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U.S. role in Poland is shrinking


convex 20 | 3,978
14 Oct 2010 #31
Probably. Anyway, apparently someone sees a benefit to it, otherwise Poland wouldn't be doing all the stupid things which he pointed out... There's got to be something....right?
grubas 12 | 1,390
14 Oct 2010 #32
Are we talking about the same thing grubas? :-)

I don't think so.
trener zolwia 1 | 939
14 Oct 2010 #33
Things between Poland and the USA may change after this election, and we get a new congress, and after we rid ourselfs of this bad president we now have.

Very important point. It is the American Left which disregards Poland. Not the Right and not America in general.

As I said above, Bush gave you the missile shield... Obama took it away. Enough said.
Torq
14 Oct 2010 #34
Poland can't punch very strong in international forums. Think two and three letter global organizations.

That's irrelevant, really. Being a largely self-sufficient country we have to concentrate
on our internal affairs and getting rid of the retards who rule us at the moment. With
a proper, independent Polish government we shouldn't give a flying **** about "two letter
global organizations."
grubas 12 | 1,390
14 Oct 2010 #35
Probably. Anyway, apparently someone sees a benefit to it, otherwise Poland wouldn't be doing all the stupid things which he pointed out... There's got to be something....right?

Yes the corrupted traitors see the benefits to their pockets.
convex 20 | 3,978
14 Oct 2010 #36
Very important point. It is the American Left which disregards Poland. Not the Right and not America in general.

Neither cares. The F-16s and not allowing Poland to be part of the VWP happened during the time that the American Right was in control.

As I said above, Bush gave you the missile shield... Obama took it away. Enough said.

Missile shield provided nothing for Poland. At least the Patriots protect Poland.

That's irrelevant, really.

Sure, isolationism works for ole Kim and his paradise in South East Asia. But, good luck with that.
Torq
14 Oct 2010 #37
At least the Patriots protect Poland.

Of course - Polish patriots protect Poland. We always did.

No, wait a minute... you surely didn't mean one lousy battery of Patriot missiles,
stationed in Poland 3 months a year, with the purpose of training only (without proper
battle missiles)?
:D
grubas 12 | 1,390
14 Oct 2010 #38
Missile shield provided nothing for Poland. At least the Patriots protect Poland.

True in regard to MS but what Patriots?I am not aware of any.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 13,204
14 Oct 2010 #39
Have to agree with Convex...isolationism is no real choice for Poland or any other of us little european countries.

It doesn't mean more power but losing that bit what you have.

Poles really have sensitivity feelers the size of planets...easily to hurt but the US for sure didn't want to hurt you purposely...they f*ucking just don't care. And don't think you are the only one.

Look at the long queue of countries vying with each other for Washingtons attention...
One of the most pathetic displays are regularly the Brits with their "special relationship".
And even them feel miffed and "hurt" again and again by the lack of interest from the other side of said "relationship".

The US has with nobody a "special relationship", just common interests...and there is nothing wrong with that.
Bzibzioh
14 Oct 2010 #40
It is the American Left which disregards Poland. Not the Right and not America in general.

I remember when president Bill Clinton went with the official visit to Poland, Hilary visited only Jewish school in Warsaw. Not any Polish one. Years later, during George Bush presidency, his wife Laura visited Polish orphanage in Warsaw. So you may be up to something, trener. I don't mind that Poland isn't any strategic or important partner of US or anything, but why show so much disrespect?

Sure, isolationism works for ole Kim and his paradise in South East Asia. But, good luck with that.

That's not what Torqi is talking about. Poland just isn't suffering from self important delusion and there is nothing wrong with that.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 13,204
14 Oct 2010 #41
Well...I've learned that most of the american righties are very much pro-Israel, pro-Jewish and hence alot of them took over some of the worst anti-polish prejudices from the Jews.

Right doesn't mean automatical pro-polish in the US.
convex 20 | 3,978
14 Oct 2010 #42
They are on 6 month rotations from what I understand.

That's not what Torqi is talking about. Poland just isn't suffering from self important delusion and there is nothing wrong with that.

Ofcourse, but to deny that international forums are an important part of functioning in this wonderful global society that we've managed to find ourselves in, is a bit delusional. Not saying that I agree with it, it's just the way it is.

Well...I've learned that most of the american righties are very much pro-Israel, pro-Jewish and hence alot of them took over some of the worst anti-polish prejudices from the Jews.

Both are pro Israel. Very much so. You can see the pandering come election time.
Torq
14 Oct 2010 #43
They are on 6 month rotations from what I understand.

Not according to "Rzeczpospolita". They say 3 months a year, one school (training) battery.

Do you have any links in English about that poor, lonely battery that is going to station in Poland
for three long months a year, and how they are going to "protect Poland"?

Should be an amusing read :)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
14 Oct 2010 #44
We should always pinch ourselves as a reminder that many ties are covert. Covert operations take place more so than we could ever realise. What, we assume that everyone just does standard office jobs? Nah, plenty of undercover work. Just think of the allegations of beating Muslims in the woods, orchestrated by the CIA with Polish operators being complicit.

The role isn't entirely seen.
convex 20 | 3,978
14 Oct 2010 #45
But seriously, on the missiles period...the US wanted to base interceptors in Poland....in exchange, Poland required security commitments....that's where the Patriots come in to play. So Poland is getting the benefits of the deal, without taking on any of the risk. How is that a bad deal for Poland?

Nice little writeup... Anyway, the idea behind the Patriots was to station a battery in Poland, train Polish troops on them, and then authorize their sale to Poland.

And it appears they're from Ft. Sill.
Ironside 51 | 11,338
14 Oct 2010 #46
In what way is shrinking? U.S. role in Poland - whatever it means?
trener zolwia 1 | 939
14 Oct 2010 #47
I remember when president Bill Clinton went with the official visit to Poland, Hilary visited only Jewish school in Warsaw. Not any Polish one. Years later, during George Bush presidency, his wife Laura visited Polish orphanage in Warsaw. So you may be up to something, trener.

I wonder when and where the Obamas will visit? Lol.

Right doesn't mean automatical pro-polish in the US.

I didn't mean to imply that it did, but evidence shows the Right is more pro-Poland than is our Left.

the american righties are very much pro-Israel, pro-Jewish and

This too. We're pro most folks. B)

hence alot of them took over some of the worst anti-polish prejudices from the Jews.

This is where you go off the tracks.

Both are pro Israel. Very much so. You can see the pandering come election time.

No, very much they are not. The Left may play the pander game come election time but Obama's policies toward Israel have been a stark reversal of our traditional stance and everyone has noticed. He is clearly pro-Pal and anti-Is... since he himself is a Muslim... and a Radical Leftist.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
14 Oct 2010 #48
You'd see volcanic ash mysteriously popping up again. The only thing that's shrinking is Obama's enthusiasm, probably at the thought of meeting Komorowski ;)

The US doesn't have a big role in Poland as they are already onboard with NATO. Ukraine, however.......
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 13,204
14 Oct 2010 #49
This is where you go off the tracks.

Could be...I just got that impression reading some talk boards....
convex 20 | 3,978
14 Oct 2010 #50
No, very much they are not. The Left may play the pander game come election time but Obama's policies toward Israel have been a stark reversal of our traditional stance and everyone has noticed. He is clearly pro-Pal and anti-Is... since he himself is a Muslim... and a Radical Leftist.

Yea, that's got to be why. Maybe the relationship is a bit too one sided now, and it's time to reevaluate what we're getting for our money over there. The US has still used veto power in the UN for any criticism of Israel, still sending over more money than ever. Where's the stark reversal?

I didn't mean to imply that it did, but evidence shows the Right is more pro-Poland than is our Left.

How so?
GUZY 5 | 8
14 Oct 2010 #51
yea, because Detroit, Cleveland and the south side of Chicago are just models of progression...(sarcasm)
Bzibzioh
14 Oct 2010 #52
Could be...

... but, sadly, you are not. You are right on the money.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
14 Oct 2010 #53
The US has with nobody a "special relationship", just common interests...and there is nothing wrong with that

Very well said BB, exactly so. I've mentioned it before in one of the threads here that there's no friendship between countries. We're allies, not friends. Between people, it's a different story.
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
15 Oct 2010 #54
torq wrote:

Being a largely self-sufficient country

really?
Chicago Pollock 7 | 504
15 Oct 2010 #55
Poland can be self sufficient but it isn't. Poland should do now what it should have done in the 1920's and work on becoming more self sufficient.

U.S Role in [Country Name] is Shrinking.

Yeah, that just about says it all for me.

Richasis, success comes from failure.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 13,204
15 Oct 2010 #56
You know that being really self sufficient (because I doubt you know what that means) would mean an impoverishment and a stark lowering of living standards of all Poles?

To keep people from running away to their more prosperous neighbours you would have to fence them in....I doubt you want that.

Just look around you and think how many of those products can be build and produced by Poles only till to the spare parts.

Also no money would come in as you would have barely any trade at all....did you ever think that through???
tow_stalin - | 57
15 Oct 2010 #57
us role is shrinking all over the world...
jwojcie 2 | 763
15 Oct 2010 #58
but the US for sure didn't want to hurt you purposely...

I sincerely believe that they announced their decision regarding The Shield (regardless what I think about it) on 17.09.09 on purpose (17.09.39 Russian invasion). Well either it was straightforward insult or they have the worst diplomacy department on the planet... Anyway it was noted in Poland and will not be forgotten...

About opening question it is really not surprising. You just don't need to look farther than at foreign trade numbers of Poland with USA:

import 2,3 %, export 1,8 %
I suppose they are not even in the first ten... Of course the main partner is Germany and other countries from EU, trade with Russia and of course with China is growing rapidly. Besides our banks wasn't "sophisticated" enough to buy all this financial s***t like MBS, CDO, CDS, etc from US banks. From economical point of view if not counting their influences at IMF and WB, USA is just minor country (it sounds strange I know...), and Poland probably not even in the first twenty for them...

USA is important from Polish perspective mainly because of NATO, but during Bush era they where destroying it on purpose and trying with Europe policy a'la UK in XIX... I would like to repeat here what I wrote before, NATO for Poland is important not only because USA is in it, but even more important because Germany is in it. As soon as USA started to weakening NATO the Polish reaction was WTF are you doing America ?!!

What is worth to note is the fact that before Iraq Poles had let say pink view of USA as a state, you know, the best democracy, pure motives and all that, but after they lied about Iraq to us virginity was lost...

Last but not least they have such a mess with economy AGAIN! that they are just preoccupied with internal affairs. Read about ForeclosureGate... it is shocking and hilarious at the same time, such a mess... I think that some time in the future they will stand again on their feet but they will not regain position they have after 89'. This train left the station and Poland has to adjust wich means keeping good relations with Germany and at least try to warm relations with Russia...
convex 20 | 3,978
15 Oct 2010 #59
I sincerely believe that they announced their decision regarding The Shield (regardless what I think about it) on 17.09.09 on purpose. Well either it was straightforward insult or they have the worst diplomacy department on the planet... Anyway it was noted in Poland and will not be forgotten...

You do know that the missiles were the negative part for Poland, and the Patriots were the positive part right? Now you still get the Patriots, but don't have to take on the burden of basing the missiles in Poland. You, Poland got screwed over big time in that one.

If you don't know what you're talking about, you probably shouldn't talk about it. Everyone uses those tools, and have been for a while. The Polish government, all the banks (MBS, or what did you think they do with those mortgages?), all the big Polish companies.
jwojcie 2 | 763
15 Oct 2010 #60
As I said: "regardless what I think about it". I agree with you that it ended well the way it did, but the insult was there nevertheless.

If you don't know what you're talking about, you probably shouldn't talk about it. Everyone uses those tools, and have been for a while. The Polish government, all the banks (MBS, or what did you think they do with those mortgages?), all the big Polish companies.

I do know what I'm talking about, and no, not everybody is using this tools at least at such a scale. I can assure you that securitization of mortgages is almost not existent on Polish market. The only issue in Poland was with options but that issue is closed. The point about financial tools and USA made financial products was not to amplify about it here but to point out that Poland has not much direct exposure to that and if at all then only indirectly through west european banks. The issue with MBS in USA is that they were fraudulent as it turned out and thanks God we didn't buy them as for example some German banks or even communities in Norway..


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