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Poland ready to receive Libyan refugees


rybnik 18 | 1,462
13 Apr 2011 #61
Why it always has to be Europe or/and US coming to the rescue?

Because we are civilized people; we are predominantly charitable people and because it's the right thing to do. :)
ShortHairThug - | 1,103
13 Apr 2011 #62
My point entirely

Then you’re missing my, after all aren’t you doing it under humanitarian banner? Time to do some of it now, what are a thousand refugees as you have pointed out, France and Britain can easily absorb them. Do you honestly think that it's it, just a beginning mark my words. We said no to the war this time and we will gladly sit it out watching you dig yourself a deeper and deeper grave. Time to put the action where your mouth is, don’t pass on the bock, it’s your mess deal with it. It has nothing to do with the EU.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
13 Apr 2011 #63
after all aren’t you doing it under humanitarian banner?

Under what? Poland is doing it 'under' treaties the Polish government have signed.

France and Britain can easily absorb them

Plenty there already, so yes.

We said no to the war this time and we will gladly sit it out watching you dig yourself a deeper and deeper grave

"We"? Aren't you an American? We in Poland are part of Europe which has common protocols on refugees.

It has nothing to do with the EU.

Quite a lot really, since we are a member.
ShortHairThug - | 1,103
13 Apr 2011 #64
BS. And you know it. How do you think it’s all going to play out? You will install puppet regime there, corrupt the few as usual to control resources, your colonial ambition fulfilled and back to the same old. This is not about a genuine freedom for the people, period. We want no part of it as it will only benefit you at the end. I think the Libyan’s realize too.

Word to the wise, cut that American BS. You're insulting me. You don't want to make it personal trust me.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
13 Apr 2011 #65
your colonial ambition fulfilled and back to the same old.

Poland has a "colonial ambition"?

We want no part of it

Your president and government are very involved.

You don't want to make it personal trust me.

Is that a threat? Wow, an internet warrior!

Hard to say anything about a 'puppet regime' since there's nobody waiting in the wings and Moussa Koussa is likely to be prosecuted. One thing is clear, most people want Gaddafi out. And fast.
ShortHairThug - | 1,103
13 Apr 2011 #66
Hard to say anything about a 'puppet regime' since there's nobody waiting in the wings

That’s the beauty of it all, why do you suppose that France jumped on it so fast? LOL

Moussa Koussa is likely to be prosecuted. One thing is clear, most people want Gaddafi out. And fast.

Who cares about the fate of Moussa Koussa. They really have something to look forward to then, to see another take his place with your blessing. Wow a real revelation there.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
13 Apr 2011 #67
That’s the beauty of it all, why do you suppose the France jump at it so fast? LOL

Contracts, dear boy, contracts. Check out Harouge inter alia.

Who cares about the faith of Moussa Koussa. The really have something to look forward to then, to see another take his place with your blessing. Wow a real revelation there.

What have you been smoking? And did it come from Libya? ;-)
ShortHairThug - | 1,103
13 Apr 2011 #68
Contracts, dear boy, contracts.

Now you're talking. Something we can both agree on.

What have you been smoking? And did it come from Libya? ;-)

Nope from Greece I believe, :)
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
13 Apr 2011 #69
Now you're talking. Something we can both agree on.

Remember that France was the big player in Iraq during the Saddam regime and is very keen for a piece of the action in Libya where French companies were building a bit of a foothold but only as engineering sub-contractors.

The question on everybody's lips here is what will happen when Gaddafi is gone and how long reconstruction will take. And who is arming the rebels. Britain is largely innocent - they stand to lose a lot because of all this and Cameron seemed really unprepared.

I was supposed to be there now, a really good short term contract (for a French firm) on the mediterranean coast, basking in the sun. But off to Mexico (the Deepwater Horizon repairs) on Saturday, so not all bad.

Nope from Greece I believe, :)

Wow - I've never had Greek - is it good?
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
13 Apr 2011 #70
Remember that France was the big player in Iraq during the Saddam regime and is very keen for a piece of the action in Libya where French companies were building a bit of a foothold but only as engineering sub-contractors.

And don't forget Vietnam. Wherever France goes, trouble follows.
Bzibzioh
13 Apr 2011 #71
Because we are civilized people; we are predominantly charitable people and because it's the right thing to do. :)

Could some Africans, Chinese, Arabs, Indians, South Americans try to be civilized and charitable too?
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
13 Apr 2011 #72
One thing is clear, most people want Gaddafi out. And fast.

Just a question...who told you that?

You know...if Ghaddafi was really so hated by the Libyans he would be out by now. Makes you think...(or should).
By now the soldiers should have defected from the dictator and there should be uprisings in more cities. But it rather looks like as if the rebels number is dwindling.

Doesn't look like a popular uprising anymore....right now the NATO does the rebels fighting. Without them the insurgency would be dead by now.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
13 Apr 2011 #73
Just a question...who told you that?

Perhaps I should have said 'most people in Europe who are expressing an opinion'.

You know...if Ghaddafi was really so hated by the Libyans he would be out by now. Makes you think...(or should).
By now the soldiers should have been defected and there should be uprisings in more cities.

Yes. I think I mentioned before that it's a tribal thing. Gaddafi's tribe (a fairly small one) will always support him and tribes allied to them will mostly stay loyal. The rebels come from tribes who haven't had such a good deal over the last few years.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
13 Apr 2011 #74
Perhaps I should have said 'most people in Europe who are expressing an opinion'.

Yeah...exactly
I also got only always the same sources...

I would give something to see and hear the other side in that conflict. And that I can't makes me thinking...

The rebels come from tribes who haven't had such a good deal over the last few years.

Did you also watch that footage about how rebels treated pro-Ghaddafi folks? Doesn't bode well for the time after their victory (should that ever happen).

Bloody mess
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
13 Apr 2011 #75
The rebels come from tribes who haven't had such a good deal over the last few years.

And these tribes, mostly from the east, are fundamental Islamic (more like the Taliban in Afghanistan) while the Gaddafi government is more moderate, surprisingly enough. If they are more fundamental than Gaddafi, maybe they will cause trouble later.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
13 Apr 2011 #76
I would give something to see and hear the other side in that conflict. And that I can't makes me thinking...

I know a few expats who worked there and had to leave. They're all pro-Gaddafi and are seeing conspiracies everywhere. Mostly to do with countries who stand to gain from high oil prices.

Doesn't bode well for the time after their victory (should that ever happen).

It will be a nightmare. The Senussi regime (who the rebels' tribes supported) were brutal and bloodthirsty. Doesn't bode well for groups like the Touareg in the south either. :-(
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
13 Apr 2011 #77
Yeah...I for one didn't knew that under Ghaddafi there was gender equality...something unheard of elsewhere in the arab world.

Those "allahuakbar" rebels won't care for that I think....

Actually the more I read about Libya the more unsure I get about the painted image in our media. Who knows which nutter we right now help to power and if that is really such a good idea.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
13 Apr 2011 #78
Mostly to do with countries who stand to gain from high oil prices.

Talk about your redistribution of wealth! That's the most obvious kind yet no one calls OPEC on it.
rybnik 18 | 1,462
13 Apr 2011 #79
That’s the beauty of it all, why do you suppose that France jumped on it so fast?

Italy's the big player in Libya. France jumped on it because the little man with the BIG Napoleon-complex wants to show the Americans/Brits that he can "get down". He's very ambitious(see how he's keeping those Muslim women in check ;)

Could some Africans, Chinese, Arabs, Indians, South Americans try to be civilized and charitable too?

Point taken. Do we wait for those countries to take part and watch hundreds of people die?
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
13 Apr 2011 #80
And these tribes, mostly from the east, are fundamental Islamic (more like the Taliban in Afghanistan)

Fundamentalist in a very different way to the Taliban, though what happens in the future is anyone's guess.

Yeah...I for one didn't knew that under Ghaddafi there was gender equality...something unheard of elsewhere in the arab world.

Those "allahuakbar" rebels won't care for that I think....

Exactly.

One thing puzzling me is the role (lack of) of the Berbers in this. Gaddafi hates Berber culture, once saying that a mother teaching her child the Berber language is a form of child abuse, yet we don't hear anything about them.

I wondered about Eygpt's role in this. If the rebels form a government they stand to gain from the reconstruction of all the damaged oil installations.

France jumped on it because the little man with the BIG Napoleon-complex wants to show the Americans/Brits that he can "get down"

Yes. And the contracts for French companies afterwards. As another poster said, wherever the French are a mess follows.

Talk about your redistribution of wealth! That's the most obvious kind yet no one calls OPEC on it.

OPEC members are rubbing their hands with glee and some countries are reparing oil wells they had been about to decommision.
FlaglessPole 4 | 669
13 Apr 2011 #81
Without them the insurgency would be dead by now.

He said most people not all of them. Besides most Poles wanted communists and soviets out from the very beginning of PRP yet it took 44 years to achieve that.

Anyways not surprisingly Gaddafi's reign comes to a NOT so grinding hault (well-oiled I guess;)) after 42 years...
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
13 Apr 2011 #82
They want Gaddafi out because he is too moderate for them. They want someone in charge who will make women wear the full burka and not give them any rights. It will end up resembling Iran after the revolution.
isthatu2 4 | 2,704
13 Apr 2011 #83
Maybe therefore that those soldiers fought for UK?

er,nope,nice try,they fought for the government of Poland (In Exile).
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
13 Apr 2011 #84
They want Gaddafi out because he is too moderate for them. They want someone in charge who will make women wear the full burka and not give them any rights. It will end up resembling Iran after the revolution.

That's a bit pessimistic, but it's true that the rebels' tribes have drawn the short straw for educational opportunities over the last few years.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
13 Apr 2011 #85
One would think, being on Europe's doorstep, this country will have an opportunity to gain from their influence and not tumble backwards into darkness.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
13 Apr 2011 #86
Yes - I don't understand why. Algeria next door only seems to be getting worse.
isthatu2 4 | 2,704
13 Apr 2011 #87
By now the soldiers should have defected from the dictator and there should be uprisings in more cities.

any german uprisings then,or did you all love the one who shall remain nameless?
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
13 Apr 2011 #88
The majority did, that's what I thought of too....

There had been x assassination attempts and even a resistance who tried to pull the plug under Hitler late in the war (Valkyrie), but to no time had there been ever a "danger" of a popular uprising.

Quite the contrary, the officers of the resistance were seen quite unanimously as traitors by the folks at home and the soldiers at the fronts...even for decades after the war.
Kubster - | 1
13 Apr 2011 #89
Bratwurst Boy said:
Quite the contrary, the officers of the resistance were seen quite unanimously as traitors by the folks at home and the soldiers at the fronts...even for decades after the war.

Interesting...

Since the topic is about Libya in North Africa, I am reminded of Erwin Rommel and wonder how long before the truth behind his death was generally accepted in Germany, and what was the general opinion of him at that time?

Anyway that's off topic.

For some reason I find myself behind the Rebels (maybe because I thought Gaddafi disrespected the UN meeting on 23 September 2009... Put him in a zoo. I thought! But more importantly because of the Lockerbie Bombing!) Even though what the opposition may end up being is uncertain, I have this hunch that it won't be another Iran or Taliban (I hope not!). Either way I still believe in Democracy, I'd like to see how these people use the gift of freedom, otherwise I don't know how I can judge them, when their behind a "dictator's" decisions.

And finally in response to the OP... I'd say that it should be a given YES to accepting only 12 desperate people. But I don't know anything about them, anyway to do background checks on them? Probably not. How would one go about enforcing some kind of criteria to figure out whether one enters a nation expecting to integrate, or simply 'use' that nation, or maybe not so much 'use' as even 'colonize'. ;)
jeden - | 226
13 Apr 2011 #90
Which is all the more reason to stick to whatever good will one has declared. I know it's hard for people from certain parts of Europe to understand. You certainly don't seem to.

So our Prime Minister should say : We have good will but , Poland is poor country and we cant accept those refugees.

Yes it`s hard coz our law system based on hard law. Unfortunetly EU system too. ;-)

Which still works alongside the EU. And doesn't in any way negate the protocol on refugees that Poland has signed up to.

Right. But YOU CANT say that we should accept refugees coz we are in EU. The law of EU is not a source for accepting refugees.

We sign up some contracts, our law is compatible with international conventions, and we will obey this LAW.

BUT If you think that we will accept refugges only coz of politness, or coz " european solidarity" THEN You are WRONG.
UK and France didn`t obey european solidarity when they started WAR. They didn`t ask Poland when they started to bombard Libya.


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