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Poland: In Top First 15 Countries in the WORLD by the number of CRIMES


Wroclaw Boy
14 Feb 2010 #211
You're an apologist for the lazy and unambitious.

No im English, i think the left and right wing differences betwen our home nations political polocies are coming into play here.

So your basically stating that in your opinion Poles emmigrating to the UK are the same as Brits living and working in Bahrain for example. Whilst i agree that money is the driving force i totally disagree that its the same for Poles.

It's not a wonder country, but anyone that gets off of their ass and decides they want to "live well" can do so.

No they cant.

but they move to London because they'll get paid twice as much.

Even if they dont move to London they will most likely have a perfectly financially stable life, in Poland thats not the case.

Your ignoring the numbers ---- 1,000,000 + Poles emmigrated for work to the UK in two years, what does that tell you? Lets not even mention the other millions in many other EU countries. Why would they do that???????
convex 20 | 3,978
14 Feb 2010 #212
Whilst i agree that money is the driving force i totally disagree that its the same for Poles.

Why did Poles move to the UK in massive numbers instead of to Sweden and Finland? The proportion that went to the UK is much higher...it might have something to do with higher wages. Instead of applying for a work permit and hoping over the border to Germany, most Poles got on a plane and went to the UK. The UK was a shining pot of gold, especially with the strong pound.

No they cant.

That's a huge discredit to all the people that did exactly that.

Even if they dont move to London they will most likely have a perfectly financially stable life, in Poland thats not the case.

Quite a few people in the UK have the option of commuting to high paying jobs and bringing that money back into their communities. That is very slowly emerging as a viable option here as well.

As the middle class continues growing, less and less work will be required to be in a position to live comfortably in Poland.
Mikowwa
15 Feb 2010 #213
Polish people are responsible for the rise in criminality in UK only, not just in Poland...
convex 20 | 3,978
15 Feb 2010 #214
Yup, the rises in crime in the UK all through the 90's were definately directly the result of Poles.
Exiled 2 | 425
15 Feb 2010 #215
Poles are so peaceful they cannot even touch a fly.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
15 Feb 2010 #216
Poles, like the Japanese, go in for more specific kinds of crimes. The Japanese like to steal bicycles and umbrellas. The Poles, cars. Even then, it's vastly overplayed and tends to be a thing of the past. Given their relative poverty, the crime rate is pretty low.
kh siarko sanok 2 | 52
15 Feb 2010 #217
but it seems that from the all 278 countries in the world

Are you stupid or you just want something to ******** about.where on earth did you get these statistics from.people do not listen to him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Exiled 2 | 425
15 Feb 2010 #218
The albos steal even food remnants from the refrigerator.
childwithin 8 | 136
15 Feb 2010 #219
what is strange is that in the rest of the EU you're not overly crowded in a cell, in poland there's like 8 people in one cell
Exiled 2 | 425
15 Feb 2010 #220
It is because they share the vodka.Gayness is also extremely uncommon in Poland(otherwise every gay would strive to be imprisoned).
convex 20 | 3,978
15 Feb 2010 #221
what is strange is that in the rest of the EU you're not overly crowded in a cell, in poland there's like 8 people in one cell

Just out of curiosity, how many jails have you visited in Europe?
childwithin 8 | 136
15 Feb 2010 #223
Just out of curiosity, how many jails have you visited in Europe?

not many, don't ask me that, i won't answer, i honestly don't know, it's what i heard and i meant western europe
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
15 Feb 2010 #224
Poland: In Top First 15 Countries in the WORLD by the number of CRIMES

If this is true I really feel like I am not doing my bit.
Hhhhmmm...
TanaSs
15 Feb 2010 #225
in poland there's like 8 people in one cell

even more. it sucks to be in jail especially by accident... and police in Poland arrests so many times just the wrong person...
Exiled 2 | 425
15 Feb 2010 #227
Don't tell it to our gays.They will travel to Poland to get arrested.
jarnowa 4 | 499
15 Feb 2010 #228
It's not possible that Poland is more criminal than Belgium, Holland or UK.

Maybe car theft, but street violence, robberies and sexual harrasment happen a lot more in countries with non-European minorities.

Poland should protest officially against this nonsense research. It's an insult to Polish people.
Lopera
15 Feb 2010 #229
Poland should protest officially against this nonsense research. It's an insult to Polish people.

Yes of course. Let me guess... it is a conspiracy and polish people are persecuted... yes sure :))
Wroclaw Boy
15 Feb 2010 #230
Why did Poles move to the UK in massive numbers instead of to Sweden and Finland?

Because they couldnt make it in Poland, UK was the place to be at the time still is for many.

The proportion that went to the UK is much higher...it might have something to do with higher wages.

No its becasue they didnt have the opportunity in Poland, also the entry levels - the UK and Ireland didnt impose restrictions all the others did. Once Poland joined the EU in they flooded.

Instead of applying for a work permit and hoping over the border to Germany, most Poles got on a plane and went to the UK

Germany had restrictions, other wise they would have gone there, because they couldnt make it in Poland.

The UK was a shining pot of gold, especially with the strong pound.

No, it was a viable alternative to living in poverty in Poland. You think 1,000,000 + just went for more cash? they went becasue they had no option..... Im getting tired of this please provide other examples of countries citizens emmigrating by the millions in order for work. You still thinking Americans in bahrain????

That's a huge discredit to all the people that did exactly that.

Wrong again thats reality, of course there will be some that make it, but the majority do not.

Quite a few people in the UK have the option of commuting to high paying jobs and bringing that money back into their communities.

Of course they do but the point is even if they didnt they can live quite well without financial issues, in Poland thats not the case.

That is very slowly emerging as a viable option here as well.

Ahh ha so youre admitting it. Give it up dude, you aint going to win this one.

As the middle class continues growing, less and less work will be required to be in a position to live comfortably in Poland.

So youre basically admitting defeat, good about bloody time. Thats the sound of innevitability, (Agent Smith - Matrix).

I find youre attitude amusing to be honest, give it a few more years see how positive you are then.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
15 Feb 2010 #231
Sweden and Finland are really expensive and they pay 40% tax. That has to bite!

They didn't have the opportunities, I agree

Holland has restrictions too, good point made

Again, WB is right as the Poles didn't go for the gold. The really talented ones perhaps but not your average PaweĊ‚. Very much in the minority

Reality is reality and WB sees it here

Poles have to get tax breaks, put money 'na lokacie' and find ways to save on utilities (media in Polish) in order to feel that they have some disposable income. Reality is pretty bleak for some.
Wroclaw Boy
15 Feb 2010 #232
I think he knows hes flogging a dead horse and keeps pulling out the old rhetoric's. Im not having that im afraid.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
15 Feb 2010 #233
Sometimes you try to eke out sth after squeezing or pressing but try that with a stone and you will always get the same result.

Convex argues well but he is wide of the mark with the above, unless he has some stronger arguments up his sleeve.
convex 20 | 3,978
15 Feb 2010 #234
Because they couldnt make it in Poland, UK was the place to be at the time still is for many.

UK was the place to be because of higher wages. Instead of staying here in Poland and being a teacher for 1800 a month, you could go to the UK and can fish for three times that.

No its becasue they didnt have the opportunity in Poland, also the entry levels - the UK and Ireland didnt impose restrictions all the others did. Once Poland joined the EU in they flooded.

Again, there weren't floods of Poles into Sweden and Finland, the jobs just didn't pay as well.

Germany had restrictions, other wise they would have gone there, because they couldnt make it in Poland.

Germany issued half a million work permits last year. They're not shy about it...BUT, wages are lower in Germany than in the UK...

No, it was a viable alternative to living in poverty in Poland. You think 1,000,000 + just went for more cash? they went becasue they had no option..... Im getting tired of this please provide other examples of countries citizens emmigrating by the millions in order for work. You still thinking Americans in bahrain????

Uh, Italians in Germany, Greeks in Germany, Spanish in France, Turks in Germany, Canadians in the US....

Wrong again thats reality, of course there will be some that make it, but the majority do not.

Why don't they make it? Because they couldn't go to university? Because they couldn't study something useful?

Ahh ha so youre admitting it. Give it up dude, you aint going to win this one.

Of course they do but the point is even if they didnt they can live quite well without financial issues, in Poland thats not the case.

So youre basically admitting defeat, good about bloody time. Thats the sound of innevitability, (Agent Smith - Matrix).

No, you seem to confusing "getting easier" with impossible. It's getting easier for people who studied worthless subjects to get jobs paying a comfortable wage. Here, you need to move to where the jobs are, it's still a pain to commute. In the UK, you have the option of living a hundred miles from where you work because you have the infrastructure available to get from point a to point b in a timely manner.

Convex argues well but he is wide of the mark with the above, unless he has some stronger arguments up his sleeve.

What stronger argument is needed? People can live comfortably here, it's not easy, but it's an option, it's not fate. It's more difficult than in the UK, Germany, France, Scandinavia, but it is possible. I'm not trying to paint some picture of a magical fairy land, but to say that one doesn't have the option to live comfortably here is ridiculous. It's getting easier by the year to live comfortably.

Anyway, I need to get back to keeping the proletariat down.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
15 Feb 2010 #235
As for the first point above, there is truth in both.

Well, the cost of living in those countries is higher and the languages a huge barrier. Many went to Norway as it was somehow easier to learn and they wanted Polish dentists/doctors.

Wages are maybe lower in Germany for now as they haven't fully emerged from their mini recession. However, that's by no means a constant. The Germans can easily get themselves out of trouble.

Well, there is mixing but the reasons are many.

The reality is that you just cannot put everyone in work in a capitalist system. There will always be winners and losers that way. That was one strength of communism, full employment. There were more 'lifers' under such a system. The old 2000PLN for everyone expression ;)

I don't think anyone would deny that it is possible but having 2 kids (the so-called nuclear family) and a car is a major burden. Without kids, car and any shopping whatsover, my standard expenses are at least 2200PLN a month. All because of this skewed perception that I am rich because I have my own business. What garbage! I will wake up eventually.
Wroclaw Boy
15 Feb 2010 #236
Wroclaw Boy:
No, it was a viable alternative to living in poverty in Poland. You think 1,000,000 + just went for more cash? they went becasue they had no option..... Im getting tired of this please provide other examples of countries citizens emmigrating by the millions in order for work. You still thinking Americans in bahrain????
Uh, Italians in Germany, Greeks in Germany, Spanish in France, Turks in Germany, Canadians in the US....

What millions?? witin two years?? i rest my case. Its all in the stats im afraid thats the best thing about FACTS they are FACTS.

UK was the place to be because of higher wages.

I'll answer your points properly when i have more time. They are mostly flawed.
convex 20 | 3,978
15 Feb 2010 #237
Well, the cost of living in those countries is higher and the languages a huge barrier. Many went to Norway as it was somehow easier to learn and they wanted Polish dentists/doctors.

Path of least resistance.

Wages are maybe lower in Germany for now as they haven't fully emerged from their mini recession. However, that's by no means a constant. The Germans can easily get themselves out of trouble.

Wages in Germany for unskilled labor have always been fairly low...I don't think that'll be changing anytime soon.

The reality is that you just cannot put everyone in work in a capitalist system. There will always be winners and losers that way.

Sure you can. We have way, way too many children already. Without the infrastructure to teach them the skills they need, you have a bunch of workers that can't do anything productive, more unskilled labor.

Regarding communism, I still have no idea how the most resource rich country in the world screwed that one up. Gross mismanagement.

I don't think anyone would deny that it is possible but having 2 kids (the so-called nuclear family) and a car is a major burden. Without kids, car and any shopping whatsover, my standard expenses are at least 2200PLN a month. All because of this skewed perception that I am rich because I have my own business. What garbage! I will wake up eventually.

Yea, it's tough. But it's possible. And quite a few people do exactly that. The market is trying to disincentive having kids..higher food prices, energy prices, education costs, but we keep fighting it.

I'll get back to my epic battle with a bottle of rum.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
15 Feb 2010 #238
Most Poles will naturally choose the easier option linguistically, esp those uneducated ones who rely on the little English that they know.

Yeah but I bet that you can buy more in Germany than you could buy in Poland for doing unskilled labour.

Convex, there just aren't enough jobs for everyone. As WB said, facts are facts.

You have just given me an extra string for the bow. Poland has traditionally not charged for education but that is starting to change.

Fighting, fair enough, but I think your definition of comfortable and that of WB's are 2 very different things.
convex 20 | 3,978
15 Feb 2010 #239
What millions?? witin two years?? i rest my case. Its all in the stats im afraid thats the best thing about FACTS they are FACTS.

Yes, migration to Germany from Turkey in the 60's, and that was controlled. The UK government basically opened the floodgates, if you could work as a teacher in Kielce for 1800zl a month or work as a cook for 1800 a week, would you leave? The Greeks, Italians, and Turks also stayed in Germany over the long term, are the number of Polish immigrations to the UK still increasing year on year? Isn't it bizarre that when the pound started to fall against the zloty, people moved home?

Yeah but I bet that you can buy more in Germany than you could buy in Poland for doing unskilled labour.

Not so sure about that, remember, no minimum wage. Potatoes aren't cheap, neither is rent.

Convex, there just aren't enough jobs for everyone. As WB said, facts are facts.

There aren't enough jobs for unskilled labor. I'll give you that.

You have just given me an extra string for the bow. Poland has traditionally not charged for education but that is starting to change.

Rightfully so, let people take loans to pay for it. Don't subsidize it so that prices stay low. Of course, that will never happen :(

Fighting, fair enough, but I think your definition of comfortable and that of WB's are 2 very different things.

Likewise
Seanus 15 | 19,706
15 Feb 2010 #240
No minimum wage? Ok, let's look at that. I've heard of people earn less than 4PLN per hour here (giving out flyers). That's under 1 pound. Britain has a minimum wage of 5.15 or 5.35, sth like that (pounds). Germany wouldn't pay that low, sorry. Ask BB.

Rent is through the roof here and there is a thread on it should you care to read it. It's about most Poles not being rich enough to afford a good place with modern heating options.

There aren't enough jobs in many areas, convex. Bring back 800,000 people and that'll make it even worse. Look, think of it this way. Look around you at how many individual flats/houses there are in any given city. In Gliwice, around 210,000 people. You can't tell me that there are enough jobs for all of them. That's absurd! There are jobs for unskilled labourers here, they just aren't well paid.

Poles taking extra loans, LOL. Can't you see a credit crisis looming here if that happens? It'll create a major headache for credit enforcement authorities. Just ask Mister H about the position in the UK.


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