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Poland is the source of horsemeat in burgers?


Barney 14 | 1,469
8 Feb 2013 #91
Horse meat sold as beef is just the tip of the iceberg, if they can pull this stunt for god knows how long what the hell else have we been eating. The mind boggles.

I've ruminated on this for a bit and have come to the conclusion that as soon as you put a human in charge of anything they will let you down.
Wroclaw Boy
8 Feb 2013 #92
its not humans barney its money, horse wouldn't be in the meat if it wasnt making somebody extra cash somewhere along the line. Every time its profit before all else, even if it means killing people in the process.

The examples are everywhere, absolutely everywhere.
jon357 63 | 14,255
8 Feb 2013 #93
I've ruminated on this

I thought that was cows not horses.

for a bit

Champing at the bit?
OP peterweg 36 | 2,316
8 Feb 2013 #94
.

Given that Dr. Creutzfelt died in 1964 and Dr. Jakob died in 1931, I wonder if you think they discovered it using an ouija board?

Variant CJD was not discovered by them and is not the same disease and has different causes, prognosis and result. If you had the slightest understanding of the issue you would know this - because vCJD was the reason for the 10 year ban not CJD.

So, we have discovered you have no idea what BSE is or the disease that it causes but you think, against the advice and evidence of every medical, scientific and government authority in the world that eating BSE infected meat is 'safe'.

Ok.

As I say, check out the concept of Supply Chain within the food industry.

More vague waffle. Provide some facts to prove your accusation.
jon357 63 | 14,255
9 Feb 2013 #95
CJD

Discoverd by and named after them in 1960.

So, we have discovered you have no idea what BSE i

rather better than you, it seems.

Strange you think that Supply Chain management is 'vague waffle' - I suppose we've come to expect such nonsense from you. The oddest thing is that you've failed to spot the obvious. The horsemeat issue was discovered and exposed through the correct channels.

As I seay, with the beef issue, it was entirely transparent. Well publicised, fully investigated. No cover-ups. Important that the same happens here.
OP peterweg 36 | 2,316
9 Feb 2013 #96
peterweg:
CJD

Discoverd by and named after them in 1960.

vCJD is not the same a CJD

Its a different disease.

Its not the SAME.

CJD is irrelevant as it is not caused by BSE and is significantly different.

vCJD was discovered in the 1990's and was named as such because of the similar effects it has on the brain.

Do you understand?

Supply Chain management is 'vague waffle

The waffle is your claim that super efficient processes immediately pinned down the source of the meat. It hasn't. There is no 'supply chain management'.

There is no traceability.
Nobody has any idea where the meat came from or where it went.
The procedures that were put in because of BSE are very evidently not working. This is the scandal.

As I seay, with the beef issue, it was entirely transparent. Well publicised, fully investigated. No cover-ups.

Over a decade of insisting BSE was no threat to human health, refusing to act when the prion jumped from Sheep, to cattle to cats (for years) until dead humans could be sliced up.

BSE disaster was a good example of open and transparent handling of a food scare?? Amazing claim, utter rubbish.

Important that the same happens here

I agree, but if they did this after BSE scare (and the other scandals such as selling condemned chicken etc) they will do the same again in future. The only answer is to avoid process meat product for the rest of your life.

The supposed 'quality' and branding of food is undermined when you discover Findus buy anonymous lasagna from foreign factories with no quality control whatsoever, and the supermarkets are doing the same thing.

This French company quite obviously has been buying horse meat deliberately, the difference to beef must have been obvious.
guardian.co.uk/business/2013/feb/09/aldi-100-percent-horsemeat-beef-products
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
9 Feb 2013 #97
Any news on English horse meat ?
OP peterweg 36 | 2,316
9 Feb 2013 #98
Yes, doesn't seem to be involved,

The French have shipping 100% horsemeat all around Europe for at least 6 months, the is claim its from Romania now.

Comigel make at least 60,000 tonnes per year of frozen Lasagna etc. and ship it to 15 countries.

Authorities have been ­concerned for some time about the scale of the trade in horses - transporting horses of low value seems to make no economic sense unless other criminal activity is involved.

The food industry likes to boast it has full traceability of its food chain, but what the current crisis demonstrates beyond contention is that they have lost control. The system is only as safe as the paper on which it is written, and as honest as its most entrepreneurial rogues.

But by the end of the weeka picture of full-scale food fraud was emerging. Horsemeat turns out to have adulterated not just the cheap beefburgers that kicked off the food crisis in Ireland and the UK nearly a month ago, but also big-brand ready meals of beef lasagne. Supermarkets withdrew spaghetti bolognese and meatballs made in the same factories for fear of what they may find.

guardian.co.uk/business/2013/feb/08/horsemeat-scandal-more-to-come
jon357 63 | 14,255
9 Feb 2013 #99
CJD

Was discovered decades ago - however you try to spin it.

There is no 'supply chain management'.
There is no traceability.

I doubt the supermarkets in question would agree with you. Especially since they traced it.

BSE disaster was a good example of open and transparent handling of a food scare

Very. If there was a cover-up, how would we know so much about it.

The supposed 'quality' and branding of food is undermined when you discover Findus buy anonymous lasagna from foreign factories with no quality control whatsoever, and the supermarkets are doing the same thing.

Hardly anonymous, and as you'll know (though not neccessarily understand) if you read the newspapers, it has been discovered.

Any news on English horse meat ?

So far, the only horsemeat that has been positively tracked down was Polish. The Romania aspect is interesting and needs investigation, troll.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,671
9 Feb 2013 #100
Yes, doesn't seem to be involved,

it will be on some level though, I go to a monthly horse sales here in UK where horsemeat dealers are in evidence, they probably transport to France.
jon357 63 | 14,255
9 Feb 2013 #101
Usually only the best goes to France. the rest goes for petfood.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
9 Feb 2013 #102
So far, the only horsemeat that has been positively tracked down was Polish.

Prove it.
OP peterweg 36 | 2,316
9 Feb 2013 #103
I doubt the supermarkets in question would agree with you. Especially since they traced it.

They didn't trace anything. DNA test came back positive for horsemeat. Its now very apparent that they CANNOT trace it.

it will be on some level though, I go to a monthly horse sales here in UK where horsemeat dealers are in evidence, they probably transport to France.

Funny that, no economic value in horse meat. Which is why the focus is shifting to this trade.

So far, the only horsemeat that has been positively tracked down was Polish.

In fact, Poland is the only place where Horsemeat has NOT been found marked as beef.

Hardly anonymous, and as you'll know (though not neccessarily understand) if you read the newspapers, it has been discovered.

Try reading the newspaper article you are responding to rather that making up your own self serving story line.

Very. If there was a cover-up, how would we know so much about it.

They refused to ban beef for six years after the evidence was clear that it was a health risk. Lying to the public to protect the beef industry, yeah I suppose its not a coverup.
jasondmzk
9 Feb 2013 #104
This sort of thing happens occasionally. Is it really a story about lax or sub-standard requirements at Polish meat-processing facilities, or is it perhaps more of a local story about ONE shoddy distributor, "spruced up" to cast the Poles in a poor light? I remember sitting in the archives at my job in a Savannah Georgia library, wasting time by reading old bound health inspectors filings. Once, there was a Chinese Restaurant whose operating license was suspended for using cat meat. I always thought the old "cat meat" trope about Chinese places was just an urban myth. Apparently not, but it also didn't convince me that the one case, though egregious, was symptomatic of any larger problem.
Ironside 48 | 9,905
9 Feb 2013 #105
So far, the only horsemeat that has been positively tracked down was Polish

Well, well I'm learning everyday something new. Today I have learned that horse-meat has nationality.::D

Problem is processed food industry and they shoddy dealing and generally a race after profit and disregard for human health and well-being.People are seen as customers not individuals. I would laid the blame on the doorsteps of the western civilization and her business practices and social attitudes. Talking about Polish horse-meat is like talking about Polish swan eaters an urban myth or rather one convenient scapegoat.
jon357 63 | 14,255
9 Feb 2013 #106
Well, well I'm learning everyday something new. Today I have learned that horse-meat has nationality.::D

It does indeed. the horse was called Wojciech.

It's all about expectations. People (many people, anyway) expect ready made food cheaply and in quantity. Something has to give.

They didn't trace anything. DNA test came back positive for horsemeat.

And they traced horsemeat from the supply chain.

In fact, Poland is the only place where Horsemeat has NOT been found marked as beef.

Because either a. it was only exported or more likely b. there is less far transparency in public life, a weaker media andno legal obligation to disclose the information.

Try reading the newspaper article you are responding to rather that making up your own self serving story line.

An amusing statement, from one who tried everything else and failed.

They refused to ban beef for six years after the evidence was clear that it was a health risk. Lying to the public to protect the beef industry, yeah I suppose its not a coverup.

It was available in the shops even after it was banned from institutional catering - and yes, the very fact that we have so much information at our fingertips on the matter shows that it is not covered up.
Ironside 48 | 9,905
9 Feb 2013 #107
It does indeed. the horse was called Wojciech.

Did you know him personally?
jon357 63 | 14,255
9 Feb 2013 #108
Only from your facebook page.
monia 3 | 212
9 Feb 2013 #110
Is it really a story about lax or sub-standard requirements at Polish meat-processing facilities

Where did you find out about it ?
Instead of digging into Polish , better start checking American substandard requirements and food frauds , as an American you are directly affected by such not us .
jasondmzk
9 Feb 2013 #111
Instead of digging into Polish , better start checking American substandard requirements and food frauds , as an American you are directly affected by such not us .

Hey, I said this had nothing to do with Poland, it had to do with a specific processor or distributor. You know why I didn't respond in Polish? Because I don't know the language well enough to be sure I'm not easily confused and needlessly aggravated. Perhaps you should do the same.
irishguy11 6 | 157
9 Feb 2013 #112
the latest is that a french company has being supplying frozen meals in the uk and Ireland with 100 % horse meat, even worse, is it contains traces of drugs that are harmfull to people. Expect a lot more of this to come out in the following months.

thejournal.ie/horsemeat-contamination-likely-not-accidental-findus-uk-789450-Feb2013

Update
breakingnews.ie/ireland/romania-announces-horse-meat-inquiry-584229.html
citizen67 6 | 191
9 Feb 2013 #113
It is all lies!!!! It is a Dirty Trick by Churchill!!!!!!!!!!!
OP peterweg 36 | 2,316
9 Feb 2013 #114
You know why I didn't respond in Polish?

She isn't asking you to speak polish, its just a misinterpretation between yourselves. she's asking you to not slag off Poland (even though you aren't, but she doesn't understand)

Welcome back Jason, I missed your unique and interesting perspective...
jasondmzk
10 Feb 2013 #115
she's asking you to not slag off Poland (even though you aren't

Yeah, I just wanted to make sure I snuffed out any suggestion that I was anti-Poland as quickly as possible, because that kinda thing can be hard to shake, here.

Welcome back Jason

Thank you, sir!
monia 3 | 212
10 Feb 2013 #116
even though you aren't, but she doesn't understand)

Thank you Peter for explaining , but my intention was pointing out to Jason that Polish meat production facilities have got strict procedures and our food is safe . It is very rare that we can hear about meat scandals and our food is healthy ( so far ) . He ( Jason ) directly and openly without any subtleties says that Polish meat production facilities have substandard requirements . I think he knows nothing about them but still he is debating about something wrong with Polish procedures . It all seems that we deal with international food fraud where Poland is just a country pasively mixed up in a fraud and our role is none , at least so far the investigation says that .
jasondmzk
10 Feb 2013 #117
He ( Jason ) directly and openly without any subtleties says that Polish meat production facilities have substandard requirements

Oh, if only there were some record of what I actually said...

Is it really a story about lax or sub-standard requirements at Polish meat-processing facilities, or is it perhaps more of a local story about ONE shoddy distributor, "spruced up" to cast the Poles in a poor light?

Huh! How bout that? I never accused them at all. I asked if we were asking the right questions for the right reasons. I was defending Poland, and you were so rabid in your knee-jerk protectiveness that it went right past you. And don't tell me "that Polish meat production facilities have got strict procedures and our food is safe". You don't know what happens at each and every meat-packing plant every day of the weak. Even huge corporations in the U.S. like Tyson Foods mess up from time to time. But again, that was not the point I was making. The point I've made three times, now.
OP peterweg 36 | 2,316
10 Feb 2013 #118
meat production facilities have got strict procedures and our food is safe .

And you know this how? The UK is supposed to have very strict food regulations, as is the rest of the EU and, once again, greed has overcome it. Pass the salt, not road salt please...?

I suspect the horsemeat trade had been going for a decade and nobody noticed, because its very easy to pass off any old **** as long as its mashed up enough.

Maggots, flies, cockroaches,rotten meat, dog, cat, horse, excrement. If you can't identify the meat as meat then you will have eaten this posing as meat.

It been going on for centuries and if the BSE scandal couldn't stop it nothing will. If you don't want to eat adulterated crap, eat clearly identifiable meat or fish.

As usually the finger pointing to suppliers goes on. But the responsibility lies with the retailer who fed the consumer, thats the fraud. If retailers don't like it they should have keep their promises of quality and traceability.
jon357 63 | 14,255
10 Feb 2013 #119
Maggots, flies, cockroaches,rotten meat, dog, cat, horse, excrement. If you can't identify the meat as meat then you will have eaten this posing as meat.

You do anyway - you'd be surprised what gets into the food chain.

the responsibility lies with the retailer who fed the consumer,

Ultimately the responsibility is with the state to insist on controls.

Polish meat production facilities have got strict procedures and our food is safe

Hahahahaha. Do you remember the scandal in Konstancin Jeziorna, where dead cats and dogs from the dog pound were going into processed food?

Believe me - UK controls are not perfect, but at least they happen and at least they can't be bypassed by a bribe to an official.
OP peterweg 36 | 2,316
10 Feb 2013 #120
least they can't be bypassed by a bribe to an official.

A nod a wink is good enough in the UK, apparently. However, bribery to meat inspectors has happened in the past.


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