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Poland PiS' unpopular welfare policies lead to spike in TV purchases and alcohol problems


jon357 63 | 14,110
15 Jun 2016  #1
Now why did I guess that (probably large screen) televisions are involved. A sudden 11% increase in purchases....

And alcohol too :-(

The worrying thing is the spike in child neglect cases. basically, this typically disastrous PiS policy is, as usual, achieving the opposite of what was intended.

"The number of our interventions related to alcohol abuse has increased dramatically," Piotr Grudziński, head of the local Family Support Centre in Włocławek, central Poland, told Onet.pl.
"When we compared the dates of our interventions with the schedule of the 500+ payments, unfortunately it turned out that such events occur after the money is paid out," he added.

thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/257080,New-child-benefits-boost-sales-in-Poland-report
smurf 39 | 1,982
15 Jun 2016  #2
A sudden 11% increase in purchases....

I'd blame Euro2016 for that though, who wants to watch HD football on a small screen?

typically disastrous PiS policy is, as usual, achieving the opposite of what was intended.

Their ineptitude has no limits, why can't the opposite team together and get a snap election called?
I don't understand why the opposition cannot come together to take these idiots down....but then you think about who is in the opposition and ya think....ah yea.

I've abandoned all hope regarding Polish politics
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
15 Jun 2016  #3
And a can of beer does help, doesn't it. Though I suspect vodka and spiritus have a bit more to do with it all. At least they'll be too drunk to vote next polling day. That or glued to the gogglebox.
Religio
18 Jun 2016  #4
{jon357 probably large screen) televisions are involved. A sudden 11% increase in purchases.... }

Do't you think the increase in telly sales has somethingto do with Euro 2016? It seems you are prepared to twist and distort every situation to bash the best Polish government since 2005-2007!

{smurf opposite team together and get a snap election called}
The opposite team namely the KODomici & Co.have albsolutely no programme whatsoever other than PiS-bashing. And the more they bash, the higher support for Poland's pro-Polish party climbs.
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
18 Jun 2016  #5
Do't you think the increase in telly sales has somethingto do with Euro 2016?

The analysts don't. Plus of course the increased interventions by social services due to alcohol.

These policies so far have done, as usual, the opposite of what was intended. And of course don't help those who really do need the money.
gumishu 11 | 4,987
18 Jun 2016  #6
And of course don't help those who really do need the money.

like who
Dougpol1 30 | 2,834
18 Jun 2016  #7
Single mothers with one child. Decent hard working people on a low salary, with one child. Children with alcoholic parents. This is Poland, remember?
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
18 Jun 2016  #8
You got their first Dougpol. Plus the homeless, people with learning disabilities who ae forced to spend their whole lives with their parents rather than independent living, the mentally ill.

And above all, single mothers with one child.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
18 Jun 2016  #9
they should give em food and biedronka vouchers instead
Dougpol1 30 | 2,834
18 Jun 2016  #10
Exactly. No shame in that at all. I was laid off due to oil price crash when my nipper was born. The DHSS dived straight in, with voucher this, voucher that.

The missus was well chuffed. And neither of us was at all humble or embarassed.
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
18 Jun 2016  #11
One issue is that it's just handing out payments without providing any sort of support structure.

they should give em food and biedronka vouchers instead

There are actually food coupons, though sometimes people sell them.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
18 Jun 2016  #12
The worrying thing is the spike in child neglect cases. basically, this typically disastrous PiS policy is, as usual, achieving the opposite of what was intended.

am not sure what was intention of this 500+
..to improve economical life of poor-then they achieved it.
to win votes- they achieved it
or to increase birth rate-doubt it will happen.but cant say for now if thay achieved what they were aiming
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
18 Jun 2016  #13
As gregy said, they have/are achieving what they intended but unlike him I also think they will achieve a higher birth rate. This policy is basically to help and encourage people with a more difficult financial situation with their family life and to encourage them to stay in the country and have those families rather than leaving and having them somewhere else. This was a problem for Poland, that their population was decreasing because people were leaving and those who didn't leave were reluctant to have children, in fear of not being able to provide for them. PO was supposed to make things better to convince people to stay, but they did nothing.

Of course some people will abuse the system - people will always abuse good intentions no matter where it is, but I think on the whole, for the majority who don't abuse it, still work hard and just use this as extra help for their kids, it was and is a great idea.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
18 Jun 2016  #14
but unlike him I also think they will achieve a higher birth rate.

low birth rate is cus of cultural not economical reason.i can assure you if you give 10 000 zl a month to all teenage girls in Poland,they will spent it on handbags and shoes not gonna suddenly start giveing birth to children.

poorer countries-more babies
richer countries -less babies
its all down to emantipation of women in the west who want to be managers and drive mercs not sitting in kitchen.
higher status of woman in society-less babies
got it?
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
18 Jun 2016  #15
It is not a cultural thing in Poland not to want to have children. Poland is a majority Catholic country and Catholicism encourages families and having children.
G (undercover)
18 Jun 2016  #16
Ordinary people are finally getting more money, revenues of small business are growing, no surprise that the crowd of parasites, who otherwise would put their dirty hands on that money, are launching the hate action.
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
19 Jun 2016  #17
am not sure what was intention of this 500+

I think it was a mix of genuine good intentions plus vote winning.

But long term, it alone won't make much difference. Half of me says it was good to give money, the other half says that it will probably make things worse for a significant number of the families that receive it.
kpc21 1 | 763
19 Jun 2016  #18
A new TV set bought for the money from the 500+ is nothing bad - the child will use it as well, and it's a single expense for a longer time, so the 500+ money will be still used also for other needs.

Consumption of alcohol is worse - but as someone mentioned, it may be connected with the Euro 2016. People buy more beer just for watching the football games. The increased sell of new TVs, by the way, too.

These data would tell more if it was stated, the sales of what sort of booze has actually increased. If it's beer, or vodka.

It is not a cultural thing in Poland not to want to have children. Poland is a majority Catholic country and Catholicism encourages families and having children.

It has more in common with the job market. When it's difficult to find a job, and easy to lose it when you get pregnant (with a prospect of not finding any after getting the child), it's understandable that people don't want to get children.

The problem is that giving money - in any case - usually doesn't solve the problem. Sometimes even makes the problem worse. Giving money makes real sense only when the problem is unsolvable, for example if someone is disabled and just not able to take up any job.
Religio
19 Jun 2016  #19
{jon357 - homeless, people with learning disabilities, the mentally ill,
single mothers with one child}

Remembner when PiS first announced 500+ and PO said why not add the first child as well. First they attacked it as budget-unfirendkly, then they tried to make it even more budget-unfriendly. You have done PO one better. If 500+ will overtax the budget, what would happen if it were extended to all the down and outers you have mentioned?
Ironside 47 | 9,613
19 Jun 2016  #20
to fake too stiff, pagan ritual,completely disconnected from attendants ceremony in byzantine beautifully interiors where people were afraid to sneeze.bollocks

Well, you're no a kid anymore and you're indeed talking bollocks. That says more about your prejudices and being an uncultivated culturally clog that thinks its clever than about reality it.

hell pain in the ass obligation to parents

Children of those partners whose relation to the religion seems more from cultural and social obligation rather then from any real attachment to the religion do suffer on such a affliction.

byzantine beautifully interio

Geez, were you an orthodox?

attended many services in the UK and there were great.guy walking among people,telling interesting things ect.not some smoking insesses,

Why do you need a church for that? Get few people, pay a dude, rent a place and he is gonna tell you all sorties that you like.

When it's difficult to find a job, and easy to lose it when you get pregnant (with a prospect of not finding any after getting the child), it's understandable that people don't want to get children.

You hit the nail on the head. Plus Ponzi scheme that when it comes to a system of an old age pension that exist in Poland that takes even more from people's pocket has something to do with people having less children.

Solution less taxes, and specially stopping taxing so high employees for hiring people.
Poland state pays for health services, education and allegedly pensions, in my opinion all those should be gradually cut off from the state budget, basing it on a age, like over 40' and under 40' that would be at least an honest and realistic assessment of the reality.

Plus the homeless, people with learning disabilities

/those cases should be left up for their families or charity that wouldn't be handled by a state and thus would work better and be cheaper.

And above all, single mothers with one child.

Actually that should get nothing from a state. Why? Why people that have nothing to do with her and her child are forced to pay on her and finance her bad choice or bad luck in life?
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
19 Jun 2016  #21
/those cases should be left up for their families or charity

They have been so far and they're still homeless, aren't they Ironside. So basically you've suggested something that we know already is useless.

Why people that have nothing to do with her and her child are forced to pay on her and finance her bad choice or bad luck in life?

That's the point of a welfare system. Avoiding the whole selfish thing.

One Polish idiot (he is an idiot and he is Polish) I was speaking to compared the taxation/welfare system to two families marooned on a desert island, one who work hard and one who are lazy. He said something like."why should the hard working family support the lazy one?"

That invited the obvious response about this really hard working guy, basically who's his daughter going to marry?

Think about that one.
Ironside 47 | 9,613
19 Jun 2016  #22
They have been so far and they're still homeless, aren't they Ironside. So basically you've suggested something that we know already is useless.

No, that is on the top of it what a state should do. As far as I know providing shelters for homeless is still obligation of a state or local governments (which is the same). Meaning taxing people on behalf of homeless and that using all these money for some token projects. While expecting people to pay for charity.

That's the point of a welfare system. Avoiding the whole selfish thing

If I want to be selfish it is my prerogative and if I want to be generous it is my prerogative as well, I don't need state to be generous for my money taking all the credit. A welfare system sucks, avoiding middle man that take his cut would be a better idea.

One Polish idiot (he is an idiot and he is Polish)

Why are you stressing it? What so important about him being Polish? I don't know, there are many people in Poland that ain't Polish.

I was speaking to compared the taxation/welfare system to two families marooned on a desert island, one who work hard and one who are lazy

That silly, to emulate life there should be two more dudes with guns that would say - look at this poor family they need your help give us 2/3 of your harvest and we'll sort it out (or else showing guns).

basically who's his daughter going to marry?

Those two dude with guns would screw her for more of that stolen food. In fact the only option that hard working family has, is to eliminate those two thugs and employ the lazy family or they all are doomed.

Something that wouldn't happen if all people would have guns.
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
19 Jun 2016  #23
No, that is on the top of it what a state should do

Evidently not very well considering the number of Poles who beg for money in the streets of Warsaw. And you say their families should be responsible....

Really, you fail to understand the whole concept of a civilised welfare state with socialised healthcare and a proper safety net. As do PiS.
Ironside 47 | 9,613
19 Jun 2016  #24
As do PiS.

I think that PiS would be very much in agreement with you on those. You seem to be highly ignorant as to PiS.

Evidently not very well considering the number of Poles who beg for money in the streets of Warsaw. And you say their families should be responsible....

People don't have jobs and money they struggle, many are just give up and wonders the streets dirking. Some who work 27 seven days a week to pay all bills and support family don't have a mind to bring in an old uncle who has a dirking problem and would sell a couch under them to finance his addiction.

State takes money that are supposed to use to help that uncle and does fat sweet all.
Solution, less taxes more money and time on the hand of that nephew and I bet he'll be willing to part with some of those money to pay for charity that would take his uncle from the street.

you fail to understand the whole concept of a civilised welfare state with socialised healthcare and a proper safety net.

I do understand it to the T. It is legalized extortion where government sent people with guns to enforce it.
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
19 Jun 2016  #25
You seem to be highly ignorant as to PiS.

Less so than yourself who has no direct experience of them.

many are just give up and wonders the streets dirking

Hard to know what you mean here, however it looks like you're trying to oversimplify the causes of poverty and social exclusion.

I do understand it to the T. It is legalized extortion where government sent people with guns to enforce it

So in fact you don't understand it at all.
Ironside 47 | 9,613
19 Jun 2016  #26
So in fact you don't understand it at all.

In your opinion and you know what they say about opinions.

Less so than yourself who has no direct experience of them.

Well, you're prejudiced against them for three reason that have nothing to do with their social policy and plans. It means you don't care about their social polices you just like to score another point in your ideological war against them.

Hard to know what you mean here

Oh don't give me that, it is easy to guess, after all before 18th century people were writing in English every which way and communicate no problem..
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
19 Jun 2016  #27
Well, you're prejudiced against them for three reason that have nothing to do with their social policy and plans

Is that a fact? Have you actually lived under a PiS administration? No.

Oh don't give me that, it is easy to guess, after all before 18th century people were writing in English every which way and communicate no problem..

The phrase is unfortunately not in clear English. There are no problems at all about making mistakes in English (or Polish) providing the context is clear and the thinking logical. However that sentence is neither.
Ironside 47 | 9,613
19 Jun 2016  #28
Is that a fact?

I know what is your beef with PiS and I know what is PiS stance on welfare and social safety net. Its enough to add those two.

The phrase is unfortunately not in clear English

Geez./....FFS! OK.
Don't tell me you couldn't understand what I meant due to misspellings. There was no standard English or standard spelling before 18th century. Rightly called a century of snobs.

Don't tell me you couldn't understand what I meant here:

People don't have jobs and money they struggle, many are just give up and wonders the streets dirking

Causes of poverty are simple - no jobs, no income, health issues, mental problems, addiction, lack of stability and support due to split families, single parenthood and that is due to people not upholding values that actually works and have been working for generations.
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
19 Jun 2016  #29
and I know what is PiS stance on welfare and social safety net. Its enough to add those two.

Their stance is chaotic and shamelessly populist.

values that actually works and have been working for generations.

Unfortunately, since poverty was at a far higher level in your 'good old days' I think we can say that those 'values' you mention weren't actually working at all.
Religio
19 Jun 2016  #30
{jon357 - forced to spend their whole lives with their parents}

In spite of forces attemtping to atomise the family, there is actually much to be said for a loving nuclear family: kids, parents and grandparetns, possibly the odd cousin, maiden aunt or widowed uncle all living under one roof. The provides an opportuntiy for experience-swopping and family integration. Of course, sometimes it doesn't work out. But do single parenthoods or just kids & parents always work out? Totalitarian syystems tend to try and break up the nuclear family (eg Komsomol), pit kids against their parents, seen as upholders of traditon, in order to brainwash youngsters all the easier.


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