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The New World Order and Poland's place


hairball 20 | 313
3 Jan 2008 #1
The final stages of "The New World Order" are under way. The ruling global elite meet behind closed doors to decide our fate. Their aim is to abolish National borders and leave one "World Government" that will be " administered" by a small "elite".

This "elite" go under the name of the "Bilderberg Group".

So my question is. Where will Poland's place be within " The New World Order"?

Countless people will hate "The New World Order" and will die protesting against it.

H.G.Wells
1939
slick77 - | 127
3 Jan 2008 #2
The final stages of "The New World Order" are under way.

What final stages? Any examples? Any numbers? Any facts?

elite meet behind closed doors to decide our fate.

Nothing new.

Their aim is to abolish National borders and leave one "World Government"

Not for another 100-200 years.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
3 Jan 2008 #3
This "elite" go under the name of the "Bilderberg Group".

We are familiar with these Bilderbergers...they are European tycoons, intelligence people,
memebers of 'royal' families, bankers, etc...just be aware, however, that this 'ruling council of the NWO' as many allege, cannot even agree on what they want to have for dinner, let alone on a plan for world governance...they try this and that, but in the end,

without us, the people, they are nothing!
On the other hand, these Bilderbergs, who work through the Rothschild & Rockefefeller banking octopus, do concoct nefarious plans for the seizure of natural assets belonging to various nations, such as oil, minerals, agriculture/food processing & water; they call this 'privitization', which means they steal or buy these resources, and then we pay them for access to these neccesities...so they must be watched...the EU & Bilderbergs are two head of the same creature...the EU is simply their 'administrative apparatus'...

NATO and the US military are their 'police force'.
Crow 139 | 8,358
3 Jan 2008 #4
It is good that people here started seriously to examine Polish position in New World Order and Disorder.

I would suggest that Poland slowly but surely deflect from NATO membership.
slick77 - | 127
3 Jan 2008 #5
It's an interesting theory. You have anything to back it up?
Buddy 7 | 167
3 Jan 2008 #6
H.G.Wells1939

By the way this guy also wrote about Alien invading.

The irony of conspiracies is that they usually create more speculation rather than expose real truths. I don't deny that some of these comments aren't far off the mark, however neither are they absolute fact.
Crow 139 | 8,358
3 Jan 2008 #7
conspiracies

there are no conspiracies. Only financial interests. Money flow.

By mistake, people often using word conspiracy while in fact, some financial circles just follow their financial interests. Sometimes, those interests are faced with some different interests. Then, interests must be changed, accommodated, established compromise. Otherwise, interests inevitable clash.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
3 Jan 2008 #8
"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". I seem to recall it was Lord Acton who said this. Poland's place in the New World Order is just like that of many other countries, subservient and redundant unless they can prove their worth in some way. Both Russia and America have shown their preferences for hegemony.
lesser 4 | 1,311
3 Jan 2008 #9
Final stage wont be in our times if at all. The EU is definitely great test for elitists.

The ruling global elite meet behind closed doors to decide our fate.

Like for example those folks?
OP hairball 20 | 313
4 Jan 2008 #10
What final stages? Any examples? Any numbers? Any facts?

Bush senior made a speach about it!

They have already started to take control of the oil fields. Iraq is secured and Iran will be within a year. Afghanistan has been secured so the gas pipe line can be built.

Don't say Seanus didn't warn us!
Tran Anh 2 | 72
4 Jan 2008 #11
The final stages of "The New World Order" are under way. The ruling global elite meet behind closed doors to decide our fate. Their aim is to abolish National borders and leave one "World Government" that will be " administered" by a small "elite".

It is about to happen in the next 100 years, i believe and as long as the small 'elite' is democratically elected (or elected by better means), the system would be alright. The quicker we make everyone feel at home everywhere on this earth the better.

Poland's place in the New World Order is just like that of many other countries, subservient and redundant unless they can prove their worth in some way. Both Russia and America have shown their preferences for hegemony.

Your vision is kinda backward. There is little chance that any country can achieve single (or even double) hegemony without severe protest and confrontation in future, particularly Russia and the US, who have proved again and again they dont deserve it. And I dont think Polish people are content to be a subservient sidekick of anyone. Rather they will again help to destroy the 'so-called' "NEW" world order if it unfortunately reoccurs.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
4 Jan 2008 #12
i'm not sure if i agree with all this, but i always remember what one guy wrote once:

Think of how much of a say you have in how your community is governed?
Now think of how much say you have in how your region is governed?
And now your country?

Now try to imagine what your voice will be or is supposed to be in a government that spans a continent.

Scary stuff when i think about it like he had written it.
Tran Anh 2 | 72
4 Jan 2008 #13
I myself think the concern that our voice may not be heard in a world government will pose little problem in the next 100 years as a significant majority of mankind will have already received advanced education (especially on hi-tech communication). It is unnecessary to wrap up ourselves with our contemporary limited means and then fear the scenario of a rather far future.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
4 Jan 2008 #14
t is unnecessary to wrap up ourselves with our contemporary limited means and then fear the scenario of a rather far future.

ahem, isn't that future already upon us?
Tran Anh 2 | 72
4 Jan 2008 #15
Not yet, as long as you and your 'elites' (highly mergeable!) still consider yourself Polish (or Briton) a hundred time more important than to be EUnite.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
4 Jan 2008 #16
i'm not sure what you mean by "elites" (i don't recall using that) but still, when considering who has the power to make laws, and initiate economic policies, i doubt that the avg Pole considering themsellf as Polish will affect those laws and policies one way or the other.

anyway we may be looking at a seperate ideas here.
southern 75 | 7,096
4 Jan 2008 #17
It is the same with all folks in EU.People are considered immature to take beneficial decisions for them,so Brussels beurocracy has to decide.
Tran Anh 2 | 72
4 Jan 2008 #18
i'm not sure what you mean by "elites"

I personally think the word kinda 'stinking', so I just use it as a simple and short indication of top administratives of one's country (probably with top media owners as well).

when considering who has the power to make laws, and initiate economic policies, i doubt that the avg Pole considering themsellf as Polish will affect those laws and policies one way or the other.

The system of Eu is currently very far from a kind of comprehensive global government that we happened to mention earlier (which certainly demands advanced personal communication for effective mass participation).

Individual governments in EU still possess a massive amount of initiatives and any disagreement from the majority of the citizens of one country will either bring changes or at least lots of concessions from the EU. Just see how the normal Poles united with the gov in demanding voting power or the Dutch protesting at the quickening of enlargement process has greatly shaken up Brussels.

I think the foremost concern with all responsible EU citizens is how to make the speed of integration into one single proper EU state simultaneous with the advance of citizen education and personal communication technology. If the former is faster, we will have oligarchy, if the latter is faster, then we will have anarchy.

After that, the final ultimate step: World goverment will be within grasp (I suppose I can be optimistic for a change!)
OP hairball 20 | 313
4 Jan 2008 #19
'Problem, Reaction, Solution'

That's "their" formula!
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
4 Jan 2008 #20
interesting stuff.
what can the average person do to disaffect autocracy in your opinion?
lesser 4 | 1,311
4 Jan 2008 #21
The system of Eu is currently very far from a kind of comprehensive global government that we happened to mention earlier (which certainly demands advanced personal communication for effective mass participation).

This is European Commission, it is obviously form of government which constantly step by step extend its competences. They call this process "integration".

I don't know what mass communication is necessary according to you? Government based on bureaucracy producing directives and regulations. Communication among the people is not necessary, they wont decide. What is more soon if not already they will control internet. Germans already admitted that they doing so.

Individual governments in EU still possess a massive amount of initiatives and any disagreement from the majority of the citizens of one country will either bring changes or at least lots of concessions from the EU. Just see how the normal Poles united with the gov in demanding voting power or the Dutch protesting at the quickening of enlargement process has greatly shaken up Brussels.

Still? Think about the future. Year by year they have lesser competences.

Poles, the Dutch and the French all lost their battles, their will was rejected by Brussels bureaucracy. The same about Brutish, Danes, Czechs that were not even allowed to vote. In the EU will of the people means nothing and this is obvious.

I think the foremost concern with all responsible EU citizens is how to make the speed of integration into one single proper EU state simultaneous with the advance of citizen education and personal communication technology. If the former is faster, we will have oligarchy, if the latter is faster, then we will have anarchy.

There is no such thing like "EU citizens" yet. Being responsible means, do not follow utopian ideology like globalism. This is like Marxism, many will try but nobody succeed. They key for success is regionalism, where people could directly control leaders that they know very well. This is not incident that in smaller states standards of living are higher than in bigger ones.
hello 22 | 891
4 Jan 2008 #22
Unfortunately, Poland will be a small fish, dependent on many other countries and their policies in the new world order.
Tran Anh 2 | 72
4 Jan 2008 #23
I don't know what mass communication is necessary according to you? Government based on bureaucracy producing directives and regulations. Communication among the people is not necessary, they wont decide. What is more soon if not already they will control internet. Germans already admitted that they doing so.
...In the EU will of the people means nothing and this is obvious.

If in your mindset, every Brussels politician is a thug while every Eu citizen is a wimp, then I suppose all our arguments concerning the EU will be useless. The task of convincing you thinking otherwise must belong to someone nearby, preferably a 'proud' and decent EUnite instead of a guy 10000 kms from it.

Being responsible means, do not follow utopian ideology like globalism. This is like Marxism, many will try but nobody succeed. They key for success is regionalism, where people could directly control leaders that they know very well. This is not incident that in smaller states standards of living are higher than in bigger ones.

Alright, here I won't celebrate the 'utopian ideology', instead I just point out the 'benefits' of 'being responsible' (according to your idiosyncratic vocabulary):

-There is no guarantee that in small country, people 'could directly' control their leaders. In many cases, it is actually due to its "regionalism" that the leaders of those countries have little pressure from outside to bar them from 'milking' their citizens consummately.

-There is no guarantee that in small 'regionalist' country, the standard of living has potential to be higher. Luxembourg has the highest GDP per cap in the world only thanks to full cooperation with the rest of the Benelux and EU. Even with the case of little Singapore, it has managed to thrive only thanks to its complete specialization: Services (any Great Depression like the one in the 1930s is assured to bring it back into the Stone Age). Thus you must know that Singapore is now the most adamant in building ASEAN into an equivalent of EU.

-If everyone only thinks about his own country's interest (regionalistic!), then there is no reason why some bigger ones don't want to pray on the smaller. At first economic, then diplomatic and finally, according the the dictate of reason, why not territorial conquest? Ask yourself how long did Luxembourg stand against Nazi Germany? 1 day (10 May 1941)! Being small is only wonderful in a peaceful world, but this world will not know peace as long as there are still big and small countries which all cherish the doctrine of 'Regionalism' (your vocabulary).

To conclude, the aim for a kind of world government is for the sustainability of everyone. It is based entirely on reason without any chippy sentimentality. Though of course any lessening of cynicism would help.

Unfortunately, Poland will be a small fish, dependent on many other countries and their policies in the new world order.

Please, never allow in your mind the existence of this crushingly enervating idea!
lesser 4 | 1,311
4 Jan 2008 #24
If in your mindset, every Brussels politician is a thug while every Eu citizen is a wimp

Bureaucrats serve only to themselves, this is universal true. If such behavior could be describe as "thuggish"? Their scams are financed from our taxes.

I did not meet such person yet, who support the EU (except bureaucrats themselves) and would really know how the EU works. Only opponents bother to learn about the EU. So this is other way around, I can convince them to change their mind.

-There is no guarantee that in small country, people 'could directly' control their leaders. In many cases, it is actually due to its "regionalism" that the leaders of those countries have little pressure from outside to bar them from 'milking' their citizens consummately.

In small country this is easier to get rid unwanted leaders. Pressure from the inside is much more important than pressure from the outside. Every country should stick to its own business.

Nothing is guaranteed. I meant larger regions than Luxembourg. Might be even big country, which is divided for few regions, where central goverment is responsible for defense policy, foreign policy and maybe something else. The rest should be in competences of regional leaders. Most likely Swiss direct democracy should be practiced.

-If everyone only thinks about his own country's interest (regionalistic!),

Practically me above description solve this problem. Beside of that in divided Germany people wont be interested to invade anybody. They would care about their pockets.

By the way, current generation of Germans would not even conquer this Luxembourg :)

If you are from Vietnam then you should know very well that centralization simply don't work. People in regions always know better than Central Committee what needs to be done. Look at the UN, the most corrupt organization ever. Global organization.
isthatu 3 | 1,164
4 Jan 2008 #25
Iraq is secured

funniest thing I read all night......

and Iran will be within a year.

second funniest

Afghanistan has been secured so the gas pipe line can be built.

Stop!No ,your killing me!!!
Tran Anh 2 | 72
4 Jan 2008 #26
In my statement, I wanted to stress on your word 'regionalism', not really the size of a country that bar the development of its economy and democracy. The only but great disadvantage of 'Small' (i will clarify it below) countries is when someone simply decide to swallow them and quickly accomplish the deed (the scenario is very likely if "each only sticks to its own business''), thus rendering all development a waste of time.

Nothing is guaranteed. I meant larger regions than Luxembourg. Might be even big country, which is divided for few regions, where central goverment is responsible for defense policy, foreign policy and maybe something else. The rest should be in competences of regional leaders. Most likely Swiss direct democracy should be practiced.

The question is in a hostile and suspicious atmosphere, how big is big enough? My examples of Luxi and Sing are somewhat extreme, but as big as the old USSR, the survival was not assured if there were many that hated and tried their best to destroy it. Now forgo the 2 extremes and return to something quite in a middle: Switzerland. I agree that Swiss internal system is one of the best in the world (keeping such a diverse country intact, even enlarging it, throughout the great turmoils of Europe in 8 centuries is quite an impressive feat!). It is indeed natural that some positive aspects of this model should be incorporated into EU (as a EU citizen, you can help to do it) or into the bigger world government.

However if you meant that a certain country can adopt the stance and model of Switzerland to be free, prosperous and safely forget the rest of the world, then you are kinda utopian now (in a worst sense). The Swiss were only spared in the 20th century thanks to its neighbour (we know who) was clever enough to realise its utter uselessness other than being a 'temporary' docile safe for stolen money (there is no doubt that had Hitler fulfilled his goal, he would have finished off "Helvetia" as old Bonaparte so smoothly did centuries before). And in later time did it lie diffirently from its current location (say, in Balcan or Middle East), the oh-so-famous model would either not exist or be quickly consumed.

The Swiss model of neutrality and prosperity is ironically inimitable as long as everyone still 'stick to their own business' but it can well be universal if everyone is ready to foster a more 'cooperative' atmosphere (at high level). But of course, when countries are at such cooperative level, they may not hesitate into forming up into one body (just a little step further). And then the Swiss model with its idiosyncratic neutralism will be disposed of. Quite a sweet irony!

Anyway, I want to conclude my discussion with you by summerizing all my points so far:

-There is no country in the world safe to develop itself and its citizens as long as there is negative dog-eat-dog atmosphere, which is so prevalent today.

-The establishment of a world government in its true sense is neccesary to cleanse that atmosphere, bringing prosperity and equality to all particating nations and accordingly to every citizen. Thanks to that, it will be the thing all governments dream to be: Sustainable.

-This establishment will take a very long time but it must be developed consistently and simultanously with advanced education of every person (on citizenship and high tech communication). I stress again that proficient knowledge of communication is vital to guarantee that every citizen can watch, react and participate in all actions of this massive government if they so choose. That will make the old ideas of Centralization or Regionalisation become of much less consequence. And principally, it will make any abuse of power and corruption easy to detect and be denounced. Again it is the business of a hundred years so any more details might be a little more early.

-The EU is the first step toward that necessary future. It has the fortune (can be the cause too) of founding in the region most advanced in economy and education. The benefits it has brought to many of its members clearly outweight any of its defects (which is mainly due to its inexperience). I believe whatever imperfections the Eu may have, until the foundation of a world government, I challenge anyone to find a state or an international entity that has made such a great effort and has succeeded in bringing prosperity, equality to more people or member states. Just don't mistake obligations with oppression and it will be okay.

-In that New World Order, Polish people has nothing to fear. Poland will lose its statehood in the end, but the gain for its people is immense: Universal prosperity and safety, multiplied heritage, the firm sense of equality and freedom. The idea that serves to unite people for good causes is good as long as it not blocks another idea that serves to unite more people for better causes. I believe sooner or later, the idea of Poland, after having accomplished its historic role of uniting the Poles to resist tyranny, will have to be replaced by a higher, more universal idea. (Of course, in case something bad happens in this rather rosy scenario, no one forbids Poles to turn back to their old Polish root anf strike another round of 'Za Wolność naszą i waszą'!)

-And finally, before even the thing is kicked into action, everyone must be vaccinated with a nice and hefty dose of anti-cynicism!
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
5 Jan 2008 #27
It's an interesting theory. You have anything to back it up?

I won't do your research for you...and these are facts, not theories...but I will point you in the right direction...read any of the many histories of the Rothschilds available on the web, and if you want to go to books, Niall Ferguson has published a very extensive history of the Rothschild family, approved by them...also, for a good historical perspective of Europe & the USA for the past 300 years, read 'The World Order' by American historian Eustace Mullins...for Rockefeller info, read author Gary North...for Bilderberg information, journalists Jim Tucker, Daniel Estulin and americanfreepress.net are good starting places.

hairball wrote:
H.G.Wells1939 ...By the way this guy also wrote about Alien invading.

H.G. Wells was a communist and a 'theoritician' for the so-called NWO...in his book 'War of The Worlds', decribing a Martian invasion of Earth, we find a curious mention of the number '6,000,000' for the number of Earthlings killed by the Martians...this was before WWII.

The 'Tran Anh' who writes this: Is this a Polish person?...and why does he spout this nonsense about Poland giving up their identity for a 'higher universal idea'?..and who will rule this 'higher universe'?
Tran Anh 2 | 72
5 Jan 2008 #28
Dear Mr joe, Tran Anh is my name and I am from Viet Nam. I spouted this nonsense about Poland because in a characteristic fit of weakness, I could not resist to write down some of my half-baked ideas about our very far future that corresponded with the topic. I suggest that, as you dislike it anyway, you should not be bothered at all since I am sure you will be dead long before that speculation becomes a reality (may even not). So now just be happy and live the rest of your good and free-care day to its full.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
5 Jan 2008 #29
I am humbled that you should respond...but, please, who will rule this 'higher universe'
that the Polish people should join to when their historic destiny is fulfilled?
OP hairball 20 | 313
6 Jan 2008 #30
Please! Not the kaczynski's


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