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Should Poland Remove Visa Restrictions?


Crow 138 | 8,084
15 Jan 2010 #91
Should Poland Remove Visa Restrictions?

only for Slavic countries
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
15 Jan 2010 #92
True but instead of trying to find the ones that are in the crowd its easier and safer to deny access to all of them.

This could be said about any scapegoat throughout history.

So you're saying that Muslim society at large has assimilated well into the greater European community?

I am saying that the two can coexist without one having to become the other.

i'm simply sceptical of Islams ability to cope with European civilisation without attempting to exploit, abuse and subdue native Europeans.

Are the majority of native Europeans that naive and influential? Well I suppose most of them are Christian... :)
Yhe media make it in to an invasion and you subscribe to it.
convex 20 | 3,978
15 Jan 2010 #93
I am saying that the two can coexist without one having to become the other.

Integration needs to happen. It should be the basis of any residency permit for reasons other than employment. The person has to want to be part of Polish culture, not just live on Polish soil.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
15 Jan 2010 #94
This could be said about any scapegoat throughout history.

Except this particular scapegoat is actively trying to f*ck up our civilisation, you may disagree but just see what happened about Muhhamad cartoons.

You dont see Catholics going on crusades over Jesus jokes.

I am saying that the two can coexist without one having to become the other.

Well then what do you propose we do with the milions of Muslims who want to use our liberties and luxuries of our civilisation all the while forcing us to conform to their beliefs and way of life?

Are the majority of native Europeans that naive and influential?

Yes.

Yhe media make it in to an invasion and you subscribe to it.

Screw the media Sean, i went to London from my own little world where everyone is white and everyone is Polish, i've seen how colored minorities and Muslims specifically live and i just dont want slums like that here.

Poland might not be half as rich as UK, our roads suck but its safe and nice here, even in poor neighbourhoods, the society is peaceful, if diversity and tolerance means we get to experience the darker side of London i say f*ck it.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
15 Jan 2010 #95
The person has to want to be part of Polish culture, not just live on Polish soil.

Is that not the same for a Polish person in Ireland, or a Irish person in Poland?
I think it is.
But the Polish person in Ireland does not have to become Irish, he can keep his Polishness.

Except this particular scapegoat is actively trying to f*ck up our civilisation

That's what all scapegoats do.

Muhhamad cartoons.

That was a catastrophy.

You dont see Catholics going on crusades over Jesus jokes.

reminds me of Bush's "Crusade" statement. (why are they laughing???)

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=br_70Kbdpow

Well then what do you propose we do with the milions of Muslims who want to use our liberties and luxuries of our civilisation all the while forcing us to conform to their beliefs and way of life?

That is what I am saying, most Muslims do not want to force you to conform to their way of life, that is the media hype that you and many others are buying in to.

How many Muslims forced you to do anything in London? Wanna talk about it? ;)

if diversity and tolerance means we get to experience the darker side of London i say f*ck it.

I view London as a country in itself. I would not compare London to Warsaw, would you?
OP Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
15 Jan 2010 #96
Sokrates

you are a Greek.

And so what ... you are just as welcome as a person from the Dr. Congo.

only for Slavic countries

For the world Crow ... for the world. Let us not confine the Slavic nations within ourselves. Let us flung our strong hands to punch and break the walls that divide ... to bust open the bones which oppress. To rip apart the tongue which spill poison. Let us destroy all the reasons of division Crow...

Let the Slavs not only unite for themselves ... but for the world ... for humanity ... for peace.... For God!

The person has to want to be part of Polish culture, not just live on Polish soil.

Salut.

GOD WITH US ... T-H-I-S WILL HAPPEN. THE EVOLUTION ... WHICH WILL BREAK THE ICE OF COLD AND MOTIONLESS HEARTs ... AND PUMP THE WARM LIVING BLOOD THROUGH THE VIENS OF LOVE WITH THE DIVINITY OF THE ALL GLORIOUS.

The World Is But One Country ... And Mankind Its Citizens.
clerynka - | 45
15 Jan 2010 #97
there is missing a "Yes but only for thoose who have positive relationship with Poland"

agreed :)
OP Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
15 Jan 2010 #98
Include that in "Yes to all nations" ... because the nations which dont have positive relations are not about its people. I am talking about people, not Politicians and terrorists.

PEOPLE...Think People guyz....think people!
convex 20 | 3,978
15 Jan 2010 #99
But the Polish person in Ireland does not have to become Irish, he can keep his Polishness.

Absolutely. Unless they are there only on a work visa...which should ONLY be given if the if the skill isn't available in country, not because the labor is too expensive in the country...
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
15 Jan 2010 #100
So you think there should be visa restrictions for Polish people going to Ireland, like it was before the E.U?
I am not sure where you are coming from, until I do it is difficult to understand where you are going with this.
As there are Polish living and working in Ireland who do not know much about Irish culture, how would you go about changing that?
And if the labour is too expensive in any country, is that not a bad thing anyway? (perhaps it is just the use of the word "too" in that sentence, giving it a negative meaning?)
convex 20 | 3,978
15 Jan 2010 #101
So you think there should be visa restrictions for Polish people going to Ireland, like it was before the E.U?

Yes, I think there should be visa restrictions for transient workers.

As there are Polish living and working in Ireland who do not know much about Irish culture, how would you go about changing that?

If it's a job that can be performed by a local, then it should be performed by a local. Companies that aren't happy with that should relocate and be at the mercy of duties to get their products into the lucrative markets.

And if the labour is too expensive in any country, is that not a bad thing anyway?

If the labor is too expensive, it has to be driven by something. The entire idea of open borders was to bring up the standard of living in all countries. People are now realizing that free movement of labor and goods is equalizing standard of living, dropping it in some countries and raising it in others. Free movement of labor and goods works in an environment where the labor laws are the same, where tax rates are the same, where deductions are the same... it doesn't quite work as implemented. Companies are just hoping from country to country feeding from the tax payer trough. Duties would check that power.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
15 Jan 2010 #102
But the Polish person in Ireland does not have to become Irish, he can keep his Polishness.

The difference Sean is that my Polishness is not difference from Germaness, Britishness or Loch Ness :)
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
15 Jan 2010 #103
If the labor is too expensive, it has to be driven by something.

Well take Ireland, it has a very high minimum wage. So some companies have left and some are ending up here in Poland.

The entire idea of open borders was to bring up the standard of living in all countries.

I was told that open boarders would make us level.
It could not only bring up the poorer countries but i also see it as an investment, what the E.U. invests in to Poland now will make Poland a much stronger country, much quicker and in the future we will have a standard playing field.

Free movement of labor and goods works in an environment where the labor laws are the same,

I think this has been changing too in the E.U. at least.

Companies are just hoping from country to country feeding from the tax payer trough.

But if

the labor is too expensive

, they are hardly going to make things at a loss.

The difference Sean is that my Polishness is not difference from Germaness, Britishness or Loch Ness :)

In many respects I agree and that can be said for virtually all nationalities, it just depends how much you want to believe the differences.
frd 7 | 1,399
15 Jan 2010 #104
There should be a visa for anyone outside eu.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
15 Jan 2010 #105
Why just the E.U.?
Why not geographical Europe or people of Europeans decent, like a lot of people in Australia or North America? and why only them...?

I think some of you are looking at the positives for Polish people being able to work in other E.U. countries but are unwilling to apply the same positives to other countries.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 10,377
15 Jan 2010 #106
Why not geographical Europe or people of Europeans decent, like a lot of people in Australia or North America? and why only them...?

You will be called a racist then and all media will be over you...just restricting it to EU officially has the same effect but is much more innocent looking and nobody can say a thing! :)
convex 20 | 3,978
15 Jan 2010 #107
Well take Ireland, it has a very high minimum wage. So some companies have left and some are ending up here in Poland.

A high minimum wage calls for high prices, products as well as labor. Minimum wage that is not harmonized in an area that has free movement of goods and labor will lead to a drop in standard of living for the areas that maintain high minimum wage laws.

I was under the impression that the goal of open borders was to accelerate bringing the new EU countries up to the same level as Western Europe...not to bring standard of living down to the level of Portugal.

The way to build up Poland would be to create a market in Poland. Foreign investments and loans, controlled inflation, harmonization of labor laws, deductions. Even infrastructure investment via distribution of wealth in the form of taxes in rich countries. That's (infrastructure investment) kind of already happening, but it's not presented like that to the people.

The average Pole has managed to get themselves into serious debt over the last 10 years (GDP growth!), that's alright while interest rates are low...

If the objective is to level everything, that's pretty easy. Completely open borders, no tariffs, free movement of labor... Seems pretty easy. If you want to bring the country in question up to the same standard of living, it needs to be done with strategic investment and the creation of internal demand.

Personally, I'd love to see completely free trade without any kind of tariffs. It would bring an end to the current situation of borrowing to consume.
jarnowa 4 | 499
15 Jan 2010 #108
And so what ... you are just as welcome as a person from the Dr. Congo.

Europe is for Europeans.

Please have a look on the map, Congo lies NOT in Europe.
So Congo people are NOT welcome.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
15 Jan 2010 #109
Europe is for Europeans.

Says the person too scared to tell us where he is really from.
jarnowa 4 | 499
15 Jan 2010 #110
says the guy who is too scared to tell that he's a black immigrant.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
15 Jan 2010 #111
You talent for misunderstanding is boundless.
So where are you from? I bet you are not an E.U. member but are from Europe, where are your parents from boy?
OP Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
15 Jan 2010 #112
Europe is for Europeans.

Europe is a name of a chunk of soil, sand and stones... it may well be called Asia if not for some mountains ... and ideotic division on the basis of color etc. Actually all divisions are ideotic.

However ... apart from that. Europe and all the land of this world is for all. Everyone ... each and every one! We are not here forever ... and this dont belong to us. It is og God's... it Belongs to Him ... we are just here for a moment.

Just in the same way that a sunlight which falls on your hand through your window does not automatically belong to you. It belongs to the sun and shed its warmth and light as mercy from God. Once its night in your place...the same light will fall on someone elses hand and give light and warmth to him ... and that guy might even be from Dr. Congo.

This skin of ours are going to decay.

This makes me wonder ... about our dear Plk123. He used to be here like all of us ... and now fighting through life. Many members might've died to...do we always know? Absolutely not!!! ...

Anything can happen to me or you in the next 5 minutes. Its nothing to fight for ... everyone...

The best we can do is to do good ... because good deeds are immortal ... goodness is carried to the next realm. Bad deeds are mortal ... and the next realm has no place for it.

Heaven is the nearness to God....while hell is remoteness from Him. And God is Love ... (John 4:8).

Let us unite and learn how to love. The weaker we are ... the more sacrifice and effort love demands from us.
Crow 138 | 8,084
15 Jan 2010 #113
Let the Slavs not only unite for themselves ... but for the world ... for humanity ... for peace.... For God!

we would found reason, we would found reason. I am sure

and, only God himself would be limit of our power. Only almighty sky
jarnowa 4 | 499
15 Jan 2010 #114
where are your parents from?

i already told you that i'm a real European. and so is my family. for centuries.

your parents are from where? Congo? Jamaica? India?
1jola 14 | 1,879
15 Jan 2010 #115
i'm a real European

What is that? Some kind of a generic citizen of Greater Europe? Socialist EUnuchs.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
15 Jan 2010 #116
i already told you that i'm a real European.

Where in Europe are you from?
And why are you so ashamed of it?
espana 17 | 910
15 Jan 2010 #117
your parents are from where? Congo? Jamaica? India?

jarnowa

sean is more white than the snow . a true brit.
jarnowa 4 | 499
15 Jan 2010 #118
Sean Black Man, i'm not ashamed to tell, but first tell us your ethnic background.
szarlotka 8 | 2,209
15 Jan 2010 #119
but first tell us your ethnic background.

I think the name Sean may give you a clue;)
Wroclaw Boy
15 Jan 2010 #120
Sean Black Man,

Ive met SeanBM and i can assure you hes not black.

i'm not ashamed to tell

I believe you are, ive asked several times. Youre definetely from a backward former soviet satellite state such as Bulgaria or Romania possibly Hungary.


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