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Poland's PIS party and the UK Tories


Dougpol1 32 | 2,673
3 Oct 2018 #1
Watching the conservative conference. What a bunch of smug tossers.
The MP now introducing the prime minister is talking exactly the same as Polish ministers.
"We are a noble nation, rousing ourselves like a strong man after sleep.."
"Do not be afraid to self-govern.." Etc etc etc.
"Trading around the world"
"We are a global player"
Our freedom! Our borders, our sovereignty.."

PIS and the conservatives are clearly one of a kind and first past the post in dumbness.
Off their heads with their outdated rhetoric. Every country gets the leaders it deserves and i for one am sick of them. I wish I could join John Cleese who has famously decamped a desert island.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,535
3 Oct 2018 #2
The MP now introducing the prime minister is talking exactly the same as Polish ministers.

Shouldn't Poland effectuate Polexit then and unite with Britain in the next move? Let's drop off Scotland, and let's urge the NI to join the Republic of Ireland and let's give Wales more autonomy. But here in Poland we wouldn't want your gracious Queen to become the head of such a common state. She is simply too old for the job. And we don't want that clown Charles, her son, to replace her either. Our Great Leader Chairman Jarosław Kaczyński would be the best candidate to wear the crown instead.

Deal done?
OP Dougpol1 32 | 2,673
3 Oct 2018 #3
I'm sorry Ziemowit, I would like to negotiate all of this - it's clearly in our national interests - but you have to take our Queen as well. Even though you've already got one, and almost as old:)
Atch 16 | 3,417
3 Oct 2018 #4
Sounds quite good to me. But I do think you should reconsider giving Queenie a job as she would make a lovely addition to the Royal Palace at Wilanów; every palace needs somebody royal installed. Charlie could be made head of the Botanical Gardens as he's very keen on plants. I suggest housing him in Łazienki so that he's close to work and he could do a few guided tours in his spare time. Camilla could take over the Pride of Poland thingee as she's very horsey and it's going downhill at the moment, needs somebody new at the helm. William could be King after Queenie departs Heavenward. Their roles would be purely symbolic of course as they presently are in the UK. What do you think?

Even though you've already got one, and almost as old:)

I will permit myself a hearty lol!!

Incidentally did anybody see Theresa May or Tessie as I think of her, making a Holy Show of herself as we'd say in Ireland, at the Tory Party Conference with her dance moves. Cringeworthy in the extreme.
RubasznyRumcajs 5 | 488
3 Oct 2018 #5
Poland is a republic, and it will always be.
Queenie and other parasites can prey on British Taxpayers, not on Polish ones (that ones living in Poland).
Atch 16 | 3,417
3 Oct 2018 #6
What a wonderful sense of humour you have. I'm sure it greatly enriches your life :)
Ziemowit 13 | 4,535
3 Oct 2018 #7
giving Queenie a job as she would make a lovely addition to the Royal Palace at Wilanów

The idea sounds really nice to me. I am a royalist myself and would welcome back a monarch as head of state for Poland in place of presidents who will never be able to display even one tenth of dignity that a monarch posesses. After all we had been a monarchy for more than 800 years. The natural and historical choice for Poland would have been someone from the royal family of Saxony (if such family does exists).

Theresa May or Tessie as I think of her, making a Holy Show of herself as we'd say in Ireland, at the Tory Party Conference with her dance moves.

Theresa

Did you mean this "Dancing Queen Theresa May"? Tanecznym krokiem ku (twardemu) Brexitowi ...
mafketis 29 | 10,322
3 Oct 2018 #8
in place of presidents who will never be able to display even one tenth of dignity that a monarch posesses

I used to think that a monarch could be a good temporary thing for Poland as a symbol of national unity above petty partisan divisions (since non-partisan dignity is as alien to Polish politicans as it flying to Jupiter under their own power). It worked very well in Spain until a few years ago (where it's now outlived its usefulness though they're still hanging around so there's that to deal with...).
jon357 69 | 18,457
3 Oct 2018 #9
If you've got one already, that's fine, people are used to the system, and in most places it works well. If you haven't got one, there has to be a damn good reason for getting one, and ambitious politicians rarely want to give way to people who do the job because of a sense of duty rather than personal ambition.
Jaskier
3 Oct 2018 #10
Well, I like the idea of having someone who doesn't have to suck up to different influential ppl and the electorate. The problem comes up when they are really not the right ppl for the job and yet you can't get rid of them...
Atch 16 | 3,417
4 Oct 2018 #11
But the 'job' doesn't involve any political power. The few monarchies remaining in the developed world are all constitutional ones. It's really just a diplomatic role and the Brits fill that very nicely. Queenie has always done a tremendously good job and Prince Philip's many gaffes and faux pas have provided great entertaiment over the years :) William and Kate are ok, although she's terribly ordinary and lower middle class, I still see her as a parlourmaid dressed up in Her Ladyship's clothes. Harry and Meghan are nauseating.

A Royal family of Poland would be very nice. I nominate Adam Zamoyski (sic), the author and historian. You see the thing is that as Poland had an elected monarch, you could have anybody really, it doesn't have to be somebody from a particular family with a claim, just a suitable member of the old Polish nobility. Also, apart from installing him in a palace somewhere, he doesn't need more than a basic salary plus expenses. No need for a big civil list with the world and his wife on it. A well-chosen Polish Royal family would do far more for the country's image than the clumsy, lumpen-footed members of the present diplomatic corps.

I was in Łazienki on Sunday for the last Chopin concert of the season and a nice Royal dignitary opening or closing the proceedings would have added a lovely touch :)) Seriously though, it was such a beautiful occasion, the very best of what Poland has to offer, it was a true Polish Golden Autumn day with the blue sky and the sunshine, and the music of Chopin wafting on the air, the romance of bygone Polish days.........
mafketis 29 | 10,322
5 Oct 2018 #12
The few monarchies remaining in the developed world are all constitutional ones

Yeah, that's the idea. One problem you may have noticed in Poland is that there is a lack of common ground among Poles and a lack of what might be called a uniting figure (that all Polish people can identify with). JPII was the closest, but he didn't live in Poland and he's long dead.

The reconstituted Spanish monarchy was immensely valuable in navigating away from dictatorship toward democracy in that country and helped preserve the still fragile civil order when it was most in danger (1981 coup attempt). It later went to sh|t after 2008 but the monarchy was a crucial piece of the puzzle that helped Spain move forward.

A similar figure in Poland might have prevented the worst of the ideological warfare over the past in Poland. The time for that has now past, but it might have worked if begun between 1994-1998 or so.
Tacitus 2 | 1,461
5 Oct 2018 #13
The problem with monarchies is - aside from the legitimacy problem in an otherwise democratic society - that you are stuck with both the good and bad ones, and that you can never be sure how future monarchs turn out. Sure Queen Elizabeth and Carlos II are/were pretty great, but can the same necessarily be said about their children, or grandchildren? Why should one idiot rule over me just because his great-grandfather was a decent guy? At least with our politician, I know they are in a position of power because they got elected (even if not by me).
mafketis 29 | 10,322
5 Oct 2018 #14
You're not the person I expected to put forth a stirring defense of Viktor Orban, but.... politics makes strange bedfellows....

The model shouldn't be England or Spain, but maybe more Scandinavia and its very low key monarchs...
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,024
5 Oct 2018 #15
PIS and the conservatives are clearly one of a kind and first past the post in dumbness.

What on earth are you blithering on about? PiS are closer to Labour in their policies than the Conservatives, if anything. The Conservative Party is conservative only in name. They have nothing to do with conservatism. There are no conservative options in the UK. Neither the Conservatives or Labour are socially conservative like PiS. The only similarity I can think of in either of those parties are the socialist reforms being put in place by PiS, that as I said, are more similar to what Labour would do than the Tories. Forget what dancing Theresa said up on the podium, it's meaningless.
OP Dougpol1 32 | 2,673
5 Oct 2018 #16
What on earth are you blithering on about?

What are YOU blathering about? The two parties share the same xenophobia, the same soundbites, the same irritating self-congratulary smugness of the politicians. I was talking about values and ethics.I never said the economic viewpoint is the same.

PIS doesn't have any economic ideas - apart from handing out my taxes to people who are more lazy than I am that is.
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,024
5 Oct 2018 #17
The two parties share the same xenophobia, the same soundbites, the same irritating self-congratulary smugness of the politicians.

Soundbites don't mean sh-t. The Tories are not xenophobic, they are just playing to the further right side of their voters, to keep them happy. They haven't done anything to stop immigration and they won't. I doubt even Brexit will stop the inflow of immigration. As for self-congratulatory smugness, you seem to be describing politicians in general there, it isn't just PiS.
OP Dougpol1 32 | 2,673
5 Oct 2018 #18
I agree with everything you say there WP. Particulary hate PIS though and everything they stand for.
lesser 4 | 1,311
5 Oct 2018 #19
@Dougpol1
Funny how much you dislike those torries. They basically moved to the left side in every single aspect I can think about. Perhaps you are living in the past? What is the difference between both mayor parties in the UK according to you?
jon357 69 | 18,457
5 Oct 2018 #20
Particulary hate PIS though and everything they stand for.

Both blinkered and utterly unprincipled. They main difference is thatr the Tories can get away with more actual damage whereas PIS can gat away with more actual lies.
OP Dougpol1 32 | 2,673
5 Oct 2018 #21
the difference between both mayor parties in the UK according to you?

You really want to know? The conservatives are just that - spreading the lie that they must conserve capital for the next generation, which means their voting base, the propertied classes, whilst trying to cut every non- essential service they can, or at least to outsource it - which is why we have regular scandals such as Northamptonshire county council being unable to set a budget (technically bankrupt) and the latest news - the body-parts scandal, where a hospital outsourced the disposal of human body parts, with the result that there was no disposal...They are also the party that babbles on about the evils of scroungers aka foreigners, and how sovereignty must never be relinquished, even though we kept the pound, our language, our sausage, and our queenie. Load of bollocks, and Brexit is clearly driven by this Tory inspired xenophobia. A lot of the uneducated working class vote Tory, just as the same group in Poland vote for PIS, mistaking platitudes as a short term fix, instead of actually wanting to fix the root causes - which are lack of inner city investment and high business taxes. Probably the cities are finished anyway as for commerce and shopping and the Tories have washed their hands of responsibility.

Labour introduced a working wage of 210 pounds a week for a working couple with two kids - meaning that below that threshold zero tax was payable. That enraged the Tories. Basically the conservatives are typically a party of austerity, and try their utmost to make damn sure that none of the wealth dribbles down through the lower middle classes. Of course they have dangled the carrot of home ownership in the past as obtainable for all - but that was purely to abdicate any social responsibility, and a large percentage of poorer home buyers lost their homes in the repossessions of the early 90s.

The unemployment rate is at the lowest since the 1970s simply because the Tories have massaged the figures, by removing the right of millions to claim unemployment benefit per se.Ted Heath was seen as good egg (nobody knew he was an alleged kiddy fiddler) but the rest of the Tory gang should have taken the slow boat to China.

Labour are more radical, a bit like your eccentric college professor, ready to experiment to try to spend to sow the seeds of growth - definitely not handing out 500 zl childcare, or taking away the incentive to work - as PIS have done, quite the opposite in fact. Maybe higher tax thresholds aren't a vote winner in Poland, because people would actually have to declare their earnings to qualify for tax credits. Ask any large employer you like in Tri-City about the damage PIS has done and they will be happy to offer a long list.
TheWizard - | 236
6 Oct 2018 #22
In Australia we are held captive by the ' conservative ' morons. Watch us throw off these worthless cretins next year, hopefully others will follow.
G (undercover)
7 Oct 2018 #23
i for one am sick of them.

Aren't you just sick of everything ? Isn't it a sign that perhaps you simply have some... issues... ?
OP Dougpol1 32 | 2,673
7 Oct 2018 #24
Following me here now? Issues, you said?
And my thread was about the stupid rhetoric of the British government. I have no problem being annoyed on occasion with my own people, whilst for clowns like you , the sun always shines out of Poland's arse.

Which is exactly why things don't improve.
G (undercover)
7 Oct 2018 #25
I have no problem being annoyed on occasion with my own people,

You seem to be "annoyed" all the time, quite likely you need to visit a certain kind of doctor.

Which is exactly why things don't improve.

- they do improve. Just because you don't like it here, doesn't mean you are right, you are just a stinking immigrant without any will to assimilate. Instead you would like it to transform into your expectations, with "gays", Pakistani pedophiles running free, "nice to see you" crap etc. Guess what, it won't :)))


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