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Secularism = a dying society. How this phenomenon affects birth rate in Poland?


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
1 Aug 2015 #1
At Przystanek Jezus, a Catholic counter-event held in connection with Owsiak's Przystanek Woodstock, the well-known former rock star and current journalist and TV personality Jan Pospieszalski took centre stage.

"Everywhere that there exists a secularised society, demographic depression ensues. Researchers have studied the problem and approach it purely through he prism of scientific analysis. One thing emerges therefrom: Societies begin dying wherever an abortion and contraceptive mentality proliferates," Pospieszalski noted.

According to Pospieszalski, that is taking place all over Europe where a birth rate of 1.3-1.5 prevails. In some cases where a 1.7 has been achieved it has been mainly through immigration. A woman msut bear just over than 2 chldren just the sustain the current demographic status.

zielonagora.gazeta.pl/zielonagora/1,86274,18469796,pospieszalski-na-przystanku-jezus-depresja-demograficzna-to.html#ixzz3hYbe8tnU
bullfrog 6 | 603
1 Aug 2015 #2
Everywhere that there exists a secularised society, demographic depression ensues.

Nonsense. France is undeniably secularised and still has a very healthy birthrate and an increasing population. And no, before you start, this is not due to Muslim immigration!
Atch 17 | 3,264
1 Aug 2015 #3
As far as I can see Polish families have been quite small, for a Catholic country, generally no more than three children even forty or fifty years ago. I would say that Poles have been regulating the number of children they have, for economic reasons, for decades now.
Roger5 1 | 1,458
1 Aug 2015 #4
I would say that Poles have been regulating the number of children they have

Oh, yes. I wonder how ;-)
randomint
1 Aug 2015 #5
The latest UN population projections recently came out
and they have Poland's population falling by a large amount within the next 50-100 years.
I don't know about you but I don't want to see Poland's population fall to the size of Romania.

There is also the immigration topic. Poland should only accept a few only skilled people who are willing to adapt to society and learn the language.

When it comes to fertility rate ,Poland should do what the Russians are doing. The government should give money or incentive to people who have larger families. In Russia the birthrate went from 1.3 to 1.7 in just a few years and is still going up.
jon357 63 | 15,110
1 Aug 2015 #6
Seems strange anyone would want to stage a counter event to Przystanek Woodstock. I wonder which was more popular and why that has been Pospieszalski turned up.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
1 Aug 2015 #7
government should give money

Every Polish government has promised to conduct a pro-family policy. What does that say about politicans?
jon357 63 | 15,110
1 Aug 2015 #8
They all have conducted a pro-family policy.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
1 Aug 2015 #9
Not only families need financial support (concrete money not BS like a few symbolic ZL) but also helped other ways: construction of day care centers and of nursery schools (of course free of charge) and also of bigger and affordable flats. How can families be raised in 35-40sqm flats, like often the case in Poland? I am also shocked by the fact that parents need to buy schoolbooks.

I have read that someone referred to France. If France has such a "good" birth rate, it is only the reasults of (generous) pro-family measures started in 1945, which enable women (if they want to) to have kids AND work at the same time. In most countries, including Poland, women cannot do both. When there is not babcia around and when not having a high salary, impossible to put the kid to a private facility and/or to pay for a niania. Average Poles cannot.

Low birth rate, short life expectancy and emigration are serious problems but I doubt that any politician in Poland feels concerned. Instead of worrying about BS such as JOW and consorts, they'd better see to real problems....
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,781
1 Aug 2015 #10
" I am also shocked by the fact that parents need to buy schoolbooks. "

I thought that was the norm across mainland Europe?
Certainly in Spain one has to buy schoolbooks.
In the UK you don't even need to buy a pencil. OK you have to buy uniforms instead...
I know my Polish sister in law found it very hard to afford everything her kid needed for school.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
1 Aug 2015 #11
@Rozu: so in (most) state schools, it's more of a dress code than a "real uniform"! I've seen the situation too in some private schools in Poland (white polo shirts and navy blue pants/skirt so bearable in terms of costs).

Probably good idea to avoid outfits not really "suitable' for school ;). Sorry, but some teenage girls dress like sl..ts when they go to school.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
1 Aug 2015 #12
have conducted a pro-family policy

Then why hasn't it worked?
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,781
1 Aug 2015 #13
because of so many young people leaving I expect P, having their children elsewhere.
EyalOlmert
1 Aug 2015 #14
Poland should, or actually MUST ensure and fortify it catholic culture and heritage right now.

That is the only way to avoid the destruction of the Polish society, in the same way that happened in countries like Lebanon or Cyprus.
jon357 63 | 15,110
1 Aug 2015 #15
Trying to manipulate cultures never works. Anyway Cyprus is doing fine.
EyalOlmert
1 Aug 2015 #16
" I doubt that any politician in Poland feels concerned."

5 days ago i was in Poland and i saw a campaign trying to stimulate woman to have babies instead of work.

I will see if i can find it somewhere and i will post here.

" Trying to manipulate cultures never works"

So religion for you is manipulation?

Funny to see that coming from the guy that defends the construction of more mosques in Poland.

"Anyway Cyprus is doing fine."

Fine? Almost half of the country is invaded by the turkish, that established a criminal state that no nation in the world recognizes except Turkey themselves.

So how a country that was ripped into pieces, had their man killed, they childrem kidnapped and their woman raped by the turkish just 32 (!!!) years ago is going fine is beyond my imagination.

Your definition of fine is really not-human.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
1 Aug 2015 #17
having their children elsewher

The fact is that more stay than leave - why isn't the government's so-called "pro-family" policy encouraging them to procreate?
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
1 Aug 2015 #18
When it comes to fertility rate ,Poland should do what the Russians are doing.

No thank you. That just encourages breeding for the sake of getting cash, as has been seen by the rise of the "chav" phenomenon in the UK.

The best encouragement is to offer a tax credit (applied against one's tax bill rather than in cash). You've got one child? Okay, you have 10,000zl a year higher tax-free base. Two children? That's 25,000zl tax free a year that you can earn. Three children? 50,000zl. And so on.

This system rewards those that earn well and who breed, thus encouraging the elite of society to have more children. The work shy will find no motivation to breed under such a system, which is very positive.

Poland should, or actually MUST ensure and fortify it catholic culture and heritage right now.

Yes. We absolutely must keep out people from the 3rd world, such as Brazil. Their version of Catholicism is disgusting, what with the vast amounts of flesh on display in Rio every year for instance. Do we want our children to see such disgusting things? Of course not.

The fact is that more stay than leave - why isn't the government's so-called "pro-family" policy encouraging them to procreate?

To be fair Polonius, Germany has a lower rate than Poland, so it must be more complicated than simply a matter of providing cash.
bullfrog 6 | 603
1 Aug 2015 #19
How can families be raised in 35-40sqm flats, like often the case in Poland?

Clearly you did not know Poland under communism to make such statements. Flats were even smaller then and the current situation marks a significant progress

If France has such a "good" birth rate, it is only the reasults of (generous) pro-family measures started in 1945,

Yes, these measures are largely (but not only) responsible. Unfortunately, the current French government has reduced them dramatically for the most well off part of the population

The best encouragement is to offer a tax credit

Agreed, this is more or less the heart of the system applied in France

i saw a campaign trying to stimulate woman to have babies instead of work.

Why instead? As explained by InPolska, it should be possible for women to work AND have babies

Almost half of the country is invaded by the turkish

?? You should get your facts right before posting nonsense. The Turkish invasion was only a reply to a coup initiated by the Greek Cypriots at the instigation of the military junta then in power in Greece, who wanted Greece to annex the island. There were thousands of Turkish Cypriots living on the island at the time and that is why the Turkish army intervened (and no, I am not Turkish!).
InPolska 11 | 1,821
2 Aug 2015 #20
@Bullfrog; yes, family allowances have been reduced to the wealthy (making over 6,000 euros/mo). and it is normal. Financial support should be limited to those who need it and sorry, when we have 6,000 or even more every month, we do NOT need the State to help finance our kids.

As to flats, when I mention those of 35m2, yes, they were built under communism.

Of course, money is very important but no one can force people to have kids if they don't want any ;). I know that under Causescu (spelling?), women had a monthly gynecological exam at work to check whether they were pregnant and to make sure they did not abort but needless to say that such measures were rather unusual ;)


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