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The US sends troops to Poland for drills


WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
24 Apr 2014  #1
breitbart

Obama Sends Paratroopers to Poland Amid Ukraine Crisis

AP: US army paratroopers arrive in Poland beginning a series of military exercises in four countries across Eastern Europe to bolster allies in the wake of Russia's annexation of Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula last month. (April 23)

Thoughts on this? Is this to make Russia think twice or nothing much?
Szalawa 3 | 248
24 Apr 2014  #2
The U.S has its reputation (as the country that invades other countries that oppose its policies) to consider. However this wont scare Russia and the U.S is not that brainless to try anything yet. But if the title was U.S sends missiles they promised Poland years ago... then we might have something
Ziemowit 12 | 3,455
24 Apr 2014  #3
The US sends its troops under the NATO umbrella. Since the pact was signed with Poland and others, the NATO promised Russia not to deploy troops in the new member countries, but now Putin taking over the Crimean peninsula has made them change their minds.
Monitor 14 | 1,821
24 Apr 2014  #4
As they say in this video it's only "signal of support" to Poland. It's too small reinforcement to mean anything to Russia. I agree with Szalawa that the missiles would be something.

the NATO promised Russia not to deploy troops in the new member countries, but now Putin taking over the Crimean peninsula has made them change their minds.

That not yet that. NATO promised not to send substantial forces to Poland. 600 troops to few countries is not substantial.
Harry
24 Apr 2014  #5
Since the pact was signed with Poland and others, the NATO promised Russia not to deploy troops in the new member countries

Have you got a source for that or shall we just file it under 'yet more utter bollocks spouted by Ziemowit'?
I'd be particularly interested in hearing you explain how it is that NATO's Multinational Corps NE is based in Poland and has been since at least 2001.
Monitor 14 | 1,821
24 Apr 2014  #6
Have you got a source for that or shall we just file it under 'yet more utter bollocks spouted by Ziemowit'?

he is right. I've heard about it in tv.

It's mentioned also here:

Lavrov accused NATO of breaching the 1997 agreement between NATO and Russia, which specifies that NATO will not carry out any new "permanent stationing of substantial combat forces."

wsws.org/en/articles/2014/04/04/ukra-a04.html
Crow 137 | 7,588
24 Apr 2014  #7
The US sends troops to Poland for drills

mistake. Look what is stance of Slovakia. Slovakia seams to be more independent country then Poland. Government of Poland works against interests of Poles. Letting massive NATO troops in Poland at this moment is one more proof of this.

No need for NATO troops in Slovakia vis-a-vis Ukraine: Slovak president

Xinhua

The Slovak president said Wednesday during a security council session of the country that he saw no reason to have NATO troops stationed in Slovakia or to provide Slovak military bases to allied forces concerning the situation in Ukraine.

"I see no reason for NATO troops to come to Slovakia," said President Ivan Gasparovic, expressing his conviction that there is no threat of a military conflict between Russia and Ukraine as things stand.

Foreign troops out of Slavia! Let Slavs deal themselves with their own problems

We Serbians has our own ideas for Slavic world. We already got support of Slovak and Czech intelligentsia for our intentions for revival of Commonwealth as Polish Pilsudski suggested. We already provided Russian and Chinese understanding for this. There are more and more representative of Polish elite that understand Serbian stance, not to say that great deal of Polish public support Serbs and pressuring Polish government to give up in taking part in partition of Serbia and to annul its Kosovo recognition.

and, now this. Polish government complicates situation even more.

Spot this >>

"Russia will respond if Russian interests are attacked"

B92, RT.com 11:44

MOSCOW -- Russia will retaliate if the unterests of its citizens or the citizens themselves are threatened, said Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.

Can you now imagine how Serbian loyalty to Poland looks in the eyes of Russians. Serbs looks to them quite idiotic. How can we Serbs defend Poland when Polish government that successfully works against Poland.
Harry
24 Apr 2014  #8
It's mentioned also here:

Lavrov

The problem with relying on Lavrov (other than the fact that he's the representative of murderous scum) is that he's clearly talking utter bollocks. "He also accused NATO of breaching the Montreux convention on naval deployments to the Black Sea, which requires that warships from non-Black Sea countries stay in the region only 21 days. "US warships have recently extended their presence in the Black Sea several times. This extension did not always obey the rules of the Montreux Convention," Lavrov said."

The US is not bound by the Montreux convention, given that it hasn't signed the Montreux convention; neither is NATO, as it hasn't either.
sobieski 107 | 2,129
24 Apr 2014  #9
NATO's Multinational Corps NE is based in Poland and has been since at least 2001.

Including these "terrible Germans", who JK claimed could not operate in Poland for the next seven generations.

The problem with relying on Lavrov

It seems the Russians are rewriting Sudetenland allover. First you invent a minority being "oppressed". Then you "encourage" that minority to stage an "independent" rebellion.

Then you tell you have to send in your troops to support your ethnic minority.
In the meantime other countries stand by helplessly and ask the big bear to be moderate.
Goebbels would have been proud of it all.
Crow 137 | 7,588
24 Apr 2014  #10
every single hostile foreign soldier that comes to Slavic world, would be legitimate Russian and in general Slavic target. Its simple as that. Slavic civilization is above NATO or EU interests.
Harry
24 Apr 2014  #11
every single hostile foreign soldier that comes to Slavic world, would be legitimate Russian and in general Slavic target. Its simple as that.

Poles very simply disagree with you. Poles are happy to have NATO troops in Poland and would like to have more of them here.
Still at least you're thinking soldiers when it comes to targets, not like your heroes in the Serbian Volunteer Guard who considered raping women and children and murdering old men to be their main targets.

Note to mods: I am, as always, only too happy to provide links to testimony and court verdicts regarding the genocide and mass rape carried out by Serb forces; you only need to ask (although it would be off topic of me to post such material here, so I'd post it in the bin.
Monitor 14 | 1,821
24 Apr 2014  #12
The problem with relying on Lavrov

OK, so lets quote NATO's website:

Russian officials claim that US and German officials promised in 1990 that NATO would not expand into Eastern and Central Europe, build military infrastructure near Russia's borders or permanently deploy troops there.

No such pledge was made, and no evidence to back up Russia's claims has ever been produced. Should such a promise have been made by NATO as such, it would have to have been as a formal, written decision by all NATO Allies. Furthermore, the consideration of enlarging NATO came years after German reunification.

Edited as more than 100 words copied and pasted.

nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_109141.htm

So It seems that it wasn't official agreement between NATO and Russia, but It was some kind of promise:
"the Alliance will carry out its collective defence and other missions by ensuring the necessary interoperability, integration, and capability for reinforcement rather than by additional permanent stationing of substantial combat forces. (...) Russia will exercise similar restraint in its conventional force deployments in Europe."
Harry
24 Apr 2014  #13
So It seems that it wasn't official agreement between NATO and Russia, but It was some kind of promise:

Er, did you miss this bit?

Russian officials claim that US and German officials promised in 1990 that NATO would not expand into Eastern and Central Europe, build military infrastructure near Russia's borders or permanently deploy troops there.

That's pretty damn crystal clear. And is supported by the fact that NATO has had a multinational corps based in Poland since at least 2001.
Monitor 14 | 1,821
24 Apr 2014  #14
That's pretty damn crystal clear. And is supported by the fact that NATO has had a multinational corps based in Poland since at least 2001.

Only because they write that it wasn't a promise, doesn't mean that it wasn't. How do you call that quote then: ?

"the Alliance will carry out its collective defence and other missions by ensuring the necessary interoperability, integration, and capability for reinforcement rather than by additional permanent stationing of substantial combat forces. (...) Russia will exercise similar restraint in its conventional force deployments in Europe."

Crow 137 | 7,588
24 Apr 2014  #15
People, let us be realistic. USA troops in Poland may lead to destabilization of the country. Does USA play same role in Poland as it played (play) in Ukraine?

Ukraine lost Crimea thanks to USA. What would Poland lose? Silesia?

Beware Poles. THEY attacking Poland. BUT, Racowie are with Poland, as always. Polska! Holly Sarmatian Mother!
Harry
24 Apr 2014  #16
Please point out the part of that sentence in which NATO promises/commits/warrants that it will not station forces in Poland.
Furthermore, you completely overlook this part of that very same text:

reinforcement may take place, when necessary, in the event of defence against a threat of aggression

Russia has invaded and is occupying a nation next to NATO members.

And you are also pointedly ignoring the fact that NATO has had a multinational corps based in Poland since at least 2001.

Racowie are with Poland, as always.

No, your chetnik rapist murderous scum are right alongside the Russian scum. So, as always, Poles are on the opposite side to Serbs.
Monitor 14 | 1,821
24 Apr 2014  #17
People, let us be realistic. USA troops in Poland may lead to destabilization of the country. Does USA play same role in Poland as it played (play) in Ukraine?

Enemy of our enemy is our friend.

Please point out the part of that sentence in which NATO promises/commits/warrants that it will not station forces in Poland.

It wasn't official promise, but it was kind of promise that if Russia behaves nice, then NATO too. If not, then why was it ever written?

Russia has invaded and is occupying a nation next to NATO members.

I wrote that there is no breaching of this promise now, because 600 soldiers is not substantial amount and they're here temporarily. You just give another reason to it.

And you are also pointedly ignoring the fact that NATO has had a multinational corps based in Poland since at least 2001.

But that text was written prior to 2001. If anybody, then Russia was ignoring it since 2001, not me :)
Harry
24 Apr 2014  #18
If not, then why was it ever written?

It is a statement of how NATO envisages how better to operate. It is no kind of a promise or commitment.

I wrote that there is no breaching of this promise now,

There can never be any breaching of that promise: because no such promise or commitment was ever made.

Since the pact was signed with Poland and others, the NATO promised Russia not to deploy troops in the new member countries

Any chance you're going to try and support this lie, Ziemowit, or would you prefer to simply apologise to us all for polluting PF with pro-Kremlin propaganda?
Crow 137 | 7,588
24 Apr 2014  #19
Poles very simply disagree with you. Poles are happy to have NATO troops in Poland and would like to have more of them here.

anti NATO Poland

anti NATO Poland
Monitor 14 | 1,821
25 Apr 2014  #20
It is a statement of how NATO envisages how better to operate. It is no kind of a promise or commitment.

You have convinced me. Little before in this "Founding Act on Mutual Relations, Cooperation and Security between NATO and the Russian Federation signed in Paris, France" it's written:

NATO and Russia have clarified their intentions with regard to their conventional force postures in Europe's new security environment and are prepared to consult on the evolution of these postures in the framework of the Permanent Joint Council.

NATO reiterates that in the current and foreseeable security environment, the Alliance will carry out its collective defence and other missions by ensuring the necessary interoperability, integration, and capability for reinforcement rather than by additional permanent stationing (...)

It wasn't a promise but description of intention. These words suit better. But it also mean that this act lost validity and perhaps new one should be written.
skrud
25 Apr 2014  #21
Crow wrote :
"every single hostile foreign soldier that comes to Slavic world, would be legitimate Russian and in general Slavic target. Its simple as that. Slavic civilization is above NATO or EU interests."

Seriously guy ... you must be f....in the head saying things like that ! I am Polish , I know many east europeans including Serbs and I am sure if I said something like that to them they would laugh their heads off !!!

P.S.
Get off the glue ! :)))))
Crow 137 | 7,588
25 Apr 2014  #22
you must be right, while i must be wrong. i see how is Slavic civilization weak and dying out but i feel that i must continue to resist. Crazy. i know

Soon, would be over. Nations would swallow last from the people and would be silence and, peace of course.
kondzior 8 | 946
25 Apr 2014  #23
600 men, what a show of strength. I bet Putin is trembling in fear.
It is just a token force of a few hundred men that's going to be here temporarily, unless they sent them to cover up scouting/debating new American base locations with the exercises being a smokescreen.

If 50k American troops would be stationed in Poland permanently then that would be what I would call significant, although still a far cry from cold war era US forces that were stationed in west Germany. Then again permanent and significant US military presence within former Warsaw Pact and USSR states alone would be enough to deter Russia, if Americans would show that they mean business and aren't just bluffing in regards to central and eastern european allies.
Monitor 14 | 1,821
25 Apr 2014  #24
. i see how is Slavic civilization

What civilization are you talking about? As for Poland we don't have any separate civilization from Europe.
Crow 137 | 7,588
25 Apr 2014  #25
Then again permanent and significant US military presence within former Warsaw Pact and USSR states alone would be enough to deter Russia, if Americans would show that they mean business and aren't just bluffing in regards to central and eastern european allies.

i don`t think that number of conventional troops means anything. When comes the moment, at call of Russia, millions of Chinese soldiers would be stationed in Russia. Chinese must. They themselves knows that they are next target, so they must help Russia.

What i see as problem, is that, after war that most probably coming, i simply can`t imagine survival of the Slavic civilization (if any human survive, after all). i see destroyed last bonds that exist among Slavs. i see Slavs ruled by foreigners, from the East, South and West of the globe. Actually, not ruled but absolutely and permanently assimilated. We are in stage after which Slavic civilization, culture and languages goes into museums.

Simple, things are arranged that way that is main stage of the war in Europe stationed in Eastern Europe, in Slavic world. As usually, in last 2000 years

What civilization are you talking about? As for Poland we don't have any separate civilization from Europe.

see. That`s what i mean.

That`s what goes for Slavs. To forget and exist to satisfy necessities of foreigners. For museum. We Slavs are obsolete concept
skrud
25 Apr 2014  #26
We Slavs are obsolete concept

Thank you , I hope you will give up now on theory about Slav-Serb- Polish everlasting love . There wont be any Slavs coalition anytime soon ...we are weak and obsolete .
Monitor 14 | 1,821
25 Apr 2014  #27
...we are weak and obsolete

There is no "we"
Harry
25 Apr 2014  #28
It wasn't a promise but description of intention. These words suit better. But it also mean that this act lost validity and perhaps new one should be written.

And why has the statement of preferred intention lost any validity it may have had? "NATO reiterates that in the current and foreseeable security environment" In that security environment Russia wasn't in the process of invading a neighbouring country which it had promised to protect the territorial integrity of.

We Slavs are obsolete concept

You certainly are in Poland.

As for your pretty photos, every nation has its scum. Polish scum pick up banners like that and march the streets; Serbian scum pick up guns and invade neighbouring countries to commit genocide and mass scale systematic rape. We can judge neither nation on what the scum do.
skrud
25 Apr 2014  #29
There is no "we"

True ;)
Szalawa 3 | 248
25 Apr 2014  #30
What civilization are you talking about? As for Poland we don't have any separate civilization from Europe.

Europe is a continent( and not a very well defined one either), all it is and all it ever will be, not a civilization but many civilizations within a continent.


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