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What should Poland do to solve the population crisis?


Sebastian 6 | 108    
7 May 2012  #1
Poland is starting to depopulate, and many estimate that by 2050, the population could go from 38 million to 30-31 million. What exactly can the Polish government do to fix this? I don't think its a wealth issue, because many rich countries like Germany, Austria, Italy, Switzerland, etc, are very wealthy, but are still experiencing population decline. Poland will have too many old people, and this will put a strain on the government, and there won't be enough young people to support stable economic growth. What can Poland do?
natasia 3 | 368    
7 May 2012  #2
Come up with a specific incentive package to encourage some of the young ones to come back ... but then again, there isn't enough cash in Poland to look after the sick and old, so cash to bring back the young is non-existent. Better to rely on the hard cash the young send back, to look after their own sick and elderly. Isn't that the system?
peterweg 36 | 2,315    
7 May 2012  #3
Poland is starting to depopulate,

No it isn't. there was a migration at EU ascention and its stopped now.

I and friends, family doing their bit..
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769    
7 May 2012  #4
30 million for the size of Poland would actually be AWESOME- less traffic, less rubbish, fewer govnerment workers. The transition period from 38M down to 30M could be lethal though.
milky 13 | 1,657    
7 May 2012  #5
No it isn't.

Yes it is and this has been discussed on other threads.
The east of Poland will continue to depopulate rapidly until minimum wage at least doubles or the price of rent,houses and fuel drop by at least half.

My view is that things will continue as they are and Poland will face a massive crises in the future; the main political parties are too busy distracting the masses with irrelevant moral issues, when the problems are truly economic. Poland can't even enforce the rules of the road, never mind standing up to the onslaught of the free-market pirates, and the neo-liberal establishment.
jon357 64 | 14,382    
7 May 2012  #6
The world's population is increasing to unsustainable levels - that is the true crisis, not minor fluctuations in Poland.
peterweg 36 | 2,315    
7 May 2012  #7
Poland can't even enforce the rules of the road, never mind standing up to the onslaught of the free-market pirates, and the neo-liberal establishment.

Provide some proof of your ridiculous statements and theories.
TheOther 5 | 3,683    
7 May 2012  #8
No it isn't. there was a migration at EU ascention and its stopped now.

That's what **you** say... :)

Just a few examples which claim exactly the opposite:

guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/may/26/net-migration-uk-immigration

"Net migration to Britain has risen to its highest level for five years, fuelled by a sharp fall in the number of people going to live abroad and a resurgence in Polish migrants coming to live in the UK."

guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/25/uk-migration-rise-poland-eurozone

"The government's cap on migration to Britain from outside Europe is being more than offset by a renewed rise in migration from Poland and other EU countries, immigration experts have warned."

cnbc.com/id/45984816/Eastern_European_Migration_Boosts_Germany_s_Population

"The main driver of this positive immigration trend is the increase from countries who joined the Europe Union in 2004, especially Poland," the office said.
OP Sebastian 6 | 108    
8 May 2012  #9
30 million for the size of Poland would actually be AWESOME- less traffic, less rubbish, fewer govnerment workers.

No it wouldn't lol. If Poland was a country of 30 million, and a 30 million, which consisted of many young people, and not too many old people, that would be great! But the problem is if it goes to 30 million, there will be too many old poor people, and not enough young people. If Poland wants to maintain strong GDP growth, they need a good healthy amount of young working people. Otherwise, there won't be enough people in the workforce to maintain growth. Plus, Poland won't be considered a big country anymore.
peterweg 36 | 2,315    
8 May 2012  #10
That's what **you** say... :)

Here we go with another "I can't do basic maths", "I don't read my own links, never mind understand them" thread

From your link

ONS statisticians said this was mainly due to an increase to 43,000 in net migration from Poland and other "A8" eastern European countries who joined the European Union seven years ago. The previous year had seen 12,000 more Poles and others going home than coming to work in the UK

So there has been a net migration to the UK of 31k over two years. To reduce Polands population by 8 million it would take 500 years

There is no evidence that this is a trend that will continue, even at this low rate, and the 12k reduction in the previous years could be the trend - reversing Polands population fall.
TheOther 5 | 3,683    
8 May 2012  #11
I don't read my own links

You also fail to remember your own posts... :)

Here we go with another "I can't do basic maths", "I don't read my own links, never mind understand them" thread

YOU were the one who was claiming that the emigration from Poland has stopped. I simply proved that you are wrong. Simple as that, no math needed. Besides: I could provide plenty of sources from other countries which are essentially saying the same thing: the number of people leaving Poland increases. Like it or not.
peterweg 36 | 2,315    
8 May 2012  #12
the number of people leaving increases.

100k per year were arriving after ascension, if 31k over 2 years arrive, how is that an increase?

Do you think 100k is less than 31k???? last year the numbers fell into the negative.

Do you actually understand how to add up?

The increase has stopped

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Polish-born_people_in_employment_in_the_UK_2003-2010_-_chart_2369a_at_statistics_gov_uk.gif

The detailed figures based on the International Passenger Survey show 310,000 people left Britain to live abroad in the 12 months to September

UK population decimated..
TheOther 5 | 3,683    
8 May 2012  #13
how is that an increase?

Is the UK the only country in the world?

Let me help you:

ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migration1/migration-statistics-quarterly-report/august-2011/polish-people-in-the-uk.html

Increase or decrease?

Once again (and for the last time now): according to you, the emigration from Poland has stopped. Did it really stop? No. Quod erat demonstrandum.
peterweg 36 | 2,315    
8 May 2012  #14
Did it really stop? No

Yes, it has. Stopped since 2008 (fell in 2010)

gcse.com/maths/graphs.htm
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769    
8 May 2012  #15
@Sebastian
Wait wait wait, hold on. Look at what you wrote "If Poland was a country of 30 million, and a 30 million, which consisted of many young people, and not too many old people, that would be great!"

Ok then, we agree that would great and awesome.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,467    
9 May 2012  #16
Poland should introduce a true pro-family policy:
--no income tax for any family with at least three children
--no income tax for any fmaily with 4 or more children and a hefty child-reading allowance for the 4th and further children;
-- 'bykowe' tax on those (singles or marrieds) who have no children
... plus an active but closely montiored and controlled pro-immigration policy:
--incentives to immirgate for individuals with needed skills esp. from the Slavic east who fulfil the cultural-linguistic requrements (this might help keep out the undesirable third-worlders, Muslim fanactics, etc.); who have been the bane of Western Europe. The immirgation policy would be regularly adjusted in line with current manpower needs;
jon357 64 | 14,382    
9 May 2012  #17
--no income tax for any family with at least three children

So a very rich family with 3 kids would pay no tax but a poor family with only 2 who can't conceive a third would pay tax?

--no income tax for any fmaily with 4 or more children and a hefty child-reading allowance for the 4th and further children;

France has given tax concessions to larger families for years and it has had no effect.

-- 'bykowe' tax on those (singles or marrieds) who have no children

Wow - an infertility tax!

plus an active but closely montiored and controlled pro-immigration policy

We have this already.

sp. from the Slavic east who fulfil the cultural-linguistic requrements (this might help keep out the undesirable third-worlders

That is pure racism.

The immirgation policy would be regularly adjusted in line with current manpower needs;

We have this already.Have you ever thought of moving to China?
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,467    
9 May 2012  #18
France has one of Europe's highest birth rates thanks to its pro-family policy that actually works.
I have only presented a rough outline which would have to be elaborated to inlcude exceptions and modificatons. Those medically proven to be infertile would obviously not be taxed. Not too many wealthy people have 3 or 4 kids, but some income ceiling could be devised to prevent the very rich from getting off scot-free.

Racism-shmacism...there is no excuse for rampaging, rioting, fire-bombing third world scum in France and anywhere else. If you can't behave you get sent back to where you came from. Even better (less costly and complicated) is to prevent the entry of undesriables as far as possible altogether. Polish IQ and language tests would weed out the potentailly unproimising element. But if a Chinaman or Kazakhi passed with flying colours then nothinnshould stop him becoming welcomed with SERDECZNIE WITAMY W RP!
jon357 64 | 14,382    
9 May 2012  #19
France has one of Europe's highest birth rates thanks to its pro-family policy that actually works.

It's actually the 137th in the world (out of 195 countries)

Racism-shmacism...there is no excuse for rampaging, rioting, fire-bombing third world scum in France and anywhere else.

I tend to avoid using the word 'scum' to define whole ethnic groups - but I wonder if you realise which sectors of French society have the highest birth-rates and which have the lowest?

Polish IQ and language tests

I'm not sure what you mean by a 'Polish IQ' test.

Anyway, the world's birth rate is far too high - we are heading for a crisis.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,467    
9 May 2012  #20
Knowledge of Polish history, culture, tradition, constitution and folkways. Fluency in Polish is plain enough, innnit?
PlasticPole 7 | 2,662    
9 May 2012  #21
Polish government does not need to fix anything. It's a myth that populations must always grow or something isn't right. Populations should remain steady for many years, which they will do across the world in twenty or thirty years. Fifty max. This will be sustainable in the future without these baby boomer induced crises occurring like they do now. The last thing the world needs is another baby boom. The generations after will suffer like we are now, trying to figure out how to take care of all the oldsters.
jon357 64 | 14,382    
9 May 2012  #22
That isn't an IQ test however it makes excellent demographic sense to encourage immigration by highly intelligent people from around the world and emigration by the slackers.
modafinil - | 420    
9 May 2012  #23
Some might say they got half of that right.

Anyway, the world's birth rate is far too high - we are heading for a crisis.

Really that the world's resources are being wasted and used inefficiently by some countries. Some fatties already eating three times the food (and so needing three times more farmland) they really need and arn't willing to walk or cycle to their local McDonalds.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,860    
9 May 2012  #24
So there has been a net migration to the UK of 31k over two years

One place, pal. Poles only emigrate to the UK, do they?

I wonder if you realise which sectors of French society have the highest birth-rates and which have the lowest?

The non whites, the highest, the indigenous people, the lowest.

This is why France will eventually cease to be French.

highly intelligent people

A lot of east asians, a handful of arabs and africans. Sounds cool.

The last thing the world needs is another baby boom.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but there are more people alive today than have ever died.
modafinil - | 420    
9 May 2012  #25
A lot of east asians, a handful of arabs and africans. Sounds cool.

I suspect that was the EU plan. The west can get its dish washers from poorer European countries while cherry picking high skilled workers globally.

As long as Poland is poorer than the west they can only breed employees for the west. Make the poorer countries richer and the people won't need to leave.
peterweg 36 | 2,315    
9 May 2012  #26
One place, pal. Poles only emigrate to the UK, do they?

I didn't choose the dataset.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,662    
9 May 2012  #27
Well, I hate to break it to you, but there are more people alive today than have ever died.

There is a way to stabilize the world's population through planned parenting. It would help so many people. It would mean less starvation and poverty throughout the world while averting crises like the one facing baby boomers. Governments around the world should make it top priority.
jon357 64 | 14,382    
9 May 2012  #28
Well, I hate to break it to you, but there are more people alive today than have ever died.

I used to think that was true until I found out it was a myth - mathematically Homo Sapiens passed that point centuries ago.
peterweg 36 | 2,315    
9 May 2012  #29
its seven ghosts for each of us isn't it?
jon357 64 | 14,382    
9 May 2012  #30
I think so - there was something in the media about it a while ago. Though nevertheless, the only real population crisis is that the world's population is growing at a shocking rate. In Europe it's fairly stable - but people in countries where a son means income will take a bit of convincing.

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