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Tusk or Hollande -- a Salomonic dilemma? What will be better for Poland?


OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
11 Mar 2017 #91
Polish government

Poland will not agree to financial blackmail or a multi-speed Europe, the Polish Prime Minister said after informal talks between 27 EU countries. Polish Prime Minister Beata Szydło said French President François Hollande "blackmailed" Poland during the meeting when he said: "You have your rules, we have structural funds". (Elsewhere it was translated as "you have your principles, we have the money" -- both in extremely poor taste!))

"Poland is not worried about any blackmail.....politicians blackmailing countries would be an 'awful prospect' for the bloc." A declaration is to be signed at a summit to mark the 60th anniversary of the so-called Rome Treaties later this month.

According to Szydło, the declaration should not be a commemorative document but a roadmap to the EU's future, including reform, and ought to highlight the bloc's unity and rule out a multi-speed Europe."
mafketis 25 | 9,313
11 Mar 2017 #92
(Elsewhere it was translated as "you have your principles, we have the money" -- both in extremely poor taste!))

Tasteless but accurate. Do you think a lot of voters would be happy if JK's hubris and small-mindedness stopped the flow of EU money?

And a multi-speed Europe sounds pretty good or do you want to finally accept the Euro and have Poland lose all control over its economy?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
11 Mar 2017 #93
voters would be happy

Only the most ignorant voters have been blinded by POO propaganda and have succumbed to the illusion that the EU is altruistically pouring miullions into Poland. On balance, EU countries esp. Germany are getting far more than Poland has received in structural funds. Germany has acquired a huge consumer market eager to buy its products right next door. It has access to cheap manpower, low-cost or free factory sites, tax breaks and other privileges which all translate into €€€ $$$ or zł zł zł! The EU isa all about business and ain't doing anyone any favours.
Crow 148 | 9,283
11 Mar 2017 #94
My priest told me that decent Christian needs to pray even for his enemies. I shall recite few prayers for Tusk, before going to sleep. Maybe that help him to turn to Poland and show some respect. And mercy
mafketis 25 | 9,313
11 Mar 2017 #95
Maybe that help him to turn to Poland

It's not his current job to take partisan positions in Polish domestic politics. The failure of JK to understand that led to the current massive failure on the part of the Polish government.
Crow 148 | 9,283
11 Mar 2017 #96
I nicely said, to turn to Poland, not to take some partisan position. What you didn`t understand? Why you telling me unnecessary and stupid things, at evening, when I tries to relax and contemplate in peace?
gumishu 11 | 5,680
11 Mar 2017 #97
Tasteless but accurate. Do you think a lot of voters would be happy if JK's hubris and small-mindedness stopped the flow of EU money?

the structural funds are a compenstaion for opening markets for goods from the EU and other rules that affected new memebers' economies - if they are discontinued before agreed time we aka Poland have every right to introduce border taxes on the EU products
jon357 67 | 16,655
11 Mar 2017 #98
Do you think a lot of voters would be happy if JK's hubris and small-mindedness stopped the flow of EU money?

It would be electoral suicide.
cms 9 | 1,255
11 Mar 2017 #99
@gumishu

Erm...... yes. Maybe it would be useful to think through the consequences of that.They might then impose tariffs on Polish goods - that was the situation before 2004 and everyone was worse off.
Wincig 2 | 220
12 Mar 2017 #100
Germany are getting far more than Poland has received in structural funds. Germany has acquired a huge consumer market eager to buy its products right next door.

Get real, Polonius. If there is one country which has benefited from the EU and in particular from Schengen, it is Poland. What would have happened to those millions of Poles who went to find work abroad, in particular in the Uk , Germany..? They would have had to stay home unemployed because the previous Polish govts (PO and PiS) were incapable of creating enough jobs for them and Poland would have had a massive problem in its hand. I would even go as far as to argue that this massive benefit to Poland has been the main cause of Brexit and of the current difficulties experienced by the EU
NoToForeigners 10 | 1,032
12 Mar 2017 #101
Prepare fellow Poles.
Since the traitor Tusk is back in the office we have to prepare to fight off Brussels forcing Islamists on us. Gonna be a long long fight. At least 2,5 years long.

I would even go as far as to argue that this massive benefit to Poland has been the main cause of Brexit and of the current difficulties experienced by the EU

Buahahahh

The main cause of the EU crisis is EU interfering with sovereign countries' internal affairs and EU letting Islamists into Europe. The EU elites are to be blamed for the difficulties. No one else.
mafketis 25 | 9,313
12 Mar 2017 #102
ince the traitor Tusk is back in the office we have to prepare to fight off Brussels forcing Islamists on us

I agree that on principle there's no reason for Poland to try to help Mama Merkel keep up the pretense that her 2015 decision to open German borders to all comers was anything but an unprecedented disaster.

But look on the bright side, if they do send "refugees" here they'll just immediate decamp back to Germany.
NoToForeigners 10 | 1,032
12 Mar 2017 #103
do send "refugees" here they'll just immediate decamp back to Germany.

Thing is Poles will not accept them and that will lead to violence. Maybe that's what the EU really wants...
mafketis 25 | 9,313
12 Mar 2017 #104
Maybe that's what the EU really wants...

Figuring out what EU leaders want has long been a loser's game. They have some weird agenda (or are simply stupid beyond belief).
Marsupial - | 886
12 Mar 2017 #105
Pointless. None of these people will ever stay in Poland. The second they can they will be across the western border. The ones that try will have their lives made so difficult they will also leave. One thing Poland doesn't have to worry about is that. They won't make it there and cant expect a life there. Only dumb right wing nazis in Poland think that the country is advanced enough to attract these people. Under pis it has no chance of ever advancing either except backwards. Just poinless babble from uneducated losers.
Harry
12 Mar 2017 #106
her 2015 decision to open German borders to all comers

Any chance you're ever going to substantiate that claim you make so often with a quote from Merkel?
Crow 148 | 9,283
12 Mar 2017 #107
Buahahahh

It is laughable. I agree to it. But, let us not underestimate such a statements. Blaming Poland for all kind of things becoming trend on the west of Europe and in minds of people influenced by mainstream media.
mafketis 25 | 9,313
12 Mar 2017 #108
Any chance you're ever going to substantiate that claim you make so often with a quote from Merkel?

I don't need to. Actions speak louder than words. She had border security set up, but lost her nerve and let the floodgates of random people come into Germany.

thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/jittery-merkel-let-in-migrants-only-to-avoid-televised-border-clashes-dt3gjpcn]

What's your explanation for how they got into Germany?

i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/02/08/2BDECCD800000578-3218327-Anger_Migrants_also_travel_to_Germany_from_Budapest_Hungary_wher-a-24_1441178092747.jpg
Harry
12 Mar 2017 #109
I don't need to.

You certainly do need to substantiate claims: that's how discourse works, otherwise anybody can make any claim and then refuse to stand that claim up. You claim she invited them: substantiate that claim with a quote.

merkel-let-in-migrants-only-to-avoid-televised-border-clashes

Sorry, we can't find the page you are looking for

What's your explanation for how they got into Germany?

They got into Germany due to there being generally open borders inside the Schengen zone, perhaps you've heard of it?
Your claim is that Merkel invited them to Germany, so give us a quote of her giving that invitation.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,456
12 Mar 2017 #110
They have some weird agenda (or are simply stupid beyond belief).

The problem is also that the EU for many years had to try and find consensus on many issues rather than making difficult decisions, so you ended up with a lot of idiotic compromises that often reflected the objections of one country. It's not so bad after Lisbon, but there are still a lot of frankly idiotic decisions made because of one or two countries whining and blocking things until they get what they want.

The best example is with VAT. Instead of having a single EU-wide VAT rate with a unified system, we have a huge amount of different interpretations of EU VAT law and rates which makes life hell for businesses trying to keep up with it all.

But, and this is the big but - nothing like the EU had been tried before, so in a way, teething problems are inevitable.
mafketis 25 | 9,313
12 Mar 2017 #111
They got into Germany due to there being generally open borders inside the Schengen zone, perhaps you've heard of it?

dailycaller.com/2017/03/05/merkel-allegedly-changed-her-mind-on-closing-borders-last-minute-then-1-million-refugees-arrived

She made the decision to not police the border. They wanted to go to Germany for the welfare and she decided to not stop them.

She had other options, she decided to not exercise them because she's an emotional, jittery, panicky leader who needs to be removed from office with all due, legal speed.
Harry
12 Mar 2017 #112
merkel-allegedly

See the tiny problem there?

Any chance of that quote I've been asking you for for months?
mafketis 25 | 9,313
12 Mar 2017 #113
Any chance of that quote I've been asking you for for months?

I think you have me confused with someone else. I don't care what she said or didn't say. Go play your trolling trix with someone else, rabbit.

The real world effect of her policy has been to burder her own country with hundreds of thousands of people who have no realistic hope of every being anything but welfare pets. And she's strained relations across the continent as she tries to rescue her image form the terrible effects of her terrible policy.

nothing like the EU had been tried before, so in a way, teething problems are inevitable.

I can appreciate that, but too many people in too many positions of influence and power seem unwilling to acknowledge any mistakes (like the Euro a currency that cannot ever possibly work for about half the countries in the EU and whose acceptance is still non-negotiable).

The idea that Germany could ever share a currency without common fiscal policy or transfers is jsut insane, and they're still trying to pretend it can work.
Harry
12 Mar 2017 #114
I think you have me confused with someone else. I don't care what she said or didn't say.

No, it's you, just look at your own posts: ?phrase=Merkel
mafketis 25 | 9,313
12 Mar 2017 #115
No, it's you

If you're too stupid to understand figurative language I'll make it easy for you: I freely admit she never said "I'm inviting a bunch of people to Germany!" (in any language nor did she use the word invite or any similar word during the "refugee" crisis).

On the other hand, she might as well have invited them because the end result of her terrible policy has been the exact same as it would have been if she did use the word "invite": She's burdened the German taxpayer with the perpetual upkeep of hundreds of thousands of young men with no hope of ever being anything but criminals or wards of the state and who go beserk at regular intervals and start attacking German citizens. And she's trying to ship some of them to other countries that don't want them because their leaders aren't as emotionally unstable as Merkel (well JK is but in a different direction).

You really can't defend Merkel's policies vis a vis pseduo-refugees that poured into Europe so you play silly word games.
Harry
12 Mar 2017 #116
You really can't defend Merkel's policies vis a vis pseduo-refugees that poured into Europe

Yes, damn those Germans who want to respect their obligations under international law!
mafketis 25 | 9,313
12 Mar 2017 #117
under international law!

International law required them to register in the first safe country. Most of them crossed half a dozen safe countries in search of the German Taxpayer's teat.
Harry
12 Mar 2017 #118
International law required them to register in the first safe country.

No it does not. Neither the 1951 Refugee Convention nor the 1967 protocol to the convention contain any such requirement.
Feel free to quote from them:
unhcr.org/protect/PROTECTION/3b66c2aa10.pdf
unhcr.org/pages/49da0e466.html
mafketis 25 | 9,313
12 Mar 2017 #119
Neither the 1951 Refugee Convention

It's all a little theoretical since the majority of those who arrived in Germany due to Merkel's decision to not close the border are not refugees by any stretch of the imagination.

dw.com/en/in-eu-asylum-applicants-jump-to-213000-in-three-months/a-18723295
Harry
12 Mar 2017 #120
It's all a little theoretical

It's not 'theoretical' at all: there very simply is no obligation under any international law for refugees to do what you claim they have to do and your claim is at best completely incorrect.

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