, however, your attitude is common among Ukrainian people (which I hope is not the case),
then I guess it's time for Poland to sit at the table with Russia, and discuss the partition line.
Maaarysia
6 May 2011  #215
If, however, your attitude is common among Ukrainian people

Before I registered on that forum I believed that those news about raise of Ukrainian nationalism is a storm in a teacup. But now I see it's true. Shame that our media were hiding that fact for so long.
Koala 1 | 332
6 May 2011  #216
Did someone describe genocide as a way of dealing with barbarism? There are no words.
gumishu 11 | 4,953
6 May 2011  #217
who said Poland gave Germans a kicking in 1939 - I haven't
- still Polish troops managed (with the help of Soviet late joining) to almost run the Germans out of supplies (fuel, ammunition) - Polish troops also managed to put plenty of German millitary equipment out of use (mostly tanks - it is agreed most of these were light tanks - and planes - if some only temporarily) - Hitler insisted on an offensive on France that same year but the supply shortages and losses in equipment among other factors made the German Head Staff to strongly object to it

Each of them could have turned round and joined the fight: how many of them did? Oh yes, none: but keep on whining about the 'British betrayal'.

are you sure you know what you are talking about - firstly there was no fight between the British and Germans on the 1st of September when Polish destroyers first met elements of the British Navy on the North Sea - so what they were supposed to join - how do you know they haven't joined the fight pretty soon after becoming interoperational with the British Navy - btw do you think Polish and British Navy were interoperational in the interbellum period? based on what?

So, simply because Britain wasn't fighting, Poland couldn't? Pathetic.

the whole Peking Plan (devised by Arthur de Wiart the chief of British military mission to Poland in 1939 - as wikipedia states) was to save some of the Polish Navy from certain destruction early in the war as demonstrated by the fate of those bigger ships that remained in Polish coastal waters - (ORP Wicher and ORP Gryf - both were sunk early in the war (in the first week of the war AFAIK)- just use wikipedia - the English one has articles both on ORP Wicher and ORP Gryf) - Germans simply had huge advantage over the Polish Navy not to mention the ships were a pretty easy prey for their Stukas which could be over Polish coast in minutes from their bases) - you can read on the English wikipedia that the three Polish destroyers proved useful for the Allies in the later years of the war and that shows Operation Peking made sense

turning around in the middle of North Sea to fight the Germans either on Baltic or on the North Sea on the September 1 was against the basic idea of the Peking Plan (Operation Peking) - and it could prove disastrous simply - the Germans could have easily taken out the squadron fighitng alone (their U-boots spotted the squadron on August 31 in Kattegat and a then also a German sea plane followed it for a time - meaning Germans knew of the presence of the Polish squadron in the North Sea) - remember the ships were humble destroyers not some dreadnoughts/ships of the line - and I guess Germans could muster an overwhelming force in hours to hunt the Polish ships in case they headed towards the German coast (a kamikaze raid anyone??)

btw I think the three Polish destroyers would have joined any action if the situation pressed to assist the British - the situation did not demand it however on the 1st of September 1939 (mainly because Germany and Britain were not in war)

You are claiming that a treaty between two nations was a 'local agreement': prove it.

you behave like a spoilt child - and as if your opinion was somehow superior - show me yours I'll show you mine :P (should I start to think you don't have nothing to back up your claim??)
OP David_18 68 | 982
6 May 2011  #218
What about them? You don't like Bandera?

This is what Dmytro Klyachkivsky an close friend to Bandera said.

We should undertake the great action of the liqutidation of the Polish element. As the German armies withdraw, we should take advantage of this convenient moment for liquidating the entire male population in the age from 16 up to 60 years. We cannot lose this fight, and it is necessary at all costs to weaken Polish forces. Villages and settlements laying next to the massive forests, should disappear from the face of the earth.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmytro_Klyachkivsky

And this is what happend in the Volhynia massacre

Villages were torched. Roman Catholic priests were axed or crucified. Churches were burned with all their parishioners. Isolated farms were attacked by gangs carrying pitchforks and kitchen knives. Throats were cut. Pregnant women were bayoneted. Children were cut in two. Men were ambushed in the field and led away. The perpetrators could not determine the province's future. But at least they could determine that it would be a future without Poles.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia#Volhynia

HOW the hell can you compare this to anything that the Poles did?
Nathan 18 | 1,363
6 May 2011  #219
This is what Dmytro Klyachkivsky an close friend to Bandera said.

And this is what Josef Biss and his Polish army did:

Like the year before, on March 10, 2010, at the cemetery in Sahryn (near Hrubieszów) mourning prayer was served for the Orthodox Ukrainians (...)

orthodoxbeacon.com/world/orthodox-prayer-at-66th-anniversary-of-the-tragedy-in-sahryn/

Olga Basarab - a Ukrainian woman, political activist: arrested on accusations of spying, tortured and murdered by Poles in 1924:

She died in prison in unclear circumstances. The Polish government was accused of torturing her to death,[3] although this accusation was never conclusively proven [2][4]. Martha Bohachevsky-Chomia from Canadian Institute of Ukrainian Studies Press claims the Polish government initially presented her death as a suicide but subsequent exhumation of her body showed that she had been murdered in their custody.[1]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olha_Basarab

Bereza Kartuska Concentration Camp - hundreds of Ukrainians died, thousands tortured in 1934-1939. Many who were in this Polish camp became the leaders of UPA later on.

Jaworzno - Polish concentration camp:

A separate subcamp existed for the ethnic Lemko and Ukrainian prisoners... the special subcamp of Jaworzno on May 5 and the number of these prisoners eventually totalled almost 4,000 (including nearly 1,000 women and children); the vast majority of them arrived in 1947..

naukowy.pl/encyklopedia/Partyzanckie_walki_polsko-ukrai%C5%84skie_w_latach_1944-1945

Roman Kisiel - leader of Polish Chlopski Battalion:

Those are the places and number of Ukrainians murdered by this battalion according to Polish sources.
What is interesting, the literature presented as a source can be found in the following Polish sources:

Romana Kisiela Sępa", Pamięć i Sprawiedliwość nr 2 (2005)

- translation: "Remembrance and Justice" - so, this is your justice?

Roman Kisiel - "Bez munduru my żołnierze 1939-1944", Warszawa 1969

- trans.: "Without a uniform we are soldiers 1939-1944" - yes, you are, indeed.
And the list of these brutal murders is endless.

In regards to Józef Biss - he was exonerated by the Polish court in 1991:

How is that? Where is your justice? You jump around on Bandera, why not start with Biss?

Let's come to the conclusion that both sides did atrocities, both sides were equally barbaric in many cases and both sides regard the actions justified: "because you started first and we retaliated blah-blah-blah", "we just closed your libraries, burnt churches and prevented you from getting jobs and live like humans and you, bastards, killed our women and kids; how brutal you are against our civilized actions". It is a pointless conversation because you don't want to accept the guilt of BOTH. I do. If you don't and start putting me "first started" BS, then there is no point in continuing.

denying the monstrous atrocities commited by UPA on Polish civilians

I don't deny as I don't deny monstruous Polish atrocities committed on Ukrainian civilians. Jozef Biss taught me something and I hope Bandera taught you something. You are reasonable and oftentime we have no trouble to find a common language.
Harry
6 May 2011  #220
You could try to invade Germany.

Where and from where? And with what?

the whole Peking Plan (devised by Arthur de Wiart the chief of British military mission to Poland in 1939 - as wikipedia states)

Wikipedia also states "citation needed" with regard to that point, which often means that the 'fact' in question has been made up.

as if your opinion was somehow superior

You are claiming that an interim treaty between two nation states was just a local agreement: prove it.
OP David_18 68 | 982
6 May 2011  #221
Let's come to the conclusion that both sides did atrocities

How can you compare 100 deaths to 100.000 deaths?

Seriously the Ukrainians ways of killing people were more brutal then the Germans. Makes me sick to even think of an ukrainian slicing a Polish child in two...
Maaarysia
6 May 2011  #222
I don't deny as I don't deny monstruous Polish atrocities committed on Ukrainian civilians. Jozef Biss taught me something and I hope Bandera taught you something.

You compeletely have no respect to those people who died. In my pm I said that as a Polish person I feel sorry for all those oppressions which Ukrainian nation suffered. I was expecting to hear similar thing from you. But you keep on going with your "evil Poles got what they deserved for".

That's ok. I will using your comments as a great example of Polish-Ukrainian friendship for those who still believes in such thing...
Arkansa
6 May 2011  #223
I think Polish people should be more carefully regards ukrainians becouse they are cruel bastards
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
6 May 2011  #224
I think Polish people should be more thorough next time.
gumishu 11 | 4,953
6 May 2011  #225
Wikipedia also states "citation needed" with regard to that point, which often means that the 'fact' in question has been made up.

read the article about Arthur de Wiart - it states the same thing even in greater detail Adrian Carton de Wiart
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Carton_De_Wiart

sorry about the mistake in the name
antheads 12 | 320
6 May 2011  #226
Where and from where? And with what?

Are you dense? The rhine was undefended as germany had commited most of her troops to invade poland. The agreement called for an attack from france. If Brittain and France had fufilled their obigations and actually went to war with germany , (instead of a dupicitous paper war) Russia would never have invaded poland. But i mean you can't expect much more from the brits, look how they fled france when hitler showed up, they needed american backbone to even compeplate landing into europe.

Wikipedia also states "citation needed" with regard to that point, which often means that the 'fact' in question has been made up.

No it dosn't, its a possibiity that is all.
el Croata 1 | 34
6 May 2011  #227
Ukraina is some mix beetwen Russia and Poland?

It's joke, it's joke!

I didn't know that ukraina-polish relationship is so tense.

It seems to me that Ukraina is top winer of WW2.

600 000 km2.

Jeez!!
antheads 12 | 320
6 May 2011  #228
I didn't know that ukraina-polish relationship is so tense.

it is not. but i can understand how you get that impression from reading this forum
piktoonis - | 86
6 May 2011  #229
In my opinion the big difference between Poland and Ukraine is because Poland was a state before, while Ukraine had build it from scratch.
Harry
6 May 2011  #230
The rhine was undefended as germany had commited most of her troops to invade poland.

Germany had 78 divisions, 60 were used to attack Poland, i.e. the Germans had twice as many divisions left on the western border as the British had in total. Oh, and there's the small point that the attack would need to be made from France (where the British troops were not) and that the French didn't agree to that attack.

The agreement called for an attack from france.

No it did not. The Anglo-Polish treaty doesn't even contain the word 'France'! Why must you lie about what the treaty said?

If Brittain and France had fufilled their obigations and actually went to war with germany ,

You keep on claiming that Britain didn't fulfil her obligations but despite being asked many times you have made no attempt at all to go into detail about what more British could have done to fulfil her obligations under the Anglo-Polish treaty. Why won't you give any detail?

read the article about Arthur de Wiart - it states the same thing even in greater detail

Yes, I read it, and noted that it gives precisely the same source as the first article: i.e. none.

Please, keep to the original topic.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
6 May 2011  #231
Ukraina is some mix beetwen Russia and Poland?

Yes, when a Pole marries a Russian and they have a child, the child becomes Ukrainian.

I didn't know that ukraina-polish relationship is so tense.

Sometimes; what should happen is this: West Ukraine should secede and become part of Poland; maybe call that part Polkrania.
East Ukraine should secede also and become part of Russia; maybe call it Russkrania.

Anyone who doesn't like that should move to Belarus(Belorussia).
Ironside 47 | 9,550
7 May 2011  #232
so, this is your justice?

Sure, they were locals, they knew who is who - did you expect to get away with murdering kids and women scot free?
Nathan 18 | 1,363
7 May 2011  #233
becouse they are cruel bastards

I just had a Polish kid for lunch. Yummi :) That anger-juice makes the meat more palatable.

It seems to me that Ukraina is top winer of WW2.

Would you consider Croatia a winner after losing 7.5 milion people?! You would seize to exist. We paid dearly in that damn war - the consequences are still felt.

I didn't know that ukraina-polish relationship is so tense

It used too, not anymore. The forum is just a way to find the truth or at least some middle-ground between the two. It is impossible, but we have to try.

I will using your comments

Maaarysia, go already and tell your friends. How many times are you going to repeat it? I am tired to hold goose-bumps on my skin ;)
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
7 May 2011  #234
Would you consider Croatia a winner after losing 7.5 milion people?!

They werent people, they were ukrainians.
southern 75 | 7,097
7 May 2011  #235
There is a mutual dislike.When you move from Poland to Ukraine you think ''Ukraine what a sh1thole,what thieves and blackmailers live here.''But when you move from Ukraina to Polska you think ''Poles what a bunch of egoist,cold,self obsessed non helping basterds,how nice are Ukrainians and how cruel Polaci.''So there is a difference in mentality which might fire a conflict here and there probably in 1941 fuelled by external powers as well.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
7 May 2011  #236
''Poles what a bunch of egoist,cold,self obsessed non helping basterds

You're only referring to the women, right?
southern 75 | 7,097
7 May 2011  #237
It is the general impression.For example an Ukrainian will help you especially if you offer some money but a Pole will not(unless you offer much more money).I mean in Ukraina there is so much corruption you get away with everything and then you get to Poland where they play German ethics while in reality you know that they are corrupted as well but set a higher price pretending they are not.
Torq 26 | 2,368
7 May 2011  #238
Southern, I will not call you a c*nt.

*that'll be 100 euro though*
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,445
7 May 2011  #239
I actually find his observations interesting.
Arkansa
7 May 2011  #240
Ukrainians are mis Russians wita Tatars and Turks

Home / News / Poland A and Ukraine B. Compare how far Poland has advanced.
Discussion is closed.