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THE PARTYS OVER... NO MORE EUROS FOR POLAND'S ROADS


gumishu 11 | 5,692
1 Feb 2013 #31
the claim that they are the most expensive in europe
ive seen absolutely no evidence of it
and i am a roadgeek

can you read Polish ismell, i provided a link in Polish - google does a lousy job and I haven't found anything in English
ismellnonsense - | 118
1 Feb 2013 #32
ah
yes i can

its an old article
i admit to not being familiar with the construction of that section of motorway

i actually have been on the motorway in question in macedonia
and it is terrible
it wasnt built like they say
but rather they turned an existing road into one direction of the motorway
and the second direction was built new in the cheapest way

horrible place

generally though
whats been happening in poland is that the contractors thought they could make easy money from stupid poles
stupid poles loaded the contracts in their favour and then stupid poles made them stick very strictly to the contracts
foreign companies desperate for easy money signed without checking
et voila

i do like the gddkia strategy
it is absolutely ruthless and they are not sympathetic at all
a great example was with covec
they thought they could use cheap chinese labour
they didnt count on the poles refusing to sell cheap materials
p3undone 8 | 1,135
1 Feb 2013 #33
Gumishu,I wasn't making a point,I was just curios.

Grzegorz,how long has the EU been helping with infrastructure?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
1 Feb 2013 #34
you can blame solidarity for that
and the general socialist leanings of poland

the other issue is that people wanted NOW what germany has NOW
so
foolish people i could agree

Partially yes but It doesn't mean we have to go even further into this madness, so that's why I'm happy, the faster it collapse, the better, it must get worse before it gets better.
p3undone 8 | 1,135
1 Feb 2013 #35
Grzegrz,did you see my question?
gumishu 11 | 5,692
1 Feb 2013 #36
Grzegorz,how long has the EU been helping with infrastructure?

since 2004
p3undone 8 | 1,135
1 Feb 2013 #37
Gumishu,thanks,I'm only asking questions so I can learn more about Poland.Don't worry,I don't want to interfere with your Politics.I don't like it when foreigners try to interfere in Americas,so I don't do this.
ismellnonsense - | 118
1 Feb 2013 #38
since 2004

earlier really
through different vehicles

it must get worse

cant imagine moustaches and babcias agreeing to that
p3undone 8 | 1,135
1 Feb 2013 #39
Ismellnonsense,have a lot of roads been put in,thus far?The EU sounds like our Federal government.
gumishu 11 | 5,692
1 Feb 2013 #40
earlier really
through different vehicles

sorry to burst your buble but earlier it was really an insingnificant help -no comparison to what happens now since 2004
Ziemowit 13 | 4,397
1 Feb 2013 #41
But Poland’s Regional Development Minister Elzbieta Bienkowska said the European Commission’s decision was “incomprehensible” and “curious.” She insisted that the case highlighted the efficiency of the Polish authorities in cracking down on suspected abuses.

“Poland is the injured party in this case, because it is Polish investigators who discovered that there may have been – in two or three cases – a price-fixing deal by contractors,” Bienkowska told the Polish Radio public broadcaster.


Though BieĊ„kowska has been stressing the role of the Polish authorities in cracking down on suspected abuses, the crucial moment in the affair for the Commission may be that among "those charged are 10 current and former managers for large construction firms and one highways agency director".
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
1 Feb 2013 #42
cant imagine moustaches and babcias agreeing to that

Did they agree with VAT increase and 10.000 other bullshyts ? IT's not that Poland is some kind of crystal people's democracy.
ismellnonsense - | 118
1 Feb 2013 #43
Ismellnonsense,have a lot of roads been put in,thus far?The EU sounds like our Federal government.

compared to what existed before 2004
you really cant compare
some of it isn't eu funded though
but a lot is

we're speaking about a country that had barely any highways
to a country that is rapidly completing them between all major cities

the thing with the eu is that they want to achieve a single market
so this money is part of it
eventually the continent will be one big market
same rules same conditions
and never again war (the most important)

She insisted that the case highlighted the efficiency of the Polish authorities in cracking down on suspected abuses.

yes
this is true
they seem to really be on the ball when it comes to the use of public cash on road infrastructure
i think though
this case is also related to the crying and whining made by strabag and others
p3undone 8 | 1,135
1 Feb 2013 #44
Ismellnonsense,This is where it reminds me of our federal Government.It will be Like the States if it becomes a single market.How do you feel about the loss of sovereignty?Just curios as to the position of different Poles in this regard.
smurf 39 | 1,981
1 Feb 2013 #45
the country does not exist? Or is being occupied?

So the occupiers built no roads? Zero?
I don't really get it.

And how come the roads down where I live in Silesia are, for the most part, quite good?......except Myslowice (dump)
I've been led to believe that local govt reinvested tax money into local infrastructure, while the rest of Poland didn't bother and that's why infrastructure is so bad.
gumishu 11 | 5,692
1 Feb 2013 #46
gddkia is doing a lousy job - they produce lousy documentation - and they get charged by the building companies for this lousy documentation
bullfrog 6 | 602
1 Feb 2013 #47
And how come the roads down where I live in Silesia are, for the most part, quite good?......except Myslowice (dump)

Because these roads were built by the Germans before the war..
ismellnonsense - | 118
1 Feb 2013 #49
gddkia is doing a lousy job - they produce lousy documentation - and they get charged by the building companies for this lousy documentation

dont believe the propoganda

the truth is that the documentation is precise
staggeringly so
the building companies attempt to cut corners
and the gddkia is simply not paying them as a result

poland has actually been very successful at preventing foreign companies from making easy profits from roads here

Ismellnonsense,This is where it reminds me of our federal Government.It will be Like the States if it becomes a single market.How do you feel about the loss of sovereignty?Just curios as to the position of different Poles in this regard.

as long as the eu contains an exit clause (it does)
as long as the parliament can vote to leave (by repealing the act of accession)
then it is no issue
bullfrog 6 | 602
1 Feb 2013 #50
gddkia is doing a lousy job - they produce lousy documentation - and they get charged by the building companies for this lousy documentation

The whole staff of GDDKIA should be sacked and a transparent re hiring process initiated. They are a bunch of incompetent people who have cosily coopted each other mostly pre 1990 through family/friends connections.
ismellnonsense - | 118
1 Feb 2013 #51
if they were so incompetent
how did so much get built so quickly?

dont listen to the lies spread by foreign building companies who have a vested interest in seeing the gddkia fall
bullfrog 6 | 602
1 Feb 2013 #52
if they were so incompetent
how did so much get built so quickly?

Quickly? You must be joking.. In 1990 (fall of communism), Poland had 381 km of motorways. 14 years later, they had added a grand total of...400 km (30 km/year!!), total length was 781 km. By 2010, there were still only 1560 km (just over 100 km/ year). It is only under the tremendous pressure generated by Euro 2012 that they speeded up in 2011 and 2012 with a new total of 2509 km end 2012. Compare this to the rate at which motorways were built in other countries , you will see that it is indeed very very slow!!
ismellnonsense - | 118
2 Feb 2013 #53
what on earth are you talking about
poland was incredibly poor during the 90's and had no money for building roads! they had barely enough money to keep people alive at even sort-of european standards yet alone building motorways!!!

a lot was built between 2004 and the present day
and if poland gets built what they have planned for the next budget cycle
the country will be almost complete
it is an incredible transformation
and done without resorting to vignettes or road tax
jkb - | 198
2 Feb 2013 #54
So the occupiers built no roads? Zero?

They did, but they were not Poles. Take a look at the post I was quoting...
monia 3 | 212
2 Feb 2013 #55
Because these roads were built by the Germans before the war..

Liar ! Germans only bombed our infrastructure and have been robbing our country for years since 1772 -1918 , 1939-1945 . Can`t you understand that now it is the time to pay us for stolen goods and ruining our country . Germany wouldn`t be halfway where they are now without stealing from us - goods ,arts , gold , factory equipmant , employing slave wartime workers over 2 million of Polish men, women and cildren aged 14 - 60 .
Lenka 3 | 2,630
2 Feb 2013 #56
Germans only bombed our infrastructure and have been robbing our country for years

Yeah,right.I live in Silesia so I know it's not true.
TheOther 5 | 3,682
2 Feb 2013 #57
Germans ... have been robbing our country for years since 1772 -1918

There was no Poland to speak of during that time, so the Germans must have "robbed" their own country then. Pretty stupid of them, don't you think?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
2 Feb 2013 #58
Can`t you understand that now it is the time to pay us for stolen goods and ruining our country .

Sorry but that's nonsense.
OP Meathead 5 | 470
2 Feb 2013 #59
Liar ! Germans only bombed our infrastructure and have been robbing our country for years since 1772 -1918 , 1939-1945 . Can`t you understand that now it is the time to pay us for stolen goods and ruining our country . Germany wouldn`t be halfway where they are now without stealing from us - goods ,arts , gold , factory equipmant , employing slave wartime workers over 2 million of Polish men, women and cildren aged 14 - 60 .

The only way to deal with the Germans is to ignore them. You see what the German bankers are doing to Greece? You want that for Poland?
antheads 13 | 366
2 Feb 2013 #60
How many of these new highways are private toll roads? They are building these roads with goverment money and then robbing the taxpayer again?

Instead of following the american model Poland should have invested more in the railways , like the czechs.


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