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Poland now soft-pedalling ACTA signing


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
22 Jan 2012  #1
Poland was planning to signg the ACTA anti-piracy pact later this week, but on Sunday morning hackers blocked the websites of Pres. Komorowski, Parliament, PMTusk and the Culture Ministry apparently in protetst. It would seem that preventing intellectual property theft, copyright violations and the flood of fake goods on the market should have universal support, but the Wikieaks-type creeps, free dowloaders and assorted plagiarists are screaming 'freedom of speech', bla-bla-bla. Anyway govt spox Graś later said this is still being discussed and no final deicson had been taken. Last week it seemed a foregone conclusion. Will Tusk back down and let the pirates have free rein again?
EM_Wave 9 | 311
22 Jan 2012  #2
If I ever get caught shoplifting, I will just scream "Freedom of Speech!".
chichimera 1 | 186
24 Jan 2012  #3
don't wipe your mouth with the word freedom if you you don't understand it
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
24 Jan 2012  #4
intellectual property theft, copyright violations and the flood of fake goods on the market should have universal support, but the Wikieaks-type creeps, free dowloaders and assorted plagiarists are screaming 'freedom of speech', bla-bla-bla

All of this happens anyway and all that proposed bill would achieve is restricting freedom of speech on the net. If it is passed, I will take care to refer some of your more intemperate posts to the appropriate authorities.
masks98 27 | 289
24 Jan 2012  #5
shop-lifting and file sharing are not the same thing. ACTA allows the constant monitoring of all your internet activity by ISP's without initial suspicion, they can then hand over that information to any copyright holder that files a claim. Also, keep in mind that the entire point of the internet is the sharing of information ("the information superhighway") and try to picture the sheer amount of information being shared daily (much of which is copyrighted content/information) but this content is not shared illicitly but in the same way we share information from books, movies, music in the real world. ACTA is putting us all at risk.
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
24 Jan 2012  #6
ACTA is putting us all at risk.

Don't forget that the details were heavily influenced by large commercial software companies from the US - not surprisingly ACTA would kill off the whole Open Source sector.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,625
24 Jan 2012  #7
ACTA is putting us all at risk.

ACTA was also a sham - developing countries were deliberately excluded from the policy-making process.

What's frightening is that the United States were pushing for the treaty to include such actions as searching travellers music players for illegally downloaded songs - ridiculous!

It is amusing that Polonius supports such acts which are pushed through in secret however - very Communist.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
24 Jan 2012  #8
The world market is flooded with fake garbage products illegally violating trademarks. Illegally downloading intellectual properties (music, films, etc.) against the wishes of their rightful copyright owners is theft and should not be allowed. Leaking classified government information is treason. Using euphemisms such as 'sharing' does not make it right. You can go into a supermarket and 'share' some of the stuff on the shelf, but the sheriff will call it shoplifting. ACTA may not be perfect, no pioneering legislation ever is, but some mechanism should be found to prevent blatant lawbreaking. Even from the standpoint of civic psychology, respect for the law should be nurtured and cultivated from earliest childhood.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,625
24 Jan 2012  #9
Lived in Poland recently, have we?

Then again, I suppose you're a product of people who fled, rather than of people who opposed.
GabiDaHun 2 | 152
24 Jan 2012  #10
Oh dear. Good to see the reactionaries out in force, nothing perturbs me more than a complete logic bypass.

Copyright infringement and the entertainment industry = massive LOL!

How many of you have actually been introduced to a favourite author, for example, by going into the bookshop and buying a book on the off chance you might like it. Compare this to how many of you have actually been introduced to your favourite author by a friend who leant you a book, to which you then went on to buy other books by this author.

What next? Banning the sale of second hand video games and books? How about we ban libraries for sharing books, CDs and videos?

There is NO evidence that piracy and file sharing loses big entertainment companies money. There is however, growing evidence that file sharing ENCOURAGES new artists to be discovered, introduces music and films to people who otherwise would have no idea of certain films existing. If anything it is free advertising.

Anyone remember that time home taping killed music and television? - It was a sad day, the day the music and entertainment industry died... sob!

What next? Banning the sale of second hand video games and books? How about we ban libraries for sharing books, CDs and videos? It's all COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT and the EQUALS BAD, doesn't it?

If our politicians are are seriously considering closing down sites, and siding with the draconian US government of behalf of entertainment corporations that have failed to keep up with a modern, changing media, then it is nothing but a travesty. Bad businesses should fail. The entertainment industry needs to move with the times. They're still trying to catch Del Boy at the market with his knock-off VHS videos.

The fact that the entertainment companies have themselves been hosting files, and ENCOURGING the download of P2P type software for ILLEGAL uses, and then crying about it, is even more lolable. I know reading is boring for the reactionaries, but why not go and research CNET, check out who they are owned by, have a look at what them, AOL, and disney have been doing for 10 years, and then consider why the editor - who also sits on the board of a massive entertainment company gives software like BIT-torrent 4 stars! The whole thing stinks to high heaven!

Piracy has and always will exist. I'm sure there are plenty of you who used to tape music off the radio! PIRATES!

The problem with this kind of legislation is that the pirates will find a way round. I read a while ago that the bittorrent are working on a new sharing system that masks IP addresses etc. and forces encryption. That's going to be impossible for the authorities to shut down if it happens, and is a perfect example of why harsh laws are a bad idea. The pirates will find ways around any blocks, site shutdowns and turn to other methods that are harder to track and shut down. And of course, right behind them will be the major criminals and paedophiles also taking advantage of the methods to hide themselves.

That can't be good.

But whatever, our politicians are being bought by the entertainment industry, and bullied by one of the most hostile nations in the world, but who cares! As long as we can tub thump with faux outrage! Who needs to be informed?

Time for a lobotomy.

Who made America the Internet police anyway?
ukpolska
24 Jan 2012  #11
Looks like they have agreed to sign it. But there is a rather fascicle statement by Bogdan Zdrojewski:

"ACTA will not change the Polish law in any way. It will also not affect the rights of Polish internet users, neither will it change the way the internet works," daily Rzeczpospolita quoted Mr Boni as saying. However, the minister emphasized that it is important to dispel any doubts before the ratification of the agreement.

"During this ratification period all the arguments for and against need to be considered - then it will be decided whether ACTA should be ratified," he explained.

If that's the case then why say you are going to sign it?

I know reading is boring for the reactionaries, but why not go and research CNET, check out who they are owned by, have a look at what them, AOL

Although I agree with most of what you are saying to quote an action by Alki David is crazy as the man lives in cuckoo land. lol
GabiDaHun 2 | 152
24 Jan 2012  #12
I have no idea who Alki David is. :(

This is a great vid, if you can sit though 15 minutes of shouty man! It's a bit much but does make some good points.

youtube.com/watch?v=y7DkrsCCQ_A
ukpolska
24 Jan 2012  #13
I have no idea who Alki David is. :(

He tried to bring the court action against CNET, but it was more of a publicity stunt and a reaction to his IPTV service being taken down in the US.
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
24 Jan 2012  #14
reactionaries out in force

Actually only one poster has supported it. Always good to read the thread before jumping to conclusions.

But there is a rather fascicle statement by Bogdan Zdrojewski:

Exactly.

Who made America the Internet police anyway?

Some of them feel they have a right and even a duty to impose their values on others.
Nojas 4 | 110
24 Jan 2012  #15
youtube.com/watch?v=N8Xg_C2YmG0
GabiDaHun 2 | 152
24 Jan 2012  #16
Actually only one poster has supported it. Always good to read the thread before jumping to conclusions.

I counted three, not to be pedantic or anything. ;)
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
24 Jan 2012  #17
I counted three

Looking again, I found two. Fortunately a minority opinion - one of them a misanthrope the other a pûrn producer.
Gregrog 4 | 100
24 Jan 2012  #18
You have counted minor support for ACTA. Here it is, but in other places it rather looks like a war. Try to read news about ACTA in wp.pl, onet.pl, serch facebook, demotywatory and other services and you will find that there are only few supporters of this act. In wp in one article they counted by opinions and something around 95% of comments were against. Many people call hackers from Anonymous a hero's who's defending Internet.

What wrote Polonious is rather bullshit. I wonder if he read anything about it or just hear - it's against pirates - great - I support it!
GabiDaHun 2 | 152
24 Jan 2012  #19
there are only few supporters of this act. In wp in one article they counted by opinions and something around 95% of comments were against. Many people call hackers from Anonymous a hero's who's defending Internet.

That's really great news! The last thing you want Poland to do is be like the UK, which deports its own citizens to the US, when no crime has been committed. I hope that the Polish citizens fight against this.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,625
24 Jan 2012  #20
If that's the case then why say you are going to sign it?

It would seem likely that Komorowski will veto it anyway - ignoring mass opposition would be a disaster for him.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
25 Jan 2012  #21
Today (Tuesday) the Polish govt said they would sign the ACTA pact. Sikorski said when hackers block or break into security and national defence websites, they are jeopardising national security. One sight of the anarchist and antiglobalist style hacker scum protesting in the streets of Poland and other countries is enough reason to sign. Polish A-creeps should be given Wolin Island (mined and barbed-wired off from the rest of the country) and be allowed to anarhcise to their hearts concent until they kill each other off.
Piast Poland 3 | 182
25 Jan 2012  #22
There is no democracy and this is proof. ACTA is a danger to us all. The government is not for the people, its for corporations. We cannot allow this to pass. This is a obvious TOTALITARIAN move which will lead into many others.
Meathead 5 | 470
26 Jan 2012  #23
Today (Tuesday) the Polish govt said they would sign the ACTA pact.

I'm kind of curious, where does this intolerance come from? Does this represent political sentiment in Poland? Is this why Poland has been unable to govern itself through much of its history? There's no compromise with this guy.
mafketis 20 | 7,159
26 Jan 2012  #24
I think PO has given up completely on the youth vote for the future.

And where is mr alternative Palikot?
DarekCz - | 1
26 Jan 2012  #25
stop acta in poland
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
26 Jan 2012  #26
Poland has signed the ACTA agreement, all the noisy street demos by adventure-seeking hooligans notwithstanding. I'd wager most of them are oot on the streets just to raise a rumpus and have as much in common with intelletucal-property theft, piracy or anti-counterfeiting (most probably don't even know what that means!) as the anti.-globalists are concerned for the common folk and football hooligans call themselves patriots.. The adrenalin in bubbling and requires release. Maybe sending them to work in a stone quarry to work of the excess energy would be the answer?

If that means that PO (as someone suggested) will lose the youth vote, then that's not saying much for the common sense of today's young people.
Gregrog 4 | 100
26 Jan 2012  #27
Polonius3 - are you mental? What the hell are you talking? You are painting people black just because of accidents in Kielce? What about this thousands in other cities, as Kraków, where 10k people demonstrated peacefully? Totally peacefully, but for you, they're just hooligans, right? Here we talk about internet mostly and piracy, but what about medicine and cheaper drugs(replacements for more expansive ones from big international companies) which in sense of ACTA will be illegal, as breaking copyrights?

If that means that PO (as someone suggested) will lose the youth vote, then that's not saying much for the common sense of today's young people.

Really? What concerns youth is not politics, economy, Katyń etc. But when politics starts to bully environment of youth, which is internet, the situation is quite different. Do you remember why PiS lost majority in Sejm? I remind you - after making big conflict against internet users, which erupted in VERY big politic activity among younger part of polish society and during the pools drowning Kaczyński's party.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
26 Jan 2012  #28
Polish A-creeps should be given Wolin Island

I didn't realise you were such a PO supporter.

Opposition to the agreement (ACTA) has come from both the Democratic Left Alliance (SLD) and conservative Law and Justice (PiS).

Congratulations on being (and I mean this) COMPLETLLY OUT OF TOUCH WITH WHAT IS HAPPENING IN POLAND.

10s of thousands of people continue to protest accross this country (Poland;).
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
26 Jan 2012  #29
Tens of thousands of brown shirts demonstrated across Germany in the early 1930s. Did that make them right?
One should judge a govt or party by its merits and not be blindly partisan. In this case the PO and govt have done something right for a change. And more power to them!
Gregrog 4 | 100
26 Jan 2012  #30
Ten's of millions people demonstrated in Poland in 1980' Did that make them right? As you see, invalid argument. Sorry to say, but you are talking bullshit.


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