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Road deaths increase in Poland


jon357 65 | 13,922    
8 Aug 2017  #1
Road deaths (always a shockingly high figure in PL) have increased for the first time since 2010. They had previously been improving - Poles had by 2015 become only the sixth most dangerous drivers in Europe, from a previously far worse position.

One reason for the this, according to Rzeczpospolita, is that at the start of 2016, the PiS government took control of speed cameras away from local authorities and switched (400) half of them off, for some reason.

Fortunately they're now going to get 600 more, and that will hopefully save lives.

There's still a deeper issue to be addressed - why Poles drive so dangerously.
Roger5 1 | 1,464    
9 Aug 2017  #2
My last speeding fine, which I picked up in Podlasie, went to Opole. The cop said all fines go there now.

There's still a deeper issue to be addressed - why Poles drive so dangerously.

So many single carriageways. People get frustrated when they are stuck on a windy road behind three lorries, a bus and a tractor.
Atch 17 | 2,653    
31 Jan 2018  #3
[moved from]
Well America, despite having half the population of the European Union, has twice the number of road deaths, so they clearly shouldn't be allowed on European roads anyway. There's certainly an argument to say they are statistically more dangerous. And America does seem to produce a disproportionately huge number of weird and nutty people, wouldn't you agree Maf?
johnny reb 17 | 3,410    
31 Jan 2018  #4
Well America, despite having half the population of the European Union, has twice the number of road deaths,

Yes but when you take the other factors such as America having more cars owners, more cars on the road, more miles of roads with speed limits over 70 mph, more roadways period, more young drivers, etc. it may be that the E.U. has twice the number of road deaths statistically.

And America does seem to produce a disproportionately huge number of weird and nutty people,

That is because Americans have many more freedoms to express themselves.

We need an hysterical laughter emoticon in this place

We already have one, you.
Casual Observer    
31 Jan 2018  #5
Yes but when you take the other factors

Speed limits are higher in Europe, aren't they?

And car density is much, much higher in Europe - the number of cars per km of road is less than half in the USA (about 30) than in western Europe (about 70). So much more likely to meet another car in Germany. The fact that America has a much higher road casualty rate (per population or per mile) must mean that lots of Americans make quite an effort to crash, often alone. Or maybe it's those stray bullets...or they get distracted by yelling at a Mexican.
johnny reb 17 | 3,410    
  31 Jan 2018  #6
So much more likely to meet another car in Germany.

Wanna compare Germany with L.A. ?
bing.com/images/search?q=l.a.+traffic+jam&qpvt=L.A.+traffic+jam&FORM=IGRE&wlsso=0
Casual Observer    
31 Jan 2018  #7
Wanna compare Germany with L.A. ?

Not really. That would be cherry picking, which is statistical naughtiness.
mafketis 17 | 6,520    
31 Jan 2018  #8
as if they're somehow not the same passport-holding American citizens as Polish-American or Donald Trump.

Surely a sophsiticate like yourself knows that crime (and other stats/habits) vary from one group to another.

perhaps Europe should just ban white American cops, who are disproportionately more likely to kill black people

Or black cops since they're even more disproportionately liable to kill black people than are white cops...

Racial profiling can be a useful tool if not carried to extremes. I understand that some people prefer policy based on ignorance...
johnny reb 17 | 3,410    
31 Jan 2018  #9
So why has she been dismissed from the post of Prime Minister to the post of Deputy Prime Minister if she is as brilliant as you say?

The perceived wisdom was that Kaczyński thought that the polished cosmopolitan Morawiecki would be a better outward face for Poland in its dealings with the EU than Szydło.

Not really. That would be cherry picking,

No it is not, here, pick any major city in the U.S.A. and compare it to your Germany comment.

bing.com/images/search?q=traffic+jams&qpvt=traffic+jams+&FORM=IGRE

Add to Atch's daunting comments about American drivers the fact that most of these big cities have more vehicles on the road than all of the Country Ireland.

How many teen drivers in the E.U. have their own cars compared to the U.S. ?
Then add to the fact that the U.S. also has much worse winters and severe driving conditions then the E.U.
I couldn't imagine E.U. drivers trying to drive in the U.S. on a twelve lane expressway bumper to bumper going 130 KPH. lol
Casual Observer    
31 Jan 2018  #10
No it is not, here, pick any major city in the U.S.A. and compare it to your Germany comment.

Well comparing a city to a nation is obviously non-comparable, innit. You're literally cherry-picking, and your cherries are cities.

much worse winters and severe driving conditions then the E.U.

Yeah, it's really terrible in Florida and California in winter. Too much sun glare? Meanwhile, drivers in Sweden, Scotland, Germany, Switzerland drive around with the top down in January, soaking up the rays, reflecting off the snow.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,272    
31 Jan 2018  #11
I couldn't imagine E.U. drivers trying to drive in the U.S. on a twelve lane expressway bumper to bumper going 130 KPH. lol

I couldn't imagine American drivers doing 260kph on a two lane Autobahn in Germany lol.
johnny reb 17 | 3,410    
  31 Jan 2018  #12
Meanwhile, drivers in Sweden, Scotland, Germany, Switzerland drive around with the top down in January

I would hope so as it is 48 degrees in Germany today but only 4 degrees in International Falls Minnesota today.

I couldn't imagine American drivers doing 260kph

Oh I could as the kids on their crotch rockets do that zipping in and out of traffic eluding police cars on busy expressways here. LOL

Back on topic please before we all get warnings and Atch started it.
Atch 17 | 2,653    
1 Feb 2018  #13
Well America,

The Mods moved my comment from a different thread and I don't want it to sound as though I'm defending deaths on Polish roads by using an argument about America. So, just for the record, Polish road deaths are a disgrace and particularly the high number of pedestrian fatalities which are proportionately much higher than other European countries.
Sylvio 12 | 86    
1 Feb 2018  #14
Pedestrian fatalities in Poland are down to a combination of things: a) being safety conscious is still seen by many as being " pedantic" b) drunk men walking along narrow unlit roads at night time c) many pedestrian crossings have no illuminating lamposts over them. d) most people wear only dark, mon reflective clothes top to toe, and then get told they have the right of way at crossings. Lethal mix.
Braveheart16 14 | 105    
1 Feb 2018  #15
As a car driver myself I have seen all sorts of stupid and reckless driving....such as:
- driving fast at dangerous speeds, just a metre or two behind another car on the dual carriageway.
- undertaking on dual carriageways because presumably the idiot driver cannot wait a few moments for traffic to clear in the fast lane.
- drivers just lurching out from a side road without checking for oncoming traffic
- drivers overtaking not just one car but two or three or more....they don't wait for the car in front to overtake (the lorry or whatever) but instead just go for it....

Next there are the pedestrians:
- suddenly turning onto a zebra crossing and expecting a driver to stop for them.
- walking across a zebra crossing whilst having a in depth conversation on their mobile phones
- walking across a zebra crossing without checking (not even a glimpse or a glance at the road) that just maybe there could be a car/lorry coming whose driver may not be super observant etc with the result that the said pedestrian could be run over....and why should a driver be expected to constantly check for idiot pedestrians who think that as have the legal right of way they can do what they like at zebra crossings in the belief that are immune to any repercussions.....probably yes but hopefully if the police have their sensible hats on they will take a balanced view....and not take the side of the pedestrian just because of their interpretation of the law.....let the criminal lawyers decide on whether there is a case or not...not others who believe they know the law..

Yes there is a duty of care by drivers but this also applies to pedestrians who should act responsibly.....sadly many don't (pedestrians can be just as dangerous as drivers).....so if the law favours the pedestrian then it is time to add an 'article' or two to traffic law in order to address the balance between dangerous driving and dangerous walking.....

I think that there needs to be a review of traffic law to look at the following:
- location of zebra crossings (absolutely useless if located at busy junctions...and there are often too many just a few metres from each other..why?.....far better to relocate them away from junctions with less chance of accidents

- change the law to address the imbalance between drivers and pedestrians rights.
- to impose a greater level of responsibility on pedestrians when crossing the road

I think that at the end of the day the high level of deaths on the roads is due to how the law was sold to the public.....someone somewhere has given out the wrong message and people have translated the law literally, without any measure of responsibility or common sense.... I suspect that it is a case of badly drafted traffic law which has led to people interpreting it themselves...completely unacceptable...but then there are more important things for the government like illegal logging in the B.Forest...
David555 1 | 19    
1 Feb 2018  #16
I was in Poland, years ago back then people were driving syrena (made in Poland) and fiat (made in Poland) and warszawa (made in Poland) and there was almost no accidents.
mafketis 17 | 6,520    
2 Feb 2018  #17
If you're referring to commie times there were plenty of accidents but they received no media coverage as the media were not supposed to spread news about unfortunate events.
Dougpol1 27 | 2,299    
2 Feb 2018  #18
If you're referring to commie times there were plenty of accidents

Lol. Like the infamous proclamation from Jerzy Urban that "There are no AIDS cases in the People's Republic - we would not allow such things to happen here."

The government rhetoric hasn't changed at all has it?
terri 1 | 1,523    
3 Feb 2018  #19
I have personally observed and witnessed as people walk into a zebra crossing without even checking that no cars are coming from either direction. In fact, in one city in Poland they are introducing Led strip lights before a zebra crossing, so that people busy looking into their mobiles can see a flashing light before they stop into a zebra crossing.

If people think that looking at your mobile phone at the exact moment that you wish to cross is more important than your own precious life, then it's no wonder that people get killed on the crossings. I always wait at the side and let the cars go until someone stops for me. My life is precious to me.
Johnmaynard - | 19    
4 Feb 2018  #20
Fortunately they're now going to get 600 more

No! Not again, putting back these money pumping machines!
kaprys 1 | 1,380    
4 Feb 2018  #21
@terri
It works both ways. Too many drivers don't slow down when approaching a zebra crossing.
Today in one of fb groups I read a post by a woman who hit a pedestrian at a crossing because the pedestrian had told her she shouldn't have stopped at the crossing and she wanted to scare her ...
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,649    
4 Feb 2018  #22
tbh I am not surprised there are so many road deaths in Poland, when the test must be laughably easy and drunken driving not taboo. More like UK 40 years ago.

If I am driving and I see Polish plates ahead, I will change lanes or even take a different route. Their driving is a joke. Sorry.
Chemikiem 5 | 1,326    
4 Feb 2018  #23
I always wait at the side and let the cars go until someone stops for me.

Trying not to laugh.......in my experience it's a miracle if someone does stop. In the UK pedestrians have right of way at zebra crossings, in Poland it appears to be the driver. I often wonder what the point is in Poland having zebra crossings at all. Light controlled ones are no better either, I've actually been on crossings when drivers have jumped the lights in front of me, if I wasn't paying attention there was a good chance I could've been hit.

I know there are good and bad drivers in every country, but in my opinion Poland has a much higher proportion of bad ones. They are far too impatient in my opinion.
kaprys 1 | 1,380    
4 Feb 2018  #24
Actually that happens more and more often. But you still need to be very careful especially if it's a two-lane road. It's happened to me twice that a driver stopped to let me cross and there was another car in the second lane whose driver didn't even notice the crossing, me or the other car stopping.
terri 1 | 1,523    
4 Feb 2018  #25
Just to clarify, I am a pedestrian only. Recently, the penalties for not stopping at zebra crossings or for overtaking a stopped car have greatly increased, so more drivers stop. More pedestrians are actually killed on a zebra crossing where one driver stops and the other does not. Even when crossing and actually on a zebra, you must look left and right every few seconds to ensure that a car is not coming from either direction.
Dougpol1 27 | 2,299    
4 Feb 2018  #26
penalties for not stopping at zebra crossings or for overtaking a stopped car have greatly increased

The UK has it right, as usual. Not stopping when the pedestrians' foot is in the road on the pedestrian crossing means a nailed on driving ban. But life is much cheaper here, so as others have said, watch out.

We should have local vigilante groups to dissuade speeding drivers, but some Poles seem to think speeding is a joke and somehow to be admired as skilful. A ban would teach them the error of their ways, but the police are too busy warming their toes in the police station and attending disciplinary hearings. Sign of the times.
johnny reb 17 | 3,410    
4 Feb 2018  #27
Cameras at the cross walks.
When the light is red for the cars to stop to let the pedestrians cross and a car crosses the stripes on the red, pressure switches activate the camera's to take pictures of the driver and cars license plate.

The cops could sit right in their warm office watching and be mailing out tickets.
Fine 1000 zloty first offense
Second offense 2000 zloty, 30 days in jail and loss of drivers license for a year.
Can ya hear us now !
dolnoslask 5 | 2,272    
4 Feb 2018  #28
Cameras at the cross walks

Trouble here is the cameras have less of a survival rate than the trees at the side of the road that are being ripped up by the hundreds.

You would need cameras to watch the cameras, car is king here, get in their way at your own risk, even the coppers speed when off duty.
johnny reb 17 | 3,410    
4 Feb 2018  #29
They have them 30 feet up on steal poles here.
Ya'd have to be pretty good with a sling shot.
Nothing more depressing then opening your mail and finding a picture of your car running a red light with your license plate enlarged with no denying it with a $300 summons included.

Pay within 10 days or there is a bench warrant put out on you which means if you get pulled over for anything you go directly to jail until your prior ticket is paid with has now doubled for late pay costs.

Do we have your attention now.
Chemikiem 5 | 1,326    
4 Feb 2018  #30
a driver stopped to let me cross and there was another car in the second lane whose driver didn't even notice the crossing,

Yep, this is exactly what has happened to me. Numerous times. You need eyes in the back of your head in Poland. The only places I've been where I've encountered worse driving is in developing countries.

penalties for not stopping at zebra crossings or for overtaking a stopped car have greatly increased, so more drivers stop.

Well this is good news but I simply can't understand why drivers don't automatically stop as they do in the UK, otherwise what is the point in having a crossing? If you cross the road anywhere other than at a crossing you are subject to an on the spot fine if caught, but drivers don't stop at the crossings they're meant to! Crazy.

car is king here, get in their way at your own risk,

Yep, that pretty much sums it up Dolno.


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