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Poland Targeted by Israel-Based Financial Fraud


Bieganski 17 | 901
29 May 2017 #1
Recently...

Police arrested 20 people...in conjunction with a global FBI sting against an international crime ring that has allegedly scammed tens of millions of dollars from individuals and companies over the Internet. Among the organizations targeted...were companies in Poland.

Source: timesofisrael.com/as-israel-based-financial-fraud-soars-police-swoop-on-20-suspects-as-part-of-global-fbi-led-sting/

The article continued:

Israel has become a haven for criminals..."These international fraudulent schemes involving social engineering are growing in scale and doing unprecedented damage...Israel...is perceived as a center that exports this kind of fraud,"

Well, no surprise there. Indeed, as one PF member recently put it in another thread:

Criminals exist everywhere but nations tend to 'specialise' for want of a better word in different forms of crime.

Source: polishforums.com/uk-ireland/slave-trader-sentence-increased-81337/2/#msg1596108

Yes, some countries most certainly do.

Interesting that Israel likes to talk tough about fighting terrorism (to protect itself of course) but is very weak and obviously completely reliant on America's FBI when it comes to tackling organized crime originating within its own borders. Crime always flourishes though were corruption reigns and law enforcement is most lax.

It definitely seems the case that when Poland's growing business sector is being victimized by white-collar criminals from abroad some Israeli lawmakers either have their heads planted firmly in the sand or they are deliberately looking the other way.

This would be an excellent opportunity for Israel to humbly make amends and come to the table and enter into a long overdue extradition treaty with Poland. That way Poland can prosecute these criminals who currently enjoy sanctuary in the Jewish State of Israel.
Harry
29 May 2017 #2
Does an article from pretty much months ago count as news?

Even more so when Poland was not targeted; the reality is that no nation was targeted but instead companies in five nations were the victims.
OP Bieganski 17 | 901
29 May 2017 #3
Does an article from pretty much months ago count as news?

Of course it does. It was published by a mainstream news outlet only two months ago. It's extremely recent especially when one takes into account that all your posts center around forgotten or unknown people and irrelevant events from previous centuries.

Besides, your cohort has been feverishly troll posting this week a series of articles published anywhere from several months to several years ago. I didn't see where you were questioning him about the timeliness of his posts. Hypocrite much?

In any event the thread I started is a very important issue. Politics moves very slowly especially between countries. Apart from raising awareness among Polish companies about this very real threat this recent American-lead crime swoop should also be grounds for Israel to atone and beseech Poland to finally enter into an extradition treaty most favorable to Poland.

Poland was not targeted...but instead companies

You're wrong as usual. Poland was obviously targeted because the Israeli criminals knew they would never been extradited to Poland. Poland was obviously targeted because the Polish companies suffered financial loses due to the scams. When companies lose money they face having to lay off people, delay expansions, or even cease operations. All this translate into a loss of revenue for both the Polish companies and Poland's state coffers. These Israeli based crimes against Polish companies could even lead to an expense for Poland when Poles are made unemployed through no fault of their own and need to go on benefits. So no don't bother trying to drive this thread further off topic by digressing into how tough it is to claim benefits in Poland, blah, blah, blah.

Stick to the topic or go start your own thread.
Harry
29 May 2017 #4
It really would be good if a mod could advise as to how far back "news" goes. Is a couple of months ok or not?
johnny reb 28 | 5,060
29 May 2017 #5
Stick to the topic or go start your own thread.

Your words fall on deaf ears as you can see.
Financial fraud is growing at an alarming rate.
If convicted the penalty should be death by hanging no matter how big or small the amount is.
OP Bieganski 17 | 901
29 May 2017 #6
Your words fall on deaf ears as you can see.

Very true. And everyone knows that Harry wouldn't be having another one of his "Point of Order!" hissy fits if the situation regarding Poland and Israel in this thread were reversed.

But to answer his question, news is anything that is "newly received or noteworthy information, especially about recent or important events" or "information not previously known to someone." He knows this too because he has been giving his cohorts a free pass with their outdated articles in which they base their recent anti-Polish bait and troll posts.

Financial fraud is growing at an alarming rate. If convicted the penalty should be death by hanging no matter how big or small the amount is.

Financial fraud is a very serious matter. It is very destabilizing to the free market system which Poland values and participates in. If businesses inside of Poland are regularly targeted by foreign criminal enterprises and foreign state actors like Israel which give them succor and protection then this has to be regarded as a national threat.

A nation's economy is absolutely interwoven with its national security.

Poland's military establishment recognize this and have spoken about it:

The very essence of Polish comprehensive approach to national security is articulated in the article 5 of the Constitution of the Republic of Poland. It states that...freedom and security of citizens, sustainable development of the...economic potential...may not be treated selectively, a holistic approach is needed to cater for a wide variety of national needs.

Source: warsawsecurityforum.org/polish-comprehensive-approach-towards-security

Poland's jealous tempestuous critics (like Macron, the Germans, and Polonophobes on PF) are always quick to point to Poland as being a net recipient of EU aid. They try to use this as leverage to convince Poland and her people to do things which are not in Poland's national interests including preservation of her national heritage.

This is all the more reason why Poland needs to have a strong, secure, and vibrant market place in which Polish businesses can thrive and Poles can be employed and productive and Poland can be economically independent.

Poland is a firmly established member of NATO and is meeting her spending obligations for collective defense. Therefore if Israel won't come to the table and enter into an extradition treaty with Poland then the next time they are caught sitting on their hands while their criminal gangs are defrauding Polish businesses and in turn Poland's economy then NATO should convene and invoke Article 5. It really is that serious.
Harry
29 May 2017 #7
And everyone knows that Harry wouldn't be having another one of his "Point of Order!" hissy fits

More of a point of fact, Bieggers.

But leaving aside the fact that Johnny's original post which had four quotes (and thus should draw an automatic warning, except in the case of twice banned posters, in which case it draws a ban), we are still left with the fact that your post claims that it was "Poland Targeted by Israel-Based Financial Fraud": would you like to admit you made that up and admit that in reality companies in Poland and a number of other countries were targeted or would you like to share with us some information the Times of Israel missed?
OP Bieganski 17 | 901
29 May 2017 #8
we are still left with the fact that your post claims that it was "Poland Targeted by Israel-Based Financial Fraud": would you like to admit you made that up

Nothing was made up as you are desperately and falsely claiming. You are not a moderator nor the Admin of this site either. You never will be.

I'm not surprised at all that I have to remind you that this is Polish Forums. Therefore it is completely relevant to cite only that information which is pertinent to Poland including when companies which are registered and pay tax in Poland are targeted by criminal gangs operating with virtual impunity in the Jewish State of Israel up until the FBI gets involved. If you think the Polish government (regardless of the political party in power) and Polish law enforcement and Polish citizens doing business in Poland would not be concerned about Polish companies being targeted by foreign criminal gangs in Israel then you truly are hermetically sealed off from reality.

As I expounded upon, Polish companies are vital to Poland's economy and ultimately her national security. I don't need to wait for some news article to cover every single aspect of a topic before it can get started on here.

If other countries were targeted by the same organized Israeli fraudsters then you will have to explain why that is relevant to Poland and to readers who visit Polish Forums. That's right YOU have to explain this not me.

And to back up your absurd position you can also show the forum where anyone at any time in Western history (including on this forum starting with your own posts and that of your cohorts) has only ever cited articles and other publications which themselves only covered areas exclusively to one country, or one person, or one event.

You need to face reality and realize that your off-topic driving and totalitarian censorship tactics won't work here.
Harry
30 May 2017 #9
Nothing was made up

Please Biegers, at least try to tell the truth. Your claim "Poland Targeted by Israel-Based Financial Fraud" is a complete work of fiction. Poland was not targeted at all. Companies which operate in Poland and several other countries were targeted. I know that it must be difficult for you to understand this, especially as you have never even crossed the Atlantic, let alone been to Poland, but companies which operate in Poland are not the same as Poland. The article you link to doesn't even mention if those companies which operate in Poland are even partly owned by Polish people, they could easily be Israeli or American owned companies which operate in Poland.

If all you can do is come here and lie about Jews, you really should think about getting some hobbies. But thanks for putting your lies so early on in your posts (for example the one about Poland being targeted and the one about you having not made anything up), if you hid your lies more than a couple of sentences into your posts nobody would ever notice them!
idem - | 135
30 May 2017 #10
Without being personal about nationalities ( Polish-Jewish) if there is no extradition treaty between these 2 countries it means that criminals who have stolen money from companies - irrelevant if Polish ones or located in Poland - can safely hide in Israel and enjoy this money.....
OP Bieganski 17 | 901
30 May 2017 #11
but companies which operate in Poland are not the same as Poland.

OMG! LOL!

Well, you obviously never heard of Poland's efforts for decades now to grow and attract businesses both domestically and internationally and expand market share for exports, create more jobs for Poles in Poland, and increase tax revenue. You obviously never dealt with any legitimate companies regardless of ownership operating in Poland where compliance with Polish regulations and registering for tax purposes is standard.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we know, you are an old Soviet at heart and the only nationalism you will accept is state ownership of companies. But if you think Poland has no role and no concern about what goes on in the market place then once again (despite your very advanced age) you demonstrate your complete lack of knowledge and utter lack of experience in life.

The article you link to doesn't even mention if those companies which operate in Poland are even partly owned by Polish people

Oh, then answer each of the following and back it up with official and independent references:

If a Polish owned company operating in Poland is victimized by Israeli fraudsters where do the owners go to file a criminal complaint? Who has jurisdiction and why?

If an Israeli owned company operating in Poland is victimized by Israeli fraudsters where do the owners go to file a criminal complaint? Who has jurisdiction and why?

If an American owned company operating in Poland is victimized by Israeli fraudsters where do the owners go to file a criminal complaint? Who has jurisdiction and why?

criminals who have stolen money from companies - irrelevant if Polish ones or located in Poland - can safely hide in Israel and enjoy this money.....

Exactly. And Harry is absolutely fine with that but not when anyone talks about it.
Harry
31 May 2017 #12
if there is no extradition treaty between these 2 countries it means that criminals who have stolen money from companies - irrelevant if Polish ones or located in Poland

The fact that the criminals have been arrested in Israel shows you that your statement is lacking a certain amount of accuracy.

You obviously never dealt with any legitimate companies regardless of ownership operating in Poland where compliance with Polish regulations and registering for tax purposes is standard.

As it happens, I've worked for more than a few WSE-listed companies, working directly with senior staff up to CEO level. I also write a monthly report on compliance and wider corporate governance and co-write a monthly report about tax. You, on the other hand are asking such basic questions that you know nothing about the topics. Your ignorance reminds me of one of your fellow Americans who thought he could make racist threats against a Polish citizen: Polish police contacted US police that child now has a restraining order limiting his internet access to study-related purposes only, which means he hasn't posted at PF for quite some time.

OMG! LOL!

We certainly are laughing, Biegers, but we're laughing at you, not with you.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,635
31 May 2017 #13
Israel is most likely where they just kept the money and/or laundered it... The reason why Israel has an issue with fraud, cybercrime, money laundering, etc is because Israel has an extremely pro business pro entrepreneur environment and there is a sort of tradition of secrecy or at least 'don't be rude and don't ask' kind of like say Hong kong, panama, etc.

Also poland isnt going to do anything beyond its borders. Some companies might update software and patch bugs and call it a day till they get hacked again. Israel on the other hand isn't too keen on hosting people that are flat out defrauding people... Except us taxpayers of course when it comes to military aid and security (I.e. sale of war planes for scrap prices by dov zakheim - same guy who made a reported $2 trilllion, yes trillion as in 2,000 billion vanish while being the pentagon comptroller... Israel receives more us aid than any other country and more than the entire continent of Africa combined. The figure ranges from $3 bil to $10 bil a year depending what you consider as aid. This is a ton of money for a tiny country with some 8 million people.. Why not divert even just $1 bil of that towards stabilizing places like libya, central African republic, drc, syria, etc.?

Anyway....

This isn't rly a big deal this happens everyday between two corners of the world. Just happens to be poland and Israel at the moment.

Bieganski while I would love to see more businesses inside poland owned and operated by polish people, the truth is in general the wages and environment at many polish corportations are typically not up to the standard of their western counterparts. In general of course... Any polish company I've ever discussed employment opportunities with the pay and benefits tended to be rather significantly less than the british, german, us, etc companies. Actually it seems that the Scandinavian companies actually offered me the best wages. This is just my own experience and of course others may have had the opposite experience.

Nonetheless yes Israel does protect certain criminals. Not in this case though - looks like Israel arrested them. One often doesn't correlate Israel with an advanced IT industry but I can tell you from working at an Israeli company and being at various it conferences and trade shows, Israel is at the forefront of technology of all sorts - drones, IoT, security software, modules, etc. Anyway, some of the old school Russian and UkrainianJews (and those who pretended to be) who either left in the 70s and those who remained but made it big after the dissolution of the ussr get some protection from Israel or at least are permitted to store their money in Israeli banks and invest within the country. Basically, your oligarchs and those around them. I remember one particular Russian Jew giving $100 mil to the local Jerusalem fc in a bid to become the city's mayor (he only got like 3 or 4% of the votes nonetheless). Also, every so often you'll get the yeshiva rabbi who was molesting children (few big cases in us and australia) where they quietly move and restart a new life in israel after copping a plea in the us and moving after their bid is over. I remember one particular group of orthodox were buying and selling organs - kidneys, livers, etc throughout ny and nj and apparently this small group of half a dozen or so guys were grossing $10 mil a year. Most received probation and the longest sentence handed was only 4 years. One of them was recorded shelling out $40k to get his secretary a transplant which I found rather nice. Apparently this was rather embarrassing for ny and nj as some politicians were implicated in this scandal.

However, just like any other country Israel will impose a custodial sentence (just like they did to Tarzan feinburg when he screwed up - the guy who earlier was caught selling military submarines to Juan almeada - a cocaine trafficker... His strip club in Florida is still open) if they start $hitting where they eat... Same with the pink panthers.. Did they steal rob or kill in Croatia or Serbia or Kosovo? Nope but they did spend their money there so the local authorities didn't care much. Now if you start causing trouble locally or do things that cause problems for local authorities...
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,635
31 May 2017 #14
@Harry

Did that person threaten violence or simply just make racist statements? I've never heard of such an incident where police and courts in two separate countries would go to such lengths over a poster on a forum especially if there was no stalking, assault, murder, or more serious crimes. In the us making racist statements isn't a crime but threatening someone can be although in most cases the police usually just tell the person to stop and will only do something if it continues.
Harry
31 May 2017 #15
Did that person threaten violence

Yes. Which is a crime in Poland and in the USA. Just as fraud is a crime in Poland and in Israel.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,635
31 May 2017 #16
Yeah you definitely can't do that but as far as a us court flat restricting someone's internet use I don't know about that... Although it is a crime it usually on the very bottom of a police or courts priorities especially if no one has been injured... Unless the person lived in some rural town where the cops didn't like him and wanted to kill some boredom.. Oftentimes police and courts are restricted in what they can do even a restraining order toll something happens. There's an ongoing debate in the us whether registered sex offenders should have their internet restricted or not. Could it perhaps be a condition of a restraining order which typically states that the person isn't supposed to contact someone? If a court can't restrict some convicted child molestors internet there not going to restrict some trolls. Even then usually restraining orders are issued only after a number of incidents rather than just the threat of violence. I've never heard of a situation where a person s internet is restricted because they threatened someone online especially if they didn't go through with it. Quite frankly I'm surprised it even took the course of police in two different countries and later a court case to issue a restraining warrant which typically requires the petitioner to be present. Typically such crimes if there was only a threat but no action don't result in anything past an investigstion and a warning from a detective on the perps cell phone to stop or they will be arrested. The person could claim they forgot to log out and someone else used the computer to write a message. There's no way to really prove that a specific person wrote a specific threat online way too circumstantial. They could find the ip it came from but that's about it.
OP Bieganski 17 | 901
31 May 2017 #17
The fact that the criminals have been arrested in Israel shows you that your statement is lacking a certain amount of accuracy.

It was America's FBI which led the sting. Israel's sugar daddy was angry so they had to act which is quite an improvement in their relationship given Israelis are usually condescending, backbiting, and ungrateful towards Americans.

In any case why didn't law enforcement in your precious, precious Israel know what was going on and act sooner? Oh, that's right, it's because like the Times of Israel stated in the article, Israel is a haven for criminals. And as I stated previously crime flourishes where corruption reigns and law enforcement is lax.

I've worked for more than a few WSE-listed companies, working directly with senior staff up to CEO level.

Sure you did. Cleaning crews can make this claim too. It's very common in any country with immigrants like yourself who are effectively illiterate in the national language (even in your profile you admit: "Speaks Polish? Not very well. My passive Polish is far better than my active Polish") end up in low wage menial jobs like dumping bins and vacuuming floors in corporate suites of stockmarket-listed companies. I'm sure you would bump into quite a few CEOs as you are waltzing with a mop in the toilets and working directly with senior staff by holding doors open for them as they head into meeting rooms you just got done cleaning.

But given your temperament and notoriety on here I don't think you can hold down even these types of low skill jobs let alone do high level consultancy work in Poland where you can't even communicate in the Polish apart from ordering a beer and a hamburger.

I also write a monthly report on compliance and wider corporate governance and co-write a monthly report about tax.

Sure you do. Let's see a copy then (unredacted of course). And then explain where you find the time to write these so-called monthly reports given that most of your unsuspended days are spent baiting and trolling on here and while (as your one cohort claimed not long ago that) you own and manage a bicycle shop?

Source: https://polanda.com/off-topic/discuss-muslims-jews-buddhist-christians-77767/19/#msg1584326

Anyway, it's very telling that while you boast about doing consultancy work with numerous top Polish business leaders and also write reports on corporate matters you completely and decidedly avoided answering a single question I asked you about where any businesses operating in Poland (regardless of ownership) would go when they are victimized by Israeli fraudsters and need to file a criminal complaint?
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,635
2 Jun 2017 #18
In the us such matters are settled by the ftc (federal trade commission) sec (securities exchange commission) and fbi if there's suspected federal crimes like mail or wire fraud. In poland its probably the same organisations just with different polish names.

Financial crime in Israel flourishes because of a sort of don't ask don't tell environment. Also, the israeli government knows who's doing what.. Believe me these guys have tech that's a decade ahead of the U.S. I use to work for an Israeli IoT company. Israel is at the forefront of r and r research and has some of the most intelligent programers, coders, network admins, etc.

Also, if itd a few hundred thousand ornanfew million Israel will most likely go after them. Now if there's say an extra $129 mil in an Israeli bank, well then instead of sending investigators they may send a political operative to solicit a campaign donation.. Or even may just want a bribe to look the other way.

Each country is unique but the bank secrecy laws and easy of doing business in Israel is pretty similar to places like switzerland, Cayman islands, panama, Hong kong, macau, wherever. Only difference is the sugar baby/sugar daddy relationship that Israel has with the us. Also israels clout reaches far and wide for such a small country due to the many jews who obviously feel a high sense of patriotism towards Israel.

Also from my experience tax reports are done quarterly in the us when the company has to release their EBIT and updated balance sheets to shareholders. My dad does his corporate taxes like once a year but he's a rather small operation and isn't publicly traded. Nonetheless a monthly tax report would seem a bit redundant but depending on the company, their product or service, it could be vital and important. Im going just based on my experience which is of coursendifferent from others. Sales reports are typically done monthly or even quarterly or as late as semi annual/annual depending on the type of product and its relevant sales cycle. A case of coke that will most likely be sold to a gas station has a far shorter sales cycle than software which will assist a company on implementing the next generation of some technology or a new MRI machine.


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