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Tusk or Hollande -- a Salomonic dilemma? What will be better for Poland?


Crow 148 | 9,283
13 Mar 2017 #151
Poles would tell it for themselves. They would found it in their hearts, or they won`t. But, what I know for certain, we Serbians would repay our debt to Poland. We shall stand, we shall fight, we shall create maneuverable space to Poles, we would be first line and last line. That I know. There would be great battle for Poland. Battle that actually already started, in war that never ended. In war imposed on us
Crow 148 | 9,283
13 Mar 2017 #152
When EU was deeply involved in destruction of Yugoslavia (by sponsoring pro-Nazi and pro-extreme Muslim forces), Russia wasn`t able to help. Russians felt ashamed and they made song about that shame of theirs. See, we Serbians won`t be ashamed. We would be there for Poland in time. There won`t be sad song about Poland

Lena Katina (of TATU) - YUGOSLAVIA

[youtu.be/gdTvnd2I67E

[youtu.be/QeCNl2oY9wE

I know what EU want. It count on internal turmoils in Poland. They count on separation of Silesia. Separation of Swinouscie. Etc. It count on dissolution of Poland due to clash between pro-EU and anti-EU forces. But, it won`t pass. It won`t happen. It won`t be allowed
Crow 148 | 9,283
13 Mar 2017 #153
Long live sovereign and independent Poland!

Jugosławia - Lena Katina (przekład na język polski Renata Miłosz)


Bobko
13 Mar 2017 #154
More Irish than the Irish themselves - Haha!

It's lovely to see Serbs teaching Poles on how to love Poland properly.

Similar to Polish misconceptions about how much of a **** Russia gives (Poland is probably #50 at best, in list of Russian priorities), I think you are laboring under an unfortunate assumption that anybody in Poland gives two craps about Serbia's view on anything. At least in the case of Russia there is the Orthodox connection, and Czarist era history - but with Poland... there is really nothing there.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
13 Mar 2017 #155
are laboring under an unfortunate assumption that anybody in Poland gives two craps about Serbia's view on anything.

maybe you should speak for yourselves huh? whats fkng wrong with someone expressing his view? i do give a craps how other ppl perceive Poland and its politics,their view and ideas...only idiots dont care and only listen to yourselves.

but with Poland... there is really nothing there.

huh..bazyllion things more than poland has in common with lets say french.how bout we share border,history,culture,similar language,tradition,religion we slavic for starter and maybe panslavism its a valid idea for future of Poland.
Crow 148 | 9,283
13 Mar 2017 #156
If you are right, then EU knows what EU doing. Its then already settled. They just finalizing process of Poland`s final assimilation.

But, I think you are wrong. Polish patriots (Catholics) are with Serbians. Same way, we Serbs won`t fail them. Its above Catholicism-Orthodoxy. Its Sarmatian connection.

Examples, from different layers of Polish society - Spot also parallelism with situation with EU and Poland (Polish patriots sensed danger from EU, even years ago) >>>

MW Kraków przeciwko rozbiorom Serbii



Janusz Korwin Mikke: Amerykańskie samoloty BOMBARDOWAŁY MIASTA CYWILNE odrywając KOSOWO!



Prof.dr hab. Jerzy Robert Nowak, Radio Maryja (2008-04-26) - Rola Niemiec w rozbiciu Jugosławii



Poland March for Serbian Kosovo



WARSZAWA: III MARSZ KOSOVO JEST SERBSKIE


Bobko 9 | 149
13 Mar 2017 #157
maybe you should speak for yourselves huh? whats fkng wrong with someone expressing his view?

gregy741 - I'm sorry if I came across as rude. I certainly don't think there is anything wrong with Mr. Crow expressing his views - everyone is entitled to their opinion. Rather than silence anyone, I wanted to point out that he may be "barking up the wrong tree" - as in, the majority of Poles (as I'm sure you would agree), as well as the majority of foreign policy decision-makers in Poland - are not at all concerned with the views of Serbia on Poland-EU issues.

Also, since when do Serbia and Poland share borders? Last I remember there were two countries in between, and quite some distance.

In terms of history, I believe the two would have been on opposite sides more often than not. Whether it be Polish knights facing off against Serbian-born Janissaries in medieval times, or in modern times Poland being the first Slavic nation to recognize Kosovo (after also being the first Slavic nation to endorse the NATO operation).

Though I am absolutely neutral in this question - I would have to say that Russia is likely the only "friend" Serbia has right now. And even in this case, I think the Serbians are unfortunately being used by the "big brother" for his own purposes, rather than out of any true concern for Serbia's interests.
Bobko 9 | 149
13 Mar 2017 #158
Crow Its above Catholicism-Orthodoxy. Its Sarmatian connection.

Come on now. Sarmatism is nothing but a form of Magnate-era Polish upper-class fascism. If Poles and Serbs are Sarmats then I am a monkey's uncle.

Sarmatism was a convenient way for the szlachta to separate themselves from the peasants they ruled (avg poles, rusyns, ukrainians, etc).

Why look for conspirological links between the two people, when there is already a real, genetic connection between them as fellow Slavs?
Crow 148 | 9,283
13 Mar 2017 #159
Whether it be Polish knights facing off against Serbian-born Janissaries in medieval times

Janissaries were not even traitors. Rather, they were sad creatures forcible, as very little children, taken (as `tax in blood`) from their families and trained in service of madman sultan. But at the same time, Serbians were fighting side by side with Poles, from the Grunwald, to the Orsha and Vienna, etc, etc.

I would just remind you that those were medieval Serbians who triggered golden age in Poland during Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, where Serbs acted as military elite of society, which at that time, by opinion of experts on the matter, had most superior cavalry in the world. Cavalry that gave Polish Winged Cavalry, Hungarian Hussars, USA `wild-west` cavalry, finalized doctrine of Russian Cossack's. Among else, it is thanks to Serbian cavalry doctrine that made Poles won the battle of Grunwald. So no wonder that greatest Polish national hero of all times Zawisha Czearny died fighting for liberation of Serbians, in Golubac. Or remind yourself how Serbian gusle players (as voice of ancestors, from old core) were used to perform at the court of Polish Władysław II Jagiełło. Polish poets of the 17th century mentioned gusle, too. In a poem published in 1612, Kasper Miaskowski wrote that "the Serbian gusle and gaidas will overwhelm Shrove Tuesday" (Serbskie skrzypki i dudy ostatek zagluszą). In the idyll named Śpiewacy, published in 1663, Józef Bartłomiej Zimorowic used the phrase "to sing to the Serbian gusle" (przy Serbskich gęślach śpiewać).
Bobko 9 | 149
13 Mar 2017 #160
Crow

You conveniently skipped over that part of my comment, which referenced actual AND recent Polish actions which ran counter to Serbian national interests.

On a separate note - if I was Serbian I would be proud of the Janisseries. As a small nation, Serbia could not hope to resist the Ottomans alone for any length of time - nothing shameful in that - but as soldiers within the Osman empire they constituted the elite. Those dudes were badasses - no two ways about it!

Someone should make a movie about the Janisseries.
Crow 148 | 9,283
13 Mar 2017 #161
If Poles and Serbs are Sarmats then I am a monkey's uncle.

monkey? monkey. you said it, not me.

Sarmatism was a convenient way for the szlachta to separate themselves from the peasants they ruled (avg poles, rusyns, ukrainians, etc).

So, you agree to Anglo-Germanic historical school that says how Poles so much adored to Iranian semites that they succumbed to their culture and acquired Sarmatism? Created even legends of it how Poles originate from Iranian semites? Is that it, what you want to tell? Please. I rather think its monkey business of yours.

Modern science confirmed. Sarmatian name was once universal name of all Slavs and Sarmats were not Iranian semites but European natives.
Bobko 9 | 149
13 Mar 2017 #162
@Crow

Again, I don't understand why this fantastic Sarmatian connection is necessary when there are other, more established connections between the two peoples.

I don't want to derail this thread, which is intended to discuss the recent epic fail of the PiSlamists, with discussions of Sarmatism.
mafketis 25 | 9,313
13 Mar 2017 #163
with discussions of Sarmatism.

But that's all Crow has. He's like a small lizard who brags about his great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather who was a dragon.
Bobko 9 | 149
13 Mar 2017 #164
mafketis But that's all Crow has.

I'm new to PolishForums (created an account this morning, because I enjoyed the commentary from some, yourself included, on the recent developments surrounding the EU Council president elections).

I found it curious, however, how much Serbia seemed to figure in the discussion. It's only now that I realize it's just 1-2 posters who account for all this. Looking at Crow's profile now, I see he is somewhat of a veteran here.
Crow 148 | 9,283
13 Mar 2017 #165
You conveniently skipped over that part of my comment, which referenced actual AND recent Polish actions which ran counter to Serbian national interests.

I skipped nothing. Those Poles who betrayed Serbians, betrayed Poland. Look on those video above that I gave of Poles who support Serbians.

But, I would later tell you more on that part, be sure of it.

Those dudes were badasses - no two ways about

When Turks attacked, as historians wrote and calculated, Serbians were more numerous then English. Comparing to other Slavs, they were equal in number to Poles or maybe even more numerous. Effectively, Turkish invasion on Europe were stooped on Serbian ground. No wonder that only Turkish sultan that ever died in battle, died from the hand of Serbian in Battle of Kosovo in 1389, when Voivode of Knights Milos Obilic opened his stomach.

As for Janisseries. Its one of saddest episodes of our past. Tax in blood. Those children we won`t forgive to Turks. Sure, they were best in Turkish cavalry and army. Turks profited there (they got warriors of they could only dream of- dinarid whites, most robust and tallest of white race; finest). They stolen our children and then plus cavalry doctrine. Just, in case of Poland, Russia and Hungary, that doctrine more or less served to good. In case of USA wild-west and Turkish cavalry it served to evil.

But, it would be worth to mention that those were Poles who were first to come in aid to Serbians when Ottomans attacked. Fought violently and sincere to help us. Even lost King Wladoslaw Warnenchyk in battle. As well, helping to Serbs, Polish warlords fought to protect old wealth flow from Baltic amber trade route to Balkans and Mediterranean. See, it was even deeper then just feelings. At the same time, western Europeans collaborated with Turks.

As Nikola Tesla wrote, in his book `My inventions`: ``Hardly is there a nation which has met with a sadder fate than the Serbians. From the height of its splendor, when the empire embraced almost the entire northern part of the Balkan peninsula and a large portion of what is now Austria, the Serbian nation was plunged into abject slavery, after the fateful battle of 1389 at the Kosovo Polje, against the overwhelming Asian hordes. Europe can never repay the great debt it owes to the Serbians for checking, by the sacrifice of its own liberty, that barbarian influx.``
mafketis 25 | 9,313
13 Mar 2017 #166
he is somewhat of a veteran here

yes, kind of a resident kook (why he doesn't actually find a forum with more Polish people I'm not sure....)
Bobko 9 | 149
13 Mar 2017 #167
mafketis

I'm curious what you think about the latest re: last week's vote.

theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/13/poland-fumes-at-cheating-eu-for-keeping-donald-tusk-in-top-post

This comment from Waszczykowski in the above article has me confused:

"We must adapt our policies and adjust our behaviour concerning the EU. Certainly, we must lower our level of confidence in the EU. We will have to start following a negative policy," he continued, saying that could include "blocking" various European initiatives."

Are they planning on going full-retard? Don't they know that you should never go full retard?!

retard
delphiandomine 88 | 18,456
13 Mar 2017 #168
Are they planning on going full-retard?

It's part of a deliberate plan. Support for the EU in Poland lies at between 70-80%, but as we know from Brexit, a concentrated campaign filled with lies can be effective. A Polexit is very much in their favour - after that, there'll be very little to stop them from manipulating elections and turning Poland into a one party state.
Bobko 9 | 149
13 Mar 2017 #169
@delphiandomine

Coming on the heels of Hollande's statement from two weeks ago that a "multi-speed" Europe is the only alternative to a full-scale implosion of the European project (which the PiS cry-babies immediately denounced, although I think its clear to everyone now that this is the only way), I think these recent outbursts from the PiS government will do their job of convincing the core EU countries that something needs to be done and ASAP.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,456
13 Mar 2017 #170
I think these recent outbursts from the PiS government will do their job of convincing the core EU countries that something needs to be done and ASAP.

I think so too. It's pretty clear that other countries have had enough of Poland now, and I'm almost certain a carrot-and-stick approach will be used. Countries that want to integrate properly will be offered significant financial benefits for doing so, while those remaining in a UK-type position will receive much less. Countries like Poland and Hungary will have to decide whether they want to adopt EU norms along with the cash, or if they think their electorate will be satisfied with far less money.

Still, the actions of PiS was a very clear sign that Poland wasn't ready for EU membership. I've seen plenty of educated commentators saying that the last 26 years may have been just a blip in Polish history, and the country is condemned to return to a miserable existence.
Bobko 9 | 149
13 Mar 2017 #171
I think it may be interesting for some forum members what Ukrainians think about all this. Seeing as they view Poland as their torpedo inside the EU (without Poland, it would have certainly been harder to keep Ukraine at the top of the EU agenda, what with Brexit, and the refugee cataclysm among other things). And now it seems like there may not even be an EU when the Ukranians are ready to join, thanks to their Polish brothers' hard work on the inside.

This article in Korrespondent (#1 Ukrainian news portal) covers the Tusk re-election:

korrespondent.net/world/3825287-tusk-razdora-pochemu-polsha-zahovoryla-o-krakhe-es

The comments under the article can be summarized as Ukrainians being confused who is the Putin agent here - Tusk or Szydlo? Hahaha
Crow 148 | 9,283
14 Mar 2017 #172
What we also see on the scene is obstruction of Germany to transform EU into new Reich. It all went in that direction and global politics suddenly changed. Think about that. Just remind yourself how Trump explained that Germany organized EU to serve her interests. Sure, it was no secret from long time ago but, Trump`s statement changed things. It had its weight. It said that Germany lost USA support for its expansionism.

See, without these global changes, Poland even wouldn`t have a chance. Now, this way, maybe. Maybe escape unharmed or with few bruises.
Crnogorac3 2 | 371
14 Mar 2017 #173
More Irish than the Irish themselves - Haha!

https://polishforums.com/off-topic/slav-blessing-curse-50607/6/#msg1586019

Check this and then you will realise how very little people know. Like our people, Polish people are being taught a fake version of history which has been standardized since the Congress of Berlin 1878 and which favours the Viennese-German school. Serbia was forced to give up it's ancient history, the way it was once taught, as a condition for it's recognition.

wikipedia.org/wiki/Congress_of_Berlin]https
Bobko 9 | 149
14 Mar 2017 #174
Serbia was forced to give up it's ancient history, the way it was once taught, as a condition for it's recognition.

Why do I get this feeling, that Crnogorac3 and Crow are the same crazy Serb?

Back on topic, here's something I had missed, personally. It's rather old news, seeing as it came before the Tusk re-election, but given the events of the past week I think is more relevant than ever:

wort.lu/en/politics/jean-asselborn-poland-could-be-eu-member-no-longer-says-luxembourg-foreign-minister-58b3f150a5e74263e13ab365

The article is short, so I will quote it here in its entirety:

Luxembourg Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn has questioned Poland's place within the EU, telling German newspaper Tagesspiegel that "today's Poland under Jaroslaw Kaczynski could be an EU member no longer".

He went on to argue that Poland "no longer respects the Copenhagen criteria that the country had to meet before EU accession".

"The government in Poland is more and more involved in restricting the rule of law," he said, adding that the country may have been emboldened by the recent actions of Hungary.

"But there is something else in Poland," he said. "Jaroslaw Kaczynski, the head of the PiS government division, is an ideologue. He believes the EU is a brake-pedal for Poland.

"He wants to create a right-wing conservative social order based on nationality."

This is not the first time Asselborn has publicly criticised a fellow member state.

In September, he called for Hungary to be suspended from the EU for violating democratic "core values" and treating refugees like "animals".

mafketis 25 | 9,313
14 Mar 2017 #175
Why do I get this feeling, that Crnogorac3 and Crow are the same crazy Serb?

There's never been a shortage of crazy Serbs, but I think Crnogroac is either Montenegrin (apparently big into Putain) or a Russian troll, maybe paid.

Luxembourg Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn

He's a little fish in an even littler pond...
Ziemowit 13 | 4,407
14 Mar 2017 #176
Why do I get this feeling, that Crnogorac3 and Crow are the same crazy Serb?

They are not the same, the level of their English is strikingly different.

but I think Crnogroac is either Montenegrin.

Crnogorac may be Montenegrin (Montenegro - Crna Gora)

or a Russian troll, maybe paid.

You seem to have an obsession about the Russian paid trolls on this forum, Maf!
mafketis 25 | 9,313
14 Mar 2017 #177
You seem to have an obsession about the Russian paid trolls on this forum

And you seem oddly.... indifferent. Almost as if you were trying to deflect suspicion.... hmmmmm
Bobko 9 | 149
14 Mar 2017 #178
He's a little fish in an even littler pond...

Perhaps.

This also allows him to say things that would be more difficult for Hollande or Merkel to pronounce out loud.

P.S. - Speaking of Montenegro and Russian trolls - interesting things happening there:

telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/12/boris-johnson-claims-russia-behind-plot-assassinate-prime-minister/
Crow 148 | 9,283
14 Mar 2017 #179
You are all morons. While you talk about Russian trolls, EU f**k Poland.
cms 9 | 1,255
14 Mar 2017 #180
Well the results of the EU screwing Poland is to double its wealth in 10 years and raise all aspects of lving standa do for all sections of Polish society.

Meanwhile Belgrade life resembles something like a 1995 version of Warsaw - rickety trams, rude officials, awful shopping and the waft of cheap cigarettes everywhere including during meetings.

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