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What are Poland's optimal both real and virtual neighbors?


Nathan 18 | 1,363
14 Apr 2011 #1
Hi there, everyone. Poland has 7 land-bound neighbors: Germany, the Czech republic, Slovakia, Ukraine, Belorus, Lithuania and Russian Federation. I just have a question in regards to what countries Polish people think are their optimal neighbors, if any, and reasons why or why not and also if it was possible to move countries over (replace the current ones), if any, which would be the best for Poland and in what way. There is also a possibility of moving the neighbors around :) - sometimes it is not as much their presence as location that play a role.
PennBoy 76 | 2,437
14 Apr 2011 #2
I just have a question in regards to what countries Polish people think are their optimal neighbors

Ukraine is definitely one of them Nathan. Many similarities in ethnics, culture, food, mentality. It's no wonder Poles and Ukrainians get along abroad.
OP Nathan 18 | 1,363
14 Apr 2011 #3
Ukraine is definitely one of them Nathan

Hey, that's nice to hear, PennBoy.

Many similarities in ethnics, culture, food, mentality. It's no wonder Poles and Ukrainians get along abroad.

I agree. Food, especially. When I ate pączki in Gdansk, it reminded me my granny's. Yammi :)
MediaWatch 10 | 945
14 Apr 2011 #4
Ukraine is definitely one of them Nathan. Many similarities in ethnics, culture, food, mentality. It's no wonder Poles and Ukrainians get along abroad.

I can see that.

Even though Ukraine and Poland historically had their differences (a chunk of it started by old Soviet divide and conquer propaganda dividing them), in recent years Ukrainian and Polish leaders have been improving their relations, which is nice to see.

I can say, in my personal experiences with Ukrainian Americans here in the US, they seemed to respect the fact that I am a Polish American. It could be because in general Slavic Americans like to get along here in the US. Or it could be because of other reasons. Its all good to me either way.
gumishu 11 | 5,493
14 Apr 2011 #5
a Ukrainian girl once (middle 90's) worked for my family on a strawberry plantation (a small one) and she slept at our place (she was quite pretty - amazing blonde hair) - I wasn't there for the most part as I have been studying - still I remember her saying she preferred Czech TV to Polish cause she could understand it better (we live not far from the Czech border and the Czech TV reception is brilliant as they have their transmitters atop of the mountain ranges on the border - you can even have decent enough Czecz TV reception as far as Wrocław - I used to watch a lot of Czech TV before)
Ironside 49 | 10,672
14 Apr 2011 #6
I would put Germany to the east and Belarus to the west
Zman
14 Apr 2011 #7
I would move Kaliningrad Region to the middle of Black see. I think it would make everyone happy, politically and touristically speaking and also weatherwise :-)
gumishu 11 | 5,493
14 Apr 2011 #8
and we would have some 200 km more Baltic coast :) just next to Mazury - sounds good :)
Ironside 49 | 10,672
14 Apr 2011 #9
Kaliningrad Region

Should belong to Poland.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
14 Apr 2011 #10
Does Poland really want it? There's already access to the Baltic Coast and Kaliningrad isn't exactly an economic powerhouse.
Ironside 49 | 10,672
14 Apr 2011 #11
It is traditionally Poland's domain, Prusy region is not whole without Królewiec Region, plus Russia doesn't need that enclave for economical reasons,and Russian beech-head is not needed here.

As for powerhouse:
No country or region on its own is an economic powerhouse, but wise management and time, the region is a additional land and coastline.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
14 Apr 2011 #12
It is traditionally Poland's domain,

Maybe, but is there really any great sentiment for it? I've never heard any Pole say it should be incorporated into Poland, unlike, say, Lwów, Wilno, Grodno etc. I understand Lithuania also feels they have a claim.
Zman
14 Apr 2011 #13
That's why my solution is both elegant and would make everyone happy :-)
Ironside 49 | 10,672
14 Apr 2011 #14
Maybe, but is there really any great sentiment for it?

It is not about sentiments.

I understand Lithuania also feels they have a claim.

Lithuania feels that they have a claim to everything, they should respect rights of Poles in Lithuania or give the land back.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
14 Apr 2011 #15
What would be the practical purpose of taking on a city like Kaliningrad when Gdansk etc is crumbling economically? Why shouldn't Russia keep it?
Ironside 49 | 10,672
14 Apr 2011 #16
What would be the practical purpose of taking on a city like Kaliningrad when Gdansk etc is crumbling economically?

Gdansk is crumbling is due to many factors, Poland economy had been shrinking anyway.
There two different issues, state of economy and territorial claims.

Why shouldn't Russia keep it?

Because Poland doesn't need a Russian beach-head at her borders.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
14 Apr 2011 #17
Gdansk is crumbling is due to many factors, Poland economy had been shrinking anyway.
There two different issues, state of economy and territorial claims.

So why take on another crumbling post-industrial city with no great links to Poland for centuries?

Because Poland doesn't need a Russian beach-head at her borders.

Tough. They won it fair and square.
Stu 12 | 522
14 Apr 2011 #18
Poland economy had been shrinking anyway

Maybe I am wrong, but hasn't the Polish economy been growing since 1992 ... ?
Ironside 49 | 10,672
14 Apr 2011 #19
So why take on another crumbling post-industrial city with no great links to Poland for centuries?

Well, if above stated reasons do not speak for itself, why not?

Tough. They won it fair and square

Did they ? Killing millions and enslaving hundred thousand millions to built military tyrannical power, then instigating WWII and then beating Germany, is fair according to you ?

Well, if Poland ever regain Królewiec , it will be very fair too.

Maybe I am wrong, but hasn't the Polish economy been growing since 1992 ... ?

In what way Polish economy been growing ?
Stu 12 | 522
14 Apr 2011 #20
In what way Polish economy been growing ?

Stat GDP Growth
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
14 Apr 2011 #21
Well, if above stated reasons do not speak for itself, why not?

The above reasons are straightforward. Kaliningrad has no greater historical connection to Poland than Calais has to England, the economy there is poor and the residents are not Polish.

Did they ? Killing millions and enslaving hundred thousand millions to built military tyrannical power, then instigating WWII and then beating Germany, is fair according to you ?

They were invaded by Germany and fought back at a cost of millions of lives.

Well, if Poland ever regain Królewiec , it will be very fair too.

You can only rgain something if it was actually yours.

In what way Polish economy been growing ?

Check the figures - it is one of the few places in Europe that is experiencing growth.
Ironside 49 | 10,672
14 Apr 2011 #22
the economy there is poor and the residents are not Polish.

those are not the only criteria,

They were invaded by Germany

They asked for it.

fought back at a cost of millions of lives.

So what ? if you play with fire you can get burnt, they are not innocent victims here.

You can only rgain something if it was actually yours.

It was,translating from XIV century relations into nowadays, yes it was.

it is one of the few places in Europe that is experiencing growth.

I don't call it grow, it just the way accountants are counting, it has a little to do with real economic state of affairs.

Poland

It only means that Poland is place where you can make money, not that people and economy is in a good shape, rather that is wider open to exploitation by a global capital, (we pay you - no?),.
Stu 12 | 522
14 Apr 2011 #23
It only means that Poland is place where you can make money, not that people and economy is in a good shape

Sorry, I dunno how else you can interprete the figures I gave you *but* to show the economy has grown, year after year after year. You are just acting as a spoiled little kid who wants his way. Well, sorry to disappoint you ... the stats speak for themselves. Accept it.
Ironside 49 | 10,672
14 Apr 2011 #24
Sorry, I dunno how else you can interprete the figures I gave you

I'm aware of a fact that you don't know.

to show the economy has grown, year after year after year

Nope, it means that flow of monies has been growing, not necessary a good thing nowadays.

You are just acting as a spoiled little kid who wants his way

What would I possibly want eh?

Well, sorry to disappoint you ... the stats speak for themselves. Accept it.

not at all, statistics has no voice, phew!
gumishu 11 | 5,493
14 Apr 2011 #25
Sorry, I dunno how else you can interprete the figures I gave you *but* to show the economy has grown, year after year after year. You are just acting as a spoiled little kid who wants his way. Well, sorry to disappoint you ... the stats speak for themselves. Accept it.

well Stu - if Polish economy is growing why the amount of tax collected fell more than 10 per cent between 2008 and 2009
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
14 Apr 2011 #26
those are not the only criteria,

The second one, that the residents of Kaliningrad aren't Polish is sufficient on its own.

It was,translating from XIV century relations into nowadays, yes it was.

The map of Europe seven hundred years ago is no basis for international borders today. Otherwise Britain would have a claim over half of France.

I don't call it grow, it just the way accountants are counting, it has a little to do with real economic state of affairs.

Everyone else calls it growth. Why do you think Poland's economy isn't growing, despite the views of economists?
gumishu 11 | 5,493
14 Apr 2011 #27
Everyone else calls it growth. Why do you think Poland's economy isn't growing, despite the views of economists?

read above Johnny
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
14 Apr 2011 #28
Check out some of these:

polishmarket.com.pl/document:24593,EC+Polands+economy+to+expand+by+41+in+2011.en.html
businessweek.com/news/2011-01-28/poland-s-economic-growth-quickens-investments-lag.html
stat.gov.pl/gus/index_ENG_HTML.htm

All pretty positive.
gumishu 11 | 5,493
14 Apr 2011 #29
well then why the amount of tax collected fell more than 10 per cent between 2008 and 2009 (these are official figures - but you would need to look for it in Polish i guess - but have a go at trying to search for that in English)

edit: btw you wouldn't hear about it from the mainstream media - you need to read Rafał Ziemkiewicz for example to find out
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
14 Apr 2011 #30
Check out those links. It's interesting what you say about tax revenues and I hadn't heard that before; though in PL at the moment there isn't that feeling of recession, vacant High Street shops, depressed property prices, general lassitude that is visible elsewhere in Europe.


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