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Poland: The poor get poorer - and next year will be worse


Varsovian 92 | 634
4 Dec 2012 #1
More than 2m Poles live in poverty

15% of Poles live below the breadline.

Poverty is officially set at PLN 887 (GBP 175) for a one-person household and PLN 1863 (GBP 370) for a four-person family (two adults and two children).

The Central Statistical Office expects the situation to worsen next year.

Intellectual city dwellers are expected to blame it all on the Catholic Church, and by the way Kobylanski is worse than Palikot don't you know? You have to bear in mind that PiS caused decades of depression, starting at the birth of the Duck twins, so we shouldn't worry too much about people who are destined to die early. As all good Catholic fanatics know - "The poor will always be with us."

Amen.

(Did this make it onto the front pages of the central organ now known as "Garzepa" ?)
milky 13 | 1,657
4 Dec 2012 #2
15% of Poles live below the breadline.

And, add this to the millions who were forced to leave, paints a very dull picture of Poland, unlike the tabloid image of escaping the recession BS.

Even destroyed Ireland is doing better than "booming Poland".

indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=ei&v=69
Harry
4 Dec 2012 #3
More than 2m Poles live in poverty

15% of Poles live below the breadline.

So you mean that we should redistribute wealth? From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. Never had you down as a Marxist Varsovian.

Intellectual city dwellers are expected to blame it all on the Catholic Church

One does have to wonder why, given that two million Poles live in poverty, the Polish state gives the RCC very nearly half a billion zloty per year? And why does the Polish state spend another 400 million zloty every year on religious indoctrination classes in primary schools, plus more for middle school classes. There's a billion zloty per year which could be given to poor Poles who actually need the cash. And how much could be raised if the church paid tax on it Polish revenue and on its Polish properties? Billions? Tens of billions?
OP Varsovian 92 | 634
4 Dec 2012 #4
Redistribution of wealth is Marxist says Harry. The Church should take over the State says Harry.
Ironside 49 | 10,375
4 Dec 2012 #5
One does have to wonder why, given that two million Poles live in poverty, the Polish state gives the RCC very nearly half a billion zloty per year

If you don't know why you should find out instead if making snotty remarks on forum!

Redistribution of wealth is Marxist says Harry. The Church should take over the State says Harry.

+!
Harry
4 Dec 2012 #6
Redistribution of wealth is Marxist says Harry.

Harry says "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." is Marxist. Varsovian lies about that. Shock, horror.

The Church should take over the State says Harry.

Harry says that the church should stop taking money from the state, pay for its own indoctrination classes and pay its taxes. Varsovian lies about that. Shock, horror.

If you don't know why you should find out instead if making snotty remarks on forum!

I know exactly why:
- 89m zloty for the Church Fund
- 221m zloty for Church universities
- 26m zloty for renovations of Church buildings
- 121m zloty through EU subsidies
- 3m zloty a year for chaplains in hospitals
- 20m zloty for Ordinates of the Polish army
- 2m zloty for chaplains in prisons
- 5.5m for Church charities.

The question is why the RCC can't pay for that lot itself. Or at least the RCC faithful can pay for it.
OP Varsovian 92 | 634
4 Dec 2012 #7
Keep grinding your axe until it's a finely shaped tool, Harry!
Harry
4 Dec 2012 #8
Could you perhaps address the issues raised in my post rather than making personal comments? Given that Poland has a problem with poverty, why should the RCC get more than a billion zloty in cash and be let off taxes worth many times that much? Why can't that money instead be given to Poles who live in poverty and who need the money far more than a vastly rich institution?
Ironside 49 | 10,375
4 Dec 2012 #9
The question is why the RCC can't pay for that lot itself. Or at least the RCC faithful can pay for it.

Because they pay also taxes as Polish citizens. Should they have an option to pay on the state or the church I would support your suggestion with wholeheartedly!The fact is that Catholics support with their taxes any institutions and organizations which given an option they wouldn't like to support - only fair that non-Catholics should support the Church!

why should the RCC get more than a billion zloty in cash and be let off

Maybe because those money are well spend and more of this money is redistributed than in would be if some political institution would get hold of that money.

If you were really concerned with helping the poor you would let the Church alone. Unfortunately your only aim is to kick the Church!
Harry
4 Dec 2012 #10
Because they pay also taxes as Polish citizens.

The majority of Poles do not go to church. So why can't Poles be given a choice as to whether they fund the RCC or not. Personally I would far rather my tax money is spent on those who live in poverty than on subsidising a vastly rich institution. You of course pay no tax in Poland and so have no right to say where Polish taxes should go.

The fact is that Catholics support with their taxes any institutions and organizations which given an option they wouldn't like to support

As do non-Catholics.

only fair that non-Catholics should support the Church!

Name another religion in Poland that gets a billion zloty per year in cash from the Polish tax payer. And then tell us why Poland should give billions to the RCC before it feeds the hungry children of Polish families that are living in poverty.

f you were really concerned with helping the poor you would let the Church alone.

I'd be willing to bet a vast amount of cash that I've done ten times more to help the poor in Poland than you have. But let's not talk about us, let's talk about why the RCC needs cash more than Polish families that are living in poverty.
Ironside 49 | 10,375
4 Dec 2012 #11
The majority of Poles do not go to church.

the majority of Poles do not go to hospital. ~Why would healthy people support that institution?

So why can't Poles be given a choice as to whether they fund the RCC or not.

Because gov nowadays want to exercise total control over the population! By all means taxes should be levied at people with their consent. Say 20$ for gov 50$ for police, 10$ for the Church and so on... People should have an option to opt out of paying for gov or the church ....by all means I'm all for it!

You of course pay no tax in Poland and so have no right to say where Polish taxes should go.

You of course are not Polish and yet you dare to clap your trap about issues which do not concern you or you have vague idea about or you simply do not care!

Name another religion in Poland that gets a billion zloty per year in cash from the Polish tax payer.

Name another religion in Poland to which belong so many people.

the RCC needs cash more than Polish families

the RCC helps the poor better than hand outs of money would/ why gov need so many bureaucrats ?
OP Varsovian 92 | 634
4 Dec 2012 #12
"Intellectual city dwellers are expected to blame it all on the Catholic Church, and by the way Kobylanski is worse than Palikot don't you know? You have to bear in mind that PiS caused decades of depression, starting at the birth of the Duck twins, so we shouldn't worry too much about people who are destined to die early. As all good Catholic fanatics know - "The poor will always be with us."

Amen.
Harry
4 Dec 2012 #13
the majority of Poles do not go to hospital. ~Why would healthy people support that institution?

If you knew anything about Poles, you'd know that there are very few of them who don't regularly make use of the health care system. And the ones who don't are often simply the ones who are so poor that they cannot afford the medication that they are prescribed. Such a pity that the Polish taxpayer has to give more than a billion to the RCC and so can't help the people who can't afford their prescriptions.

You of course are not Polish and yet you dare to clap your trap about issues which do not concern you or you have vague idea about or you simply do not care!

I'm Polish any time I care to fill the form in. And I pay a fairly large amount of tax every year to the Polish state. That means I most certainly do have the right to say that I am disgusted that the Polish state gives a huge amount of money to a vastly rich organisation instead of lifting Polish families out of poverty and that I am sickened that the RCC accepts that money.

Name another religion in Poland to which belong so many people.

Name a religion which has been rejected by more Poles.

the RCC helps the poor better than hand outs of money would

If you lived in Poland you'd know that the RCC takes money from the poor.
OP Varsovian 92 | 634
4 Dec 2012 #14
The evil Roman Catholic Church, with its sinister caped acolytes, steals money from Poles.
Ironside 49 | 10,375
4 Dec 2012 #15
I'm Polish any time I care to fill the form in.

You mean you can apply for Polish passport? Yet you do not have one, so it would prudent to wait till you get one ......and even then you would be no Polish!

And I pay a fairly large amount of tax every year to the Polish state

As well you shoudl making living in Poland. Do you want a medal >?

If you knew anything about Poles, you'd know that there are very few of them who don't regularly make use of the health care system.

You are not paying attention Harry - I said hospitals!

By the way the RCC in Poland is positive organization not without flows but overall one which cannot be pared wit anything in Poland be it privet be it governmental!

attacking the Church in Poland from fanatical ideological position is harmful for many Poles poor and otherwise who would be and are recipients of the Church help and support in the areas neglected by gov and millions of redundant bureaucrats!
Harry
4 Dec 2012 #16
The evil Roman Catholic Church, with its sinister caped acolytes, steals money from Poles.

Takes, not steals.
Barney 15 | 1,472
4 Dec 2012 #17
So why can't Poles be given a choice as to whether they fund the RCC or not.

Form a political party, have that as your platform and see how far you get.

Edit

By the way the RCC in Poland is positive organization not without flows but overall one which cannot be pared wit anything in Poland be it privet be it governmental!

Quite true.
There is unfortunately an arrogant anti Catholic bias that runs right through the Angol world.
jon357 63 | 15,066
4 Dec 2012 #18
Form a political party, have that as your platform and see how far you get.

Like Ruch Palikota, who've done quite well.

There is unfortunately an arrogant anti Catholic bias that runs right through the Angol world.

Or just a preference for laicity and a secular society where everyone's views are respected and none are allowed to profess absolute truth and impose their values on others.
Ironside 49 | 10,375
4 Dec 2012 #19
badmouthing people and organizations is not what I call respect!
jon357 63 | 15,066
4 Dec 2012 #20
Which society does that? Remember, sacred cows are best left in India.

Or are you just following me round the threads for some seedy reason?
TheOther 6 | 3,818
4 Dec 2012 #21
badmouthing people and organizations is not what I call respect!

You think that the RCC deserves respect after covering up the crimes of its kiddie-fiddling members?
Harry
4 Dec 2012 #22
none are allowed to profess absolute truth

I don't mind in the slightest people professing absolute truth. What I object to is those people being giving billions while there are people in Poland living in poverty. Yes the poor will get poorer next years: and next year the RCC will get even more money to indoctrinate children at state schools.

are you just following me round the threads for some seedy reason?

Perhaps he's realised that he has no chance of bromance with me and so is shifting his attention to you?
Ironside 49 | 10,375
4 Dec 2012 #23
Or are you just following me round the threads for some seedy reason?

Indeed if debating different point of views on the Internet forum you would call seedy!
If you are not interested in debate just ignore me lol!

You think that the RCC deserves respect after covering up the crimes of its kiddie-fiddling members?

It may come as a surprise to you but the RCC is not a cookie monster nor monolith! There is majority of respectable and herd working people who do not deserve spite of some ignorant riff-rafts!Every person deserve respect unless committed bad deeds!

What I object to is those people being giving billions while there are people in Poland living in poverty. Yes the poor will get poorer next years: and next year the RCC will get even more money to indoctrinate children at state schools.

That is only your prejudice on your part there is no correctional between money given to the RCC by the gov and poverty in Poland. I would say that pulling that one is not only silly but it is a cheap shot!And that all because you disagree with the RCC teaching. As I said no respect!

erhaps he's realised that he has no chance of bromance with me and so is shifting his attention to you?

Come on Harry there is nothing I like about you, on the other hand I have no quarrel with jon!
Some people like to debate issues!Are you coming here to preach ?
Harry
4 Dec 2012 #24
there is no correctional between money given to the RCC by the gov and poverty in Poland.

So you don't agree that if the Polish government didn't give more than a billion zloty to the RCC and didn't let the RCC not paid many times that amount in taxes, there would be any more money to fight poverty in Poland? How pathetic.

Come on Harry there is nothing I like about you,

The fact that you are obsessed with me is plain for all to see.
Ironside 49 | 10,375
4 Dec 2012 #25
So you don't agree that if the Polish government didn't give more than a billion zloty to the RCC and didn't let the RCC not paid many times that amount in taxes, there would be any more money to fight poverty in Poland? How pathetic.

Do you really believe it would? That is truly pathetic!lol

The fact that you are obsessed with me is plain for all to see.

lol!!!
pgtx 29 | 3,159
4 Dec 2012 #26
Members! Please, stop being so self absorbed. Focus only on the topic of the thead and not yourselves. Thank you!
TheOther 6 | 3,818
4 Dec 2012 #27
the RCC is not a cookie monster nor monolith! There is majority of respectable and herd working people who do not deserve spite of some ignorant riff-rafts!Every person deserve respect unless committed bad deeds!

I was talking about the RCC as an institution, not about individuals. If the highest ranks of the church (including the last and the present pope) cover up hideous crimes within the organization, then they don't deserve respect at all. It's not about the Christian faith here, but about the "cult" that calls itself the Roman Catholic Church.
Barney 15 | 1,472
4 Dec 2012 #28
but about the "cult" that calls itself the Roman Catholic Church.

If you don't have a religion your opinion is exceptionally silly, singling out one community from all the belief systems out there is discriminatory and bigoted. If you do have religion its equally silly as one set of beliefs can’t possibly trump another set.

Either way choosing the Catholic Church as one of the key revenue sources that needs to be tapped in order to solve the poverty issue in Poland is rather odd. I would have thought there were other ways to solve this issue but I'm not religious nor am I anti Catholic.
Ironside 49 | 10,375
4 Dec 2012 #29
was talking about the RCC as an institution, not about individuals.

. If the highest ranks of the church (including the last and the present pope) cover up hideous crimes within the organization, then they don't deserve respect at all.

t's not about the Christian faith here, but about the "cult" that calls itself the Roman Catholic Church.

Gee I will not point out obvious contractions in your post!
About Pope involvement in covering up some issues is only just a stipulation. The RCC enjoy autonomy in many things is not military organization nor gov!

Calling the RCC cult has nothing to do with alleged crimes, institution or the Pope.! It is plain and clear indication that you do not respect anybody and you have an axe to grind!

Ergo you do not deserve to be respected!
TheOther 6 | 3,818
4 Dec 2012 #30
obvious contractions in your post

There is none. The pedophiles within the church were covered by the highest ranks in the hierarchy; including but not limited to the popes.

Calling the RCC cult has nothing to do with alleged crimes, institution or the Pope.

I don't care what you call that institution. The only thing that counts is that the organization protected its criminal members.

alleged crimes

It is plain and clear indication that you do not respect anybody

I do not respect f*cking pedophiles. Do you? It certainly looks like.


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