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Romney visits Poland: Gets support from Lech Walesa?


masks98 27 | 289
31 Jul 2012 #1
Am I reading this right? That Lech Walesa supports Mitt Romney? Is Poland generally critical of Obama?

I'm only surprised that Lech Walesa would support Romney because, American conservatives love to say that Ronald Reagan took down the soviet union without even mentioning Lech Walesa and Solidarity, Pope John Paul, and Gorbachev. I would be very offended if I were him.

Sorry for misspelling Walesa
jasondmzk
31 Jul 2012 #2
Don't be too shocked. My wife refers to Walesa as, "that dumb plumber". In other words, he doesn't speak for all Poles, nor does that necessarily diminish his "hero" status amongst them, either.
grubas 12 | 1,391
31 Jul 2012 #3
My wife refers to Walesa as, "that dumb plumber".

Dumb plumber?This guy worked as an electrician.

nor does that necessarily diminish his "hero" status amongst them, either.

Amongst some of us.It is proven that he was a snitch.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,788
31 Jul 2012 #4
My wife refers to Walesa as, "that dumb plumber".

Sorry Jason, he was an electrician by trade, not a plumber.

That Lech Walesa supports Mitt Romney?

He supports anyone who can raise enough cash to buy his voice. See also ; Adam Andrejewski. Endorsed by Walesa for a cool $100,000.
jon357 63 | 14,255
31 Jul 2012 #5
Am I reading this right? That Lech Walesa supports Mitt Romney? Is Poland generally critical of Obama?

I shouldn't think most people have a strong opinion about Obama. After all, he's a foreign politician who isn't especially controversial outside his own country. In Poland, people love talking about politics however I don't remember hearing anyone express a view about him even at election time.

As for Wałęsa, he'll meet just about anybody now he's retired. Especially if they make a donation.
jasondmzk
31 Jul 2012 #6
Woopsie. I got his former trade wrong. The qualifier stands, though. He ain't too sharp.
rybnik 18 | 1,462
31 Jul 2012 #7
He supports anyone who can raise enough cash to buy his voice. See also ; Adam Andrejewski. Endorsed by Walesa for a cool $100,000.

between endorsements and speaking engagements he can't be doing that badly.
Puzzie 1 | 63
31 Jul 2012 #8
. I would be very offended if I were him.

I remember great enthusiasm of numerous Poles IN POLAND about Obbama when he was fighting for the presidency. It seems many Polish Americans voted for him. I remember some of their comments about him were simply worshipful. It seems the attitude towards him has changed as a result of his policy of "reset" in America's relations with Moscow, as well as his keeping the Afghan war going. I personally was disgusted by his and other big wigs watching live the assasination of bin Laden. You seem to assert that the Republicans are worse for Poland than Obama, but do they say there was a "Polish death camp"? I actually read their sharp criticism of Obama for using the expression. He hasn't properly apologized for using it yet. And are the Republicans for a "reset" in America's relations with Moscow meaning having good relations with the Muscovites at Poland's expense? Are they for not having an American anti-missile system in Poland? We'll also see if Romney's wife will accompany him during his visit to Poland. Obama's wife didn't accompany him during his (very brief) one. By the way, Obama doesn't seem to be friendly towards Lech Wałęsa. Reportedly, it was him who didn't want Lech Wałęsa to receive from his, Obama's hands, a Medal of Freedom on the late Jan Karski's behalf.

Are Obama and his wife prejudiced against the Polish people?
jasondmzk
31 Jul 2012 #9
"Polish death camp"

Something covered extensively in another thread. He said he misspoke and he apologized. A gracious person would accept that.

Are Obama and his wife prejudiced against the Polish people?

I highly doubt it. I think Poland is only on Obama's radar as far as it pertains to Russia, and America's interests therein.
Harry
31 Jul 2012 #10
Hmm, the Romney trip to Poland seems to be going well:

A Mitt Romney spokesman reprimanded reporters traveling with the candidate on his six-day foreign trip, telling them to "kiss my a**" after they shouted questions from behind a rope line.
As Romney left the site of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Warsaw and walked toward his motorcade parked in Pilsudski Square, reporters began shouting questions from the line where campaign staffers had told them to stay behind, prompting traveling press secretary Rick Gorka to tell a group of reporters to "kiss my a**" and "shove it."
He later apologized.

news.yahoo/mitt-romney-spokesman-tells-reporters-kiss-polish-holy-110442318--abc-news-politics.html

Can anybody find a video which can be viewed from Poland?
isthatu2 4 | 2,704
31 Jul 2012 #11
Well said that man.
The way its been reported here is as though someone had told the Poles to kiss his arse.......very different slant actualy seeing it...gobby reporters.....
MarcinD 4 | 135
1 Aug 2012 #12
Lech Walesa has always been critical of Obama. He is always anti-Communist & he draws comparisons between Obama & Communism.

He seems to always back the USA & in return he is highly viewed in the United States. During the Poland/Russia game, the ESPN (US) telecast showed him

Amongst some of us.It is proven that he was a snitch.

Could you add more on the subject?

This is from his Wikipedia page

Controversy

Over the years, Wałesa has been accused of having been an informer for the Polish secret police Służba Bezpieczeństwa (SB) in the early 1970s, codenamed "Bolek". Although this was long before Wałęsa emerged as a hero of the Solidarity, questions remain whether it had an effect on his later decisions; for example, making him a probable target of blackmail. On 11 August 2000, the Warsaw Appellate Court, V Wydział Lustracyjny, declared that Wałęsa's lustration statement was true - that he had not collaborated with the communist regime.[40] Nonetheless, periodically the question resurfaces.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,788
1 Aug 2012 #13
Lech Walesa has always been critical of Obama. He is always anti-Communist & he draws comparisons between Obama & Communism.

No, he doesn't. Lech Walesa was perhaps never truly anti-Communist - he wanted the same rights as them, but he has no real track record of actually opposing what Communism stood for. May I remind you how Walesa (yes, Walesa) made sure that Jaruzelski was elected President in 1989? If he was as anti-Communist as you claim - he would have relished Jaruzelski's defeat.

He also has never drawn comparisons between Obama and Communism - as we say, he will endorse anything for the right amount of cash.

He seems to always back the USA & in return he is highly viewed in the United States. During the Poland/Russia game, the ESPN (US) telecast showed him

He will back anything for cash. Walesa's no fool - and during his presidency, he was never particularly pro-USA. It was Mazowiecki who invited the American experts in, not Walesa.

Sorry, but Romney merely paid off Walesa. It's well known that he will endorse any political candidate for money.
Piorun - | 658
1 Aug 2012 #14
as we say, he will endorse anything for the right amount of cash.

A sign of a true capitalist.

Sorry, but Romney merely paid off Walesa.

I’m sure you have videotape of money being exchanged for that privilege to prove it LOL
Who cares if Walesa endorses him or not, most of American electorate don’t even know who Walesa is so stop making up absurd accusation against the guy.
jon357 63 | 14,255
1 Aug 2012 #15
most of American electorate don’t even know who Walesa is

A good percentage of the ones with Polish roots do, even if they haven't a clue how he's seen n Poland.

Personally I think he's a good guy and the allegations of collaboration are a fabrication by his enemies.
pawian 161 | 9,971
2 Aug 2012 #16
Lech Walesa was perhaps never truly anti-Communist - he wanted the same rights as them, but he has no real track record of actually opposing what Communism stood for.May I remind you how Walesa (yes, Walesa) made sure that Jaruzelski was elected President in 1989? If he was as anti-Communist as you claim - he would have relished Jaruzelski's defeat.

Delph, you should read one or two books on the latest history of Poland. I recommend you Roszkowski, for example.

You would understand better certain tricky issues. Jaruzelski was chosen the President for the transition period and Solidarity backed him up to avoid angering the Kremlin. Don`t forget that it happened in July 1989 when all Eastern Europe was still dominated by USSR and Soviet troops stationed in Poland and all around. With the Russian unpredictability, nobody really knew what they would do.

Today we know that they wouldn`t do anything.
But today doesn`t mean the same as 23 years ago.
In that case, Wałęsa and Solidarity proved they were wise, responsible leaders.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
2 Aug 2012 #17
Obama's Chicago episode probably has coloured his view of Polish people, becuase by and large there is no love lost between the two communities in the Windy City. Impressions acquired in childhood and youth often make a lifelong imprint on that way people view things.
grubas 12 | 1,391
2 Aug 2012 #18
Could you add more on the subject?

I am not a historian but P.Gontarczyk and S.Cenckiewicz are and this is what they have to say:

youtube.com/watch?v=xM-1Ov9cpmM
delphiandomine 83 | 17,788
2 Aug 2012 #19
Delph, you should read one or two books on the latest history of Poland.

I read as many as I can find ;)

I could say the same about you, Jon...

Don't you have a tram to take to work, or something?

In that case, Wałęsa and Solidarity proved they were wise, responsible leaders.

Indeed. I've got a lot of great respect for Wałęsa's actions during that time - he did what was best for Poland, rather than for his personal glory.

But it does get on my nerves when you hear Americans mentioning the same old rubbish when it's apparent that they haven't got a clue ;) One of the most interesting things to me were the list of demands of Solidarity - the whole thing is so, so, so terribly socialist :D
pawian 161 | 9,971
2 Aug 2012 #20
Yes, I noticed it some time ago, too! Solidarity was a true trade union then. :):):)
delphiandomine 83 | 17,788
2 Aug 2012 #21
Weren't they just?

To bring it back on topic - I wonder how Romney supporters would feel about supporting a man who presented this to the Communists?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21_demands_of_MKS

Eh, Romney?
f stop 25 | 2,513
2 Aug 2012 #22
made me chuckle: theonion.com/articles/world-leader-wondering-why-he-just-met-with-the-fo,29010/
Wroclaw 44 | 5,387
2 Aug 2012 #23
loved this: Komorowski responded, "Who gives a shit?"
jon357 63 | 14,255
2 Aug 2012 #24
Indeed. I've got a lot of great respect for Wałęsa's actions during that time - he did what was best for Poland, rather than for his personal glory.

Exactly. Most of the posters here are a long long way from Warsaw so don't get to see the Solidarność people marching through the streets demanding all sorts of things, usually opposing privatization or relaxation of employment red tape.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
2 Aug 2012 #25
Which posters ? Solidarity is a trade union, what the hell would anyone expect them to demand ? Lower minimal wage ?
Harry
2 Aug 2012 #26
Last time I saw marchers waving Solidarnosc flags, I kind of felt sympathetic. Then I found out they were striking postal workers and then spent an hour trying to hire a police riot suit and baton so I could join in the fun on the correct side.
Barney 14 | 1,469
3 Aug 2012 #27
marching through the streets demanding all sorts of things, usually opposing privatisation or relaxation of employment red tape.

And thats a bad thing?
Harry
3 Aug 2012 #28
^ Frankly, yes.
Barney 14 | 1,469
3 Aug 2012 #29
Grand I'm sure Poland could do with a few Romneys.
There is nothing quite like importing a discredited and busted economic system.


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