Unfortunately, I have a terrible cold and I can't get into the discussion in detail (yes, my comment could be even longer, so be grateful lol), etc., gotta go to bed ;/// but I just have to comment on something because all of this is far more sickening than my freaking cold...
And ask yourself: if it was Civic Platform trying to push through this restriction on journalists, would you support it then, or oppose it
Haha-ha-HAHA! Observer... Allegedly president Komorowski proposed similar changes in law but of course
PiS... opposed those changes back then :D
I didn't invent it - on Friday night I suspended for a while my boycott of state TV and decided to check how the events in the Parliament and outside of it were shown and commented on TVP Info but there was this TV show "W tyle wizji" or sth like that and so I listened a bit and a right-wing journalist Rafał Ziemkiewicz had a fit of objectivity, apparently, because he pointed out that when president Komorowski wanted to introduce such changes in law restricting journalists in the Parliament PiS criticised him and opposed those changes :D
I don't know why that law wasn't passed - I guess it was voted down in the Parliament or maybe Komorowski pulled out of it after being criticised or maybe Ziemkiewicz twisted something - does anyone know? Because I don't remember this...
Intent behind those protests is to overthrow democratically elected, legal government of Poland or to provoke bloody clashes on the streets in Poland.
I see, Ironside, that you know everything about what "zaplute karły reakcji" are thinking :D
Where was any of this in their manifesto, alongside reducing the retirement age or the 500 child payment?
There wasn't, as far as I know.
Being democratically elected is no guarantee against authoritarianism - rather, democracies need to have mechanisms against it, such as the constitutional court that PiS now ignores and has by-passed.
Rather, it is a betrayal of the people to label them traitors for demanding their rights to dissent within the current law!
You're preaching to blind fanatics...
under which new law? never heard of anything like that - are you sure we live in the same country
Are you kidding? It was all over the news. Well, maybe not on the state TV, I don't know lol
Maybe you can't imagine it today
I wonder if that's the problem with PiS supporters - lacking imagination and knowledge about how such process develops over a time (dissolvement of democratic rights). I've discussed for years with Russians so I realise how such creeping process may go unnoticed by ordinary people... On the other hand in case of Poland it isn't such a slow process - it took Putin some time to get Russia to its current state and PiS is doing some kind of rather hasty Blitzkrieg.
The changes PiS is making (and there will be more and I suspect it's going to be worse and worse) will affect ordinary people only after some time and by then it is possible that they will be brainwashed to such an extent that they won't know things can be different, better. At least that's what I fear. Of course, at some point Poles may wake up, but I'm afraid it will only happen when the standard of living will get low enough, because as one Russian commented on the situation in Russia - "the worst kind of zombie is a zombie with a full stomach".
Yes I think it will stop there - if you think otherwise then in my eyes you are hysteric
I don't think he's being hysterical at all.
This action has been condemned by Polish Academy of Sciences, State Council of Nature Conservation, science departments of Universities of Wroclaw, Katowice, Krakow and Warsaw. So, basically, all major scientists in Poland. And UNESCO.
Then they must be "SOVIET SCUM
"!!!! :D There's no other way :))) All of them - demonstrators, journalists, the opposition, judges, prosecutors, scientists, environmentalists, artists, ordinary people and whoever is currently (I am not up to date recently lol) on the target of PiS populists :) We should round them all, pack them on a train and carat them to Kremlin Russia where they belong! Who needs scientists anyway, right... lol Or the opposition... and the rest of that scum :D
I mean that those demonstrators are Soviet bastards!
Then I am a "Soviet bastard" too, Ironside. And my parents who took part in Solidarity strikes during the commie times with ZOMO at the gates of the factory where they worked. My mum told me that once during a strike my grandma who lived in the countryside was told by a neighbour that he heard on the radio news of ZOMO shooting at workers in a factory in Kielce (probably it was some kind of histerical :) gossip) and my terrified grandma took a bus all the way to Kielce and found the factory where my mum was working. My mum was called out to the gate and there was my grandma - clutching the bars of the gate and crying like a baby because she thought they might have killed her daughter.
Btw, my grandma voted for PiS last year - for my mum and dad so they could have an earlier retirement lol My dad didn't go to the last elections, I guess mainly because he got pis$ed at PO for those changes in the retirement age (he was a somewhat reluctant PO voter).
But now he's even more pis$ed at PiS.
And as for my dad - he was a member of our local electoral committee on behalf of Solidarity during the first elections when Solidarity was allowed into the Parliament. I was a small kid back then - I wanted to watch "Isaura" or some other Latin American sope opera lol but my mum dragged me and my even smaller brother out in the rain (I was so angry lol) to the polling station. She said: "We're going to see daddy, it's important for him". I remember to this day the green curtains behind which people where voting in the local school and now I'm grateful that my mum took us "little citizens" to witness such a historical moment :)
There was also this lady who protested in front of the Parliament last Friday night - she was asked by a journalist how long was she standing here and she answered: "Since 1968" :) She meant that she took part in the demonstrations during the March events of 1968.
So why exactly are you calling us "Soviet scum", Ironside? Do you know who we are? What we think? What we care about? What is important for us? You clearly haven't got the slightest idea.
And what where you doing during March protests in 1968? Where were you during Solidarity strikes?
Where were you?
Who are you to call these people "Soviet scum"? What did you do for Poland? You don't even live here, do you?
What baffles me is the complete lack of understaning by PiS supporters of the intentions of people who go to KOD demonstrations and other people who criticise PiS. I don't understand this. It's seems to be pure fanatism. Another planet. Parallel universe. I didn't imagine that something like that could happen to Poles...
I don't see all people voting for PiS as some kind of "evil incarnate". So what is wrong with you, PiS supporters?
PiS must know that the restrictions work both ways - they might want to protest one day, when they are in opposition. But this doesn't seem to matter to them. Isn't that a bit chilling?
My thoughts exactly. I don't know whether they lack imagination and are that short-sighted or whether Kaczyński plans to be the next Putin... Piłsudski... or whatever.
You know what, during that TV show "W tyle wizji" on TVP Info they had a call from a viewer who expressed a sentiment that maybe it would be better to "pogonić" this whole Parliament - according to the caller we could use someone like Piłsudski to make "order"... :)) Ordnung muss sein... Who needs democracy... It's so messy :) Ziemkiewicz was talking to him, but he didn't crticise such an idea in any way. That was pretty worrying...
Oh, and you know what Ziemkiewicz in the same TV show called KOD protesters? "Kodomici" (kodomites). He said, smiling, that it was a "biblical reference". Not sure what he meant by that, the only association that came to my mind immediately was "sodomici" (sodomites). That's the level of our current state TV, it seems :( Unbelievable...
again - YOU ARE PARANOID - I think it comes with education - the more educated people are the more paranoid they get
Did you mean Jarosław Kaczyński, btw? ;D
those on the streets protesting are nothing more than Brussels puppets...
No, you are an idiot who has no idea, clearly.
The rest of your utter drivel is just too dumb to be taken seriously.
What a devastating argument, Ironside! :D You're such a great debater :)
if Russian wanted to invade Poland it would do it long ago - why wait?
Because Poland is a member of the EU and NATO, for example? For now, at least... ;P
The man also has no ideological principles at all, so whether he decides to support Poland in any way will depend only on what he can get from it (and very good terms for him), not whether it is the 'right' thing to do by Poland and her people.
That's my assessment of Trump too - he's a businessman. I don't think he cares about democracy, right or wrong, etc. He will care about American interest and that's it. If he thinks it's in American interest - he will side with Russia (and in result against Poland, as usual). I have little doubt about it, tbh...
Can't you wait till they meet/speak to each other till you make this statement?
You mean like when Bush looked Putin in the eye and "found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy"? :D
I honestly don't understand what's with this naivety of latest American presidents towards Putin.
Only in your eyes.
Not only in his eyes.
...of many Polish experts and journalists... You seem to underestimate Russia, gumishu... Obama already made that mistake.