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Should Poland Remove Visa Restrictions?


Wroclaw Boy
12 Jan 2010 #31
threatening my nice comfortable life by letting Muslims into Poland.

Poles in the UK affects many Brits nice comfortable lives.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
12 Jan 2010 #32
mixing German and Polish cultures have among other things produced Kopernik,

At best, there is also Auschwitz.

Just because tolerance and co-operation works for some races/nations/cultures doesnt mean it works always and for everyone.

Co-operation, in my honest opinion, is the only thing that will save the human race.
It has saved us so far.
Co-operation is the name of the game!

Sorry i dont like democracy that much, its a neccesary evil but being an egoist that i am i dont like that other people get to express their opinions as well

I never fully understood what you would like? I can assume you would like to be the dictator but if that were not possible, what way do you think things should be run? and why?

I think democracy is the best we have on offer.

I dont want to watch my back in fear of offending some caveman,

In our current democracy you do not have this fear.

i dont want stuff that co-existence with these bastards brings, i dont want Poland to become rife with ethnic issues is that so wrong?

I don't think it is wrong or right, it is your opinion.

Only if they were wealthy, not gonna sacrifice my weekly beer for my ideals:)

Now that is an ideology that I can live with.
Maybe if the Muslims just drank more beer.... ;)

communists were even worse in that Muslims want to dominate us and destroy our way of life while Communists wanted to dominate us and corrupt our way, this blurred the borders of good/bad and left a lasting impression.

I am glad you see my point.
convex 20 | 3,978
12 Jan 2010 #33
In our current democracy you do not have this fear.

I think he's referring to people like Theo van Gogh, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Geert Wilders, Kurt Westergaard...
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
12 Jan 2010 #35
Poles in the UK affects many Brits nice comfortable lives.

Yeah by making your job 2x better and 4x cheaper then you're able to do it, we affect your lives by having superior work ethic not by beating the sh*t out of you for not covering your faces etc.

At best, there is also Auschwitz.

There's two sides to every coin, Germans chose the wrong one.

Co-operation, in my honest opinion, is the only thing that will save the human race.
It has saved us so far.

Absolutely, so lets co-operate with Muslims when they're ready, right now they're not and i'm not willing to give it a shot when my country and my heritage are at stake.

I never fully understood what you would like? I can assume you would like to be the dictator but if that were not possible, what way do you think things should be run? and why?
I think democracy is the best we have on offer.

Watch Verhoovens (pretty sure i focked the spelling) Starship Troopers, or read the book its based on, enlightened authoritarism with freedom of everything as long as it doesnt f*ck with the system and a system that promotes personal responsibility, democracy does not.

Its like Germans in WW2, 90% of Germans loved Hitler but because of the 10% decent ones suddenly all Germans of the war period become potentially decent, i f*cking hate collective irresponsibility, anyway watch the movie or read Heinleins book.

In our current democracy you do not have this fear.

Rubbish Sean, in UK you cant even fire a n*gger without having a racial charge, in Sweden there's double stardards where Muslims are priveliged, your old democracies are weak and Muslims take advantage of them and the host countries, i dont want Poland to follow your example and be exploited by barbarians.

If you make a cartoon about Jesus a Polish community in UK will send you an angry letter, if you make a cartoon about Muhhamad you're gonna get stabbed by an angry paki, now tell me muslim society is just like us.
Harry
12 Jan 2010 #36
I think Sokrates, that you would make a very good North Korean, you have the right attitude.

He'd make a very good Nazi. Pity that they wouldn't take him.
Wroclaw Boy
12 Jan 2010 #37
Yeah by making your job 2x better and 4x cheaper then you're able to do it, we affect your lives by having superior work ethic not by beating the sh*t out of you for not covering your faces etc.

Nah not at all, can you believe that in my home town of Southampton its claimed 1 in 11 is Polish. Thats just fcuking insane. I knew it was bad but not that bad, my mates from back home are saying you cant go anywhere without the buggers being around.

4x cheaper then you're able to do it

Never in my entire life have i witnessed the result of cheap labour and materials as i have in Poland, its absolutely everywhere.

My brother in law had a problem with his car recently, the mechanic said the Poles at the petrol station had mixed fuel with water to increase their profit.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
12 Jan 2010 #38
There's two sides to every coin

I think the main difference between your world view and mine is you can live in mine.

we winning!!!!

I have been thinking about this, if winning means that we live in a segregated world, completely fragmented and built on fear, doubt and anger, then I don't think we have won anything.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
12 Jan 2010 #39
Nah not at all

No we conquered your market because we're so damn sexy your employees prefer to give us job over anyone else.

can you believe that in my home town of Southampton its claimed 1 in 11 is Polish

Yes i can, i'd be fed up with Brits if a couple hundred thousand invaded my country too but its not like we're turning your comfy world upside down we assimilate pretty well.

Ah petrol cheating is common but otherwise we're doing better job even at home, the main problem in Poland is the laws and the goverment, the laws are f*cked up and the goverment is as corrupt as it gets which messes with quality of what a common citizen does.

Now in a country with normal (compared to Poland) laws and administration we just conquered the sh*t out of anyone and everyone using nothing else but our work.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
12 Jan 2010 #40
we just conquered the sh*t out of anyone and everyone using nothing else but our work.

You have completely lost me there.
What point are you trying to make?
That Poles work harder than any other nationality?
king polkakamon - | 544
12 Jan 2010 #41
That Poles work harder than any other nationality?

I don't know if they work more but they look better for sure.

we conquered your market because we're so damn sexy

Here lies the answer.
Wroclaw Boy
12 Jan 2010 #42
but its not like we're turning your comfy world upside down we assimilate pretty well.

Well it is really if youre a UK citizen with a family to support being undercut by cheap Polish migrants.

we just conquered the sh*t out of anyone and everyone using nothing else but our work.

there it is again this belief that Poles work harder than anybody else, in the UK they worked hard as they knew they could earn 8 times more than their Polish salary. With regard to Poles working hard in Poland sorry i just cant see it - at all. Besides its mostly the Poles with real dedication and an abbility to succeed that have the balls to up off to another country.
convex 20 | 3,978
12 Jan 2010 #43
Well it is really if youre a UK citizen with a family to support being undercut by cheap Polish migrants.

Open those borders up, I'd much rather pay an Indian 1000zl a month to work construction than the overpriced polish labor that one has to employ around here.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
12 Jan 2010 #44
That Poles work harder than any other nationality?

In Europe? Yes, harder, cheaper and more efficient, your own job market proves my point. No one including famed Germans comes even remotely close.

Well it is really if youre a UK citizen with a family to support being undercut by cheap Polish migrants.

Well first you needed us to scrub toilets, then your employers discovered we do managing better too, you could of course try to match us in efficiency, invisible hand of the market and all that.

there it is again this belief that Poles work harder than anybody else,

I dont know about anybody, i imagine many Asian cultures have superior work ethics but as far as Europe, yeah we can and did outdo anyone and everyone here.

in the UK they worked hard as they knew they could earn 8 times more than their Polish salary.

You live in Poland you should know better, they worked hard because Poland is a tough enviroment, hard work for small money and high expectations regarding the outcome, amusingly years of communism and wolf-like capitalism that came afterwards shaped us into the most badass workforce in Europe.

Though given what we did with our country in the interwar period i'm leaning to Poles being some of the worlds most resourceful people communism or not.

With regard to Poles working hard in Poland sorry i just cant see it

Its ok, your employers can. For some reason they prefer us over other Eastern Europeans, Brits and everyone else, must be our good looks:)

Besides its mostly the Poles with real dedication and an abbility to succeed that have the balls to up off to another country.

Then we must have quite a few people with balls and an ability to succeed since i'm watching it happen all around here in Poland.

Also for a country of losers whho's succesfull youth left for better shores we do pretty good in crisis, you know being the only country on the continent to experience economic growth and all.
king polkakamon - | 544
12 Jan 2010 #45
I concur that here in Greece the employer is far more anxious if he loses his Pole than he would be if he lost his greek or albo employee.
convex 20 | 3,978
12 Jan 2010 #46
I associate Polish labor with a lot of things; honest, hardworking, cheap. I've never managed to attach "quality" to that list.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
12 Jan 2010 #47
Thats because of a certain stereotype that existed and still does exist in the West, but the Market is not governed by stereotypes but by the raw gain, on every possible field the best workers out there are the Poles, if we werent quality workers we wouldnt occupy so many high ranking positions in various companies right now, notice how suddenly the Polish plumber is gone? Thats because the locals suddenly realised plumbing is not the only thing we do better then the rest of Europe.

Thats why i'm optimistic about EU, politicians might fuss but 20 years from now we'll be holding the old economies by the balls, first UK now this crisis prove that we're just that awesome as far as work and trade, stereotypes or not we are the financial future of Europe.
jarnowa 4 | 499
12 Jan 2010 #48
In my opinion ... the world should be open and people should be free!

the quickest way to turn Europe in a 3rd world sh#thole.

they should withdraw your voting rights for the rest of your life because you are obvioulsy a threat to Europe!
convex 20 | 3,978
12 Jan 2010 #49
Thats because of a certain stereotype that existed and still does exist in the West, but the Market is not governed by stereotypes but by the raw gain, on every possible field the best workers out there are the Poles

I look at the terrible locally built roads, the substandard craftsmanship of the new developments, the fact that most every large construction project is handled by a foreign company (hey, I just read that Monostal is getting the boot in Wroclaw and is being replaced by Max Boegl...), almost all program and project managers that I know in Poland are foreigners, software coming out of Poland is terrible... I see the difference in quality at the dealership when my car gets worked on, all the Polish aircraft owners take their planes to German or Czech shops to get work done... I think there is a huge difference between "It's a good job for the price" and "It's a good job". It's getting better, but lets be serious, Poland is competitive because the government is throwing in everything but the kitchen sink in order to keep the zloty (and labor) low and keep the FDI coming in through special economic zones and huge tax breaks for creating cheap labor jobs.
sledz 23 | 2,250
12 Jan 2010 #50
I've never managed to attach "quality" to that list.

As far a construction goes, I would have to agree with you. Poles have a very bad reputation in the US for doing shoddy work. Most Americans wont hire a Polish company to work on thier homes, while most Poles only hire other Poles because either they cant speak English or just dont know any better, then they wind up get ripped off by a bunch of off the boat hacks.

I do know some execellent polish carpenters but theyve lived here 20 years and they know all our construction codes.

Most Polocks want the job done dirt cheap, so you get what you pay for:)

Why are the Chinese building all the roads in Poland???????
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
12 Jan 2010 #51
I look at the terrible locally built roads,

Thats not quality mate, thats the lack of money and proper legislature. Good roads are expensive and we're still a poor country.

the substandard craftsmanship of the new developments

Any examples? As far as i know Polish industry produces top quality computer hardware, chemical appliances, electronics etc, to be honest i havent seen a case of a company having substandard craftsmanship, i'm sure it happens but its exceptionally rare.

the fact that most every large construction project is handled by a foreign company

You mean in your little world inside your head?:) Lets take Wrocław for example, both of the Galerie were built by Poles, they were owned partially by Germans but we're buying them out as we speak.

Or maybe you mean the "Krakowianka" highway also built by Poles? Or the facilities for the Euro built by Polish companies? Or maybe the first true skyscraper built here in Wrocław by a Polish businessman.

Sorry buddy but you're talking out of your ass.

almost all program and project managers that I know in Poland are foreigners

Sure and pigs fly:) It so happens i'm a project manager as well as leading our company promotion campaigns and i never met a foreigner contemporary here in Poland, in fact there's very few foreigners at all here, now stop making stuff up eh?

I think there is a huge difference between "It's a good job for the price" and "It's a good job".

Given the mass exodus of Western companies into Poland the foreign investors do not share your view, neither do Western employers, both seem to think we do the best job that can be done for any price while requiring the smallest price that can be paid:)

You can hop up and down and make up a hundred stories on how Poles suck at everything and everything thats done in Poland is done by good white men from the West but the fact is the investors love us, the employers love us, our work, our industry and our skills are desired to a point where we virtually conquered the market:)

Poland is competitive because the government is throwing in everything but the kitchen sink in order to keep the zloty

Care to elaborate? Just last month FT was praising Poles for their wise currency handling but you seem to "know" something quite opposite:)

and huge tax breaks for creating cheap labor jobs.

Huge tax breaks? We must be talking about an alternate dimention Poland then, last i heard taxes are going up and we're not gonna experience at tax breaks even in the low income sector, but your theories are fun even if completely detached from reality.

special economic zones

Which special economic zones would that be? :)

Why are the Chinese building all the roads in Poland???????

Not yet but they will, mainly because they're cheap and they will use Polish subcontractors which means most of the money stays home and generates even more income.

Also they will force our construction companies to be more competitive.

Sledż i heard something quite the opposite about Polish construction companies in America, in fact wasnt Chrysler renovated by one of the Polish companies? I cant fail but notice that you use a derogatory term "polock" would that and associated bull stem from the fact that you're a prejudiced idiot?

I think the main difference between your world view and mine is you can live in mine.

Just read Heinleins Starship Troopers, its a political satire but you'll find it interesting.
sledz 23 | 2,250
12 Jan 2010 #52
Sledż i heard something quite the opposite about Polish construction companies in America

In the Chicago area they have a bad reputation, its well know..sorry

I cant fail but notice that you use a derogatory term "polock" would that and associated ******** stem from the fact that you're a prejudiced idiot?

Here in Chicago Polocks call each other Polocks all day long,its not offensive here.

Do you live here you ******* idiot?????

Not yet but they will, mainly because they're cheap

and they work harder than the typical wodka filled Pole
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
12 Jan 2010 #53
In the Chicago area they have a bad reputation, its well know..sorry

You realise quite a large patch of Chicago was developed by Poles and descendants of Poles? Also that Greenpoint before the colored minorites moved in was perceived as ideal middle class neighbourhood?

Here in Chicago Polocks call each other Polocks all day long,its not offensive here.

As far as i know its offensive everywhere, it amounts to calling a black guy a n*gger also i doubt you're a Polock, Polish or even a Polak:)

Do you live here you ******* idiot?????

No but i have family there and in NY and i have a pretty good idea of how we're doing in Chicago and to put it short, we're doing well.

and they work harder than the typical wodka filled Pole

Since you're obviously not Polish and prejudiced towards Poles what the hell are you doing posting on boards about all things Polish? Love hate relationship?:)
sledz 23 | 2,250
12 Jan 2010 #54
You realise quite a large patch of Chicago was developed by Poles and descendants of Poles?

Then what happened to thier work ethic? I see Poles preying on the other Poles that cant speak English and they rip them off all the time!

As far as i know its offensive everywhere, it amounts to calling a black guy a n*gger also i doubt you're a Polock, Polish or even a Polak:)

I dont think so, everybody says it to each other over here.

Just like Paki is an insult in the UK and it isnt a derogatory word in the US.

Since you're obviously not Polish and prejudiced what the hell are you doing here?

You obviously dont know me at all:)

Im sure the Polish government doesnt want the visa restrictions removed, then they would have to put a fence around the whole county to keep the people from leaving, it would be like a ghost town....lol
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
12 Jan 2010 #55
Then what happened to thier work ethic? I see Poles preying on the other Poles that cant speak English and they rip them off all the time!

Thats sadly true there's a large exploitatitive industry around that but it has nothing to do with how we work and everything to do with morality, loyalty (or lack of thereof) abroad.

I dont think so, everybody says it to each other over here.

So you live in some kind of a slum then like the blacks calling each other "nigga"? When i was at my aunts i never heard Poles calling each other "Pollocks" on the contrary its a very offensive term.

You obviously dont know me at all:)

Nope i dont i just read what you write, the fact that Poles do exploit each other abroad is about the first true negative thing you describe, everything else is pulled from your arse so you're either a non-Polish troll or you're actually a Pole but you're that much of a prick and have some sort of an issue.

Just like Paki is an insult in the UK and it isnt a derogatory word in the US.

Though i dont live in US and am as Polish as it gets i have an American citizenship and lots of family there and Pollock is bloody derogatory all across America, its an insult and used as an insult.

Im sure the Polish government doesnt want the visa restrictions removed, then they would have to put a fence around the whole county to keep the people from leaving, it would be like a ghost town....lol

Why? Everyone who wanted left already, in fact more then half of them returned home by now.
convex 20 | 3,978
12 Jan 2010 #56
Thats not quality mate, thats the lack of money and proper legislature. Good roads are expensive and we're still a poor country.

What lack of money? Those projects are running at the same costs as equivalent construction in Germany. Are substandard materials being used? Enough money to rebuild the roads every couple of years, but not enough to do it right the first time?

Any examples?

I was talking about realestate developments, and yes, I've got some first hand examples of cracks magically appearing in walls, the apparent lack of skills with a level when creating balconies, the magic "disco lights" in rooms across the nation... As for non skilled labor, you're right.

both of the Galerie were built by Poles, they were owned partially by Germans but we're buying them out as we speak.

How's that skyscraper working out by the way?

Right, you mean like Dominikanska which was built by Hochtief, managed by ECE? 100% Polish financing

Or do you mean like the airport where JSK has the project? Also, 100% Polish financing, the Germans are just building it.

Or Pasaz Grunwaldzki....nevermind

Maybe it's Plac Grunwaldzki, the round about that you're talking about? The one that took twice as long to build as the shopping center and seems to have stonework done by a drunken autistic kid?

It so happens i'm a project manager as well as leading our company promotion campaigns and i never met a foreigner contemporary here in Poland, in fact there's very few foreigners at all here

I've worked with three large banks and a construction company here and not once have I come across a Polish program manager. But that's just my experience.

stories on how Poles suck at everything and everything thats done in Poland is done by good white men from the West

I'm not saying that Poles suck at everything. I just think that it is difficult to find good quality work in Poland. Cheap is abundant, quality isn't. It is getting better, but right now there is still a very prevalent "promise everything and under deliver" thing going on. Hell, Lot even takes their planes to Germany for their C checks.

Care to elaborate? Just last month FT was praising Poles for their wise currency handling but you seem to "know" something quite opposite:)

Yea, it's really wise actually. I've praised NBP on this before. By keeping the zloty low, it keeps wages and investment costs for foreign investors low. That way, managed to ride out the "crisis" with a devalued zloty. It was a great move. Business won't have any interest having the value of the zloty move any...hopefully the lack in purchasing power will be made up with the new jobs.

Huge tax breaks?

I must have misread.
paiz.gov.pl/index/?id=cfbc6c5cfb8a3e10fab12aa3512153df
The corporate tax rate has also dropped down to 19% for 2009.
sledz 23 | 2,250
12 Jan 2010 #57
Thats sadly true there's a large exploitatitive industry around that but it has nothing to do with how we work and everything to do with morality, loyalty (or lack of thereof) abroad.

Theyre Americans that do it also, its seems some polish are leary of Americans so they only go with one of these small Polish companies then wind up getting taking advantage of because alot of these so called contractors are just out to cheat.

Thats just a certain percent, most Poles I know like you said have high morals and are good friends of mine.

Im not here to bash on Poles

So you live in some kind of a slum then like

I live in a Polish neighborhood and Polock is used umgunst friends all the time.

I suppose you do have a point, I doubt that I would walk up to a complete stranger and say "hey Polock" I could see it being offensive then. I didnt mean it that way twords you.

but you're that much of a prick and have some sort of an issue.

And youre not?????
Ive read plenty of your posts, so save me the self righteous BS

Pollock is bloody derogatory all across America, its an insult and used as an insult.

Not all Poles feel this way, I could walk into a bar and hear "Polock" all night long.

Like you said you dont live here so you dont really know what youre are talking about!
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
12 Jan 2010 #58
What lack of money? Those projects are running at the same costs as equivalent construction in Germany

New roads? Yes and they're built to the same standard as German ones, if you meant that new projects are shoddy then thats outright bull.

Enough money to rebuild the roads every couple of years, but not enough to do it right the first time?

Nope. enough money to repair (somewhat) already bad roads from communist time but not enough money to strip them off and build new ones which might be your impression of shoddy, during communism everything was but then again there was no free development, right now we're slowly replacing them.

How's that skyscraper working out by the way?

Quite fast.

Right, you mean like Dominikanska which was built by Hochtief, managed by ECE? 100% Polish financing

Now google who's managing it now:))))

Or Pasaz Grunwaldzki....nevermind

Also use google once more for current management and co-investor:)

e worked with three large banks and a construction company here and not once have I come across a Polish program manager. But that's just my experience.

You were also a commando, a master hacker and a Jedi knight, got any more tall stories?

I just think that it is difficult to find good quality work in Poland.

Based on your non-existant experience?:)

Cheap is abundant, quality isn't.

Could you please point out that poor quality produce? You know specific brands? Or would you like to see pictures of Wrocław directly after the war and after we rebuilt its centre for an example on Polish Quality?:)

Lot even takes their planes to Germany for their C checks.

The more you write the more new stuff i learn about my country, could it be possibly that you're making stuff up to reinforce your stereotypical view of Poland? Naaah :)))

I've praised NBP on this before. By keeping the zloty low

Uhuh you realise its not the NBP that kept the zloty low? In fact BNP has nothing to do with? Here and stop writing about stuff you're clueless about mr "manager" :) Making stuff up doesnt help you either.

I must have misread. The corporate tax rate has also dropped down to 19% for 2009.

Have another read, just because they changed the taxation form doesnt mean the tax got lower and as far as i'm aware no it did not drop down.
NomadatNet 1 | 457
12 Jan 2010 #59
visas should be according to the life views.

racists and nationalists should not be allowed to any other country.
religious people should not be allowed to any other country with another religion.
world socialists like me should be able to travel to any country without any permission.

fair enough?
jarnowa 4 | 499
12 Jan 2010 #60
White non-muslim Europeans sure, in any numbers, Muslims and Blacks never.

You are so right!
Poland and the rest of central/eastern Europe should close their borders for any non-European.


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