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PiS to impose blanket retail tax in Poland


Roger5 1 | 1,455
21 Jan 2016 #121
And you cannot beat a good British private school

But a good British private school can beat you. Whack!
kpc21 1 | 763
21 Jan 2016 #122
Baffled as why they all finish class by 12:30/2:30, a lot sooner than when I was a lad in the UK.

If a British school needs more time to teach the students the same skills (or even less of them) than a Polish school, then it's rather difficult to call it a better one...
polishinvestor 1 | 362
21 Jan 2016 #123
Thats the point, they dont teach to the same standard. Fee paying schools in Poland seem to have an even lower standard thanbregular. Common sense seems to be lacking more than anything else. A lot of the times you can predict outcomes to events and some people are genuinely surprised when things happen the wsy they do. Its like a slow moving car crash.
kpc21 1 | 763
22 Jan 2016 #124
As far as I know, the children graduating from schools in Poland have much wider knowledge than those from the schools in the UK... But maybe I am mistaken, and it also depends on the type of school, in case of which, whereas everything looks more or less the same in Poland (very strong dominancy of public schools - the differences appear only at the level of secondary schools, where you have some with better and some with worse results, chosen by students with different abilities and ambitions; the church and the private ones doesn't matter almost at all, although some of the church ones also have very good results), in the UK the variety is very wide.
NocyMrok
22 Jan 2016 #125
in the UK the variety is very wide.

In the UK 20%(highest in Europe) of people aged below 25 end their education prematurely. They don't have to work and can live off benefits from govt. That's the reason of a general dumbing down of Brits as a nation.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
22 Jan 2016 #126
Baffled as why they all finish class by 12:30/2:30, a lot sooner than when I was a lad in the UK.

Actually, they get a lot more done in the same time. From my observations, by the time they hit 10, they're ahead of their UK peers in the core subjects.

The only problem is that they're lacking somewhat in soft skills, and the gap grows as time goes on. But in general, their education is very efficient.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
22 Jan 2016 #127
treated as untrustworthy

123 years of partitions and half a century of Nazi/Soviet enslavement have taught Poles that the name of the game is to outfox the system. That has been carried over from PRL to III RP. There's a lack of long-term planning and thinking amongst many Polish businessmen who often seem to espouse the "grab the money and run" philosophy, flitting from one venture to another rather than re-investing and building up the business they have already developed.

That's why a massive education campaign is needed to teach entrepreneurship, market planning, logistics, the importance of PR, the need for original Polish designs, in-country production, recognisable brands and logos. It seems Morawiecki is on this general track but will he be able to put it into practice???
Harry
22 Jan 2016 #128
That's why a massive education campaign is needed to teach entrepreneurship, market planning, logistics, the importance of PR, the need for original Polish designs, in-country production, recognisable brands and logos.

An excellent idea. And then when Poland has paid to educate the businessmen of tomorrow they can move to Slovakia and run businesses there that are aimed at Polish customers but which aren't burdened by the insane taxes imposed by PISed-up economics.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
22 Jan 2016 #129
2% tax to all retail businesses in Poland

The brunt of the tax burden will be borne by foreign biggies... Initially there was talk of taxing on the basis of shop floor area but the latest is that a shop's turnover will be the criterion. Small shops will pay less and bigger ones will pay more. That will make the corner family-owned shops more competitive unless the biggies start raisiing their prices to pass the tax on to customers. The law should therefore include a monitoring mechanism -- spot inspections perhaps. A supermarket that inordinately raises its prices could even face losing its retail licence.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
22 Jan 2016 #130
A supermarket that inordinately raises its prices could even face losing its retail licence.

Polonius, don't you realise that supermarkets can simply ask their suppliers to cut their prices? That means that suppliers need to make savings elsewhere, which means that the people that get the product to the supermarket will be squeezed. The supermarkets aren't going to lose any money here - it's the ordinary Pole that stands to lose.

All this talk of price fixing and so on only harms the economy in the long run.

Polonius, if you want to encourage Polish businesses, then you have to make the business environment as attractive as possible for them. All the regulatory burdens of new taxes does nothing to help them and instead encourages them to base their business elsewhere.
Harry
22 Jan 2016 #131
Small shops will pay less and bigger ones will pay more.

Unless, of course, each till at a supermarket is registered as a separate shop which rents display space from the mother company, meaning that the mother company doesn't sell anything at all and so isn't subject to the retail tax and each company that does sell things will have a turnover below that of the average cornershop.

And of course the internet shops who have all moved to Slovakia will not pay any retail tax at all. Or any income tax in Poland. Or any ZUS. And their staff won't pay any income tax in Poland. Or any ZUS. It's all a masterly piece of PISed-up economics.

A supermarket that inordinately raises its prices could even face losing its retail licence.

Back to price controls again? Really? How many times does it need to be explained to you why those don't work?
polishinvestor 1 | 362
22 Jan 2016 #132
A supermarket that inordinately raises its prices could even face losing its retail licence.

Is it a crime to raise prices? In a free market the seller, if he can find a buyer, should be able to sell at the price he deems fit. Now if the government wants to subside lower prices then thats another matter, but I dont belive they do. Or at least I dont believe they are willing to spend their own money doing it.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
22 Jan 2016 #133
free market

A sovereign state can enact anti-monopoly legislation, price ceilings, taxes, tax breaks, special ecoomic zones and other mechanisms as needed, free market or not.
Why is it you always seem to favour and defend the interersts of the already filthy rich capitalists and other banks and Biedronkas rather than Poland's hero -- the little guy.
Harry
22 Jan 2016 #134
A sovereign state can enact anti-monopoly legislation, price ceilings, taxes, tax breaks, special ecoomic zones and other mechanisms as needed

Not if those are contrary to European law or international agreements.

the little guy.

That's precisely the guy who is going to get screwed by PISed-up economics.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
22 Jan 2016 #135
A sovereign state can enact anti-monopoly legislation, price ceilings, taxes, tax breaks, special ecoomic zones and other mechanisms as needed, free market or not.

Except Poland can't, because she signed up to the European Union which contains a lot of law designed to prevent distorting the free market. In this case, everything has to be in accordance with European law, which is why Hungary backed off on the supermarket tax.

That's precisely the guy who is going to get screwed by PISed-up economics.

Indeed. Let's not forget that the "small Polish business owner" will have no scruples about increasing their prices by the amount of the large supermarket tax and then blaming the government, even though they'll actually pay far less tax.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
22 Jan 2016 #136
Because the little guy is hell bent on lining his own pockets and not declaring earnings to avoid paying taxes, so the government doesnt benefit from his good fortune. So there is nothing to build on. The corporates at least stick to the rules. Any loopholes used as loopholes the government allows and chooses to leave open.
dolnoslask
22 Jan 2016 #137
"Because the little guy is hell bent on lining his own pockets", People giving private English lessons cash in hand is a prime example.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
22 Jan 2016 #138
Quite. Many "patriotic" Poles see no harm in this sort of behaviour and regard it as their duty to avoid as much taxes as possible. One of the best things that PO did was introduce the "receipt lottery" - which has encouraged a lot of people to ask for receipts from industries traditionally associated with tax dodging such as hairdressers, beauticians and so on.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
22 Jan 2016 #139
There are millions of self employed Poles under declaring and even more paying paid cash in hand. The two often go hand in hand together since lower wages mean higher profits, the profits must be under declared, then both employer and employee happy but urzad skarbowy cheated. This is of course why you are guilty until you prove your innocence at the Polish tax office.
dolnoslask
22 Jan 2016 #140
"This is of course why you are guilty until you prove your innocence at the Polish tax office." Absolutely right if I get anyone to do any work for me I make sure I get a proper faktura (receipt) , and that includes the chimney sweep.
Roger5 1 | 1,455
22 Jan 2016 #141
hairdressers, beauticians

Car mechanics must be the worst tax dodgers.

People giving private English lessons cash in hand is a prime example.

I've lost count of the number of times people have said, "Oh, it's OK, I don't need an invoice". They get one anyway. Don't they realise how much better public services could be if everyone paid their dues?

receipt lottery

They need to have better and more prizes, but yes, a good idea.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
22 Jan 2016 #142
Absolutely right if I get anyone to do any work for me I make sure I get a proper faktura (receipt) , and that includes the chimney sweep.

Likewise. I get paid a salary and can't dodge taxes, so I'm not helping others to do so!
polishinvestor 1 | 362
22 Jan 2016 #143
That is you dolnyslask, you are from the UK and thats the way things tend to be done, most prefer to dogadac sie. And dont even get me started on guarantees!

Anyway the receipt lottery is being expanded to include doctors. I cannot remember when I last got a receipt from a doctor when I have gone private.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
22 Jan 2016 #144
distorting the free market

It's the biggies that are distoring the "free" market by denying the little guy of equal opportuitnies. They can couch it in all kinds of nice-sounding but deceptive euphemisms -- market-friendly, single market, level playing fiedl, equal opportunities, etc, etc. ad nauseam -- bur the fact remains it's the moneybags and Heil Merkels that rule the root. The rich get richer and the poor get shafted....
jon357 71 | 20,422
22 Jan 2016 #145
It's all a masterly piece of PISed-up economics.

I think we will see a lot of this as the business environment is further ruined by the PiSites. The real victims are the low-paid.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
22 Jan 2016 #146
Their is a lack of entrepreneurship amongst Poles, they are often too cautious and lack ambition because of it. Foreign companies move into spaces where they see a gap in the market. If the Poles had filled it they wouldnt be able to compete to the same manner. A lot of the time I find Poles worry about getting paid today, but not what happens tomorrow.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
22 Jan 2016 #147
The real victims are the low-paid.

Indeed. The plan to force shops to shut on Sundays is really going to hurt a lot of them, especially those working for employers known for their flexibility such as Auchan. But PiS doesn't care about them - when you look at their candidates for elections, they're all high flying doctors, lawyers, etc. For some reason, they don't tend to give the "ordinary man" a chance.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
22 Jan 2016 #148
PiS doesn't care about

PiS doesn't care as much about the niche groups Delph is constantly fishing out, but about the nation as a whole. Most Poles would like a Sunday off.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
22 Jan 2016 #149
You're right, PiS couldn't care less about...

- policemen, firemen, doctors, nurses, teachers, bus drivers, tram drivers, priests, waiters, bar staff, hotel receptions, hotel cleaners, taxi drivers, all staff on trains, all staff at airports, pilots and cabin crew, TV staff, journalists, power station and transmission network staff, anybody who works in production facilities that can't be shut down once a week, teachers on school trips, teachers working with weekend students, mountain rescuers, builders (many projects work 24/7), radio workers, breakdown/recovery drivers, chefs, those working on ships, border guards, customs officers, zookeepers, ticket sellers, lifeguards, animation staff, cinema workers, entertainers, customs agents, those working in currency exchange offices, those that work in 24 hour post offices, petrol station workers, system administrators, helpdesk workers and many, many more?

They only care about a single niche group of workers. Why does the above group not get Sunday off as well?

If you were at least logical and suggesting that *everything* non-emergency should be closed, then at least it would be consistent.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
22 Jan 2016 #150
non-emergency should be closed

You forgot the bloke that dresses as a bear in Zakopane to take photos with and the cotton candy vendors in parks and zoos.
What number of percentage of the workforce do all your numerous exceptions amount to? Since you belong to the "economics is everything" camp, the economy

would surely rise if all Poles were forced to work on weekends. Maybe those directly concerned should be consulted rather than thrashing this out on an internet forum?


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