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Man taken to court for abusing Poland's president


pawian 173 | 12,565
5 Sep 2012 #1
Old report from April 2012

A man has heard charges of insulting Poland's president, after he set up a web site depicting Bronislaw Komorowski as "a prostitute, homosexual, drunkard and participant in sexual activity."

Robert F. (surname withheld under Poland's privacy laws) from Tomaszow Mazowiecki near Warsaw is being charged with falsifying documents and another person's indentity and could face a maximum sentence of five years in prison. Poland's Internal Security agency (ABW) raided the man's home last May and seized his computer and storage equipment..


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New report

Lampooner of president in court

The trial has begun of a 26-year-old man who set up a "satirical" web site that lampoons President Bronislaw Komorowski.


Robert F. (publication of full name withheld under Polish law) has been charged with insulting the president, falsifying documents, and using another person's ID.

Supporters of the defendant have argued that the trial represents an attack on freedom of speech, with Robert F. now facing up to five years behind bars.

On arriving at the district court in Piotrkow Trybunalski, central Poland, on Wednesday morning, the 26-year-old told reporters that he did not regret setting up the web site, and he re-affirmed that the portal is "satirical."

The site in question, antykomor.pl, includes computer games with such titles as 'Komor Kiler' (Komor Killer), in which users can fire virtual vegetables at the president.

The trial follows a May 2011 raid on the defendant's flat in Tomaszow Mazowiecki, central Poland, by the Internal Security Agency (ABW), during which Robert F.'s computing equipment was confiscated.


Court throws out insulting president sentence
17.01.2013 15:53
A Polish appeal court has thrown out a sentence of a man previously found guilty of insulting the Polish head of state.

jon357 63 | 15,120
25 Jan 2013 #2
The trial has begun of a 26-year-old man who set up a “satirical” web site that lampoons President Bronislaw Komorowski.

That's quite disturbing - whatever happened to satire?

I remember when the duck brothers' regime was talking (a futile exercise fortunately) about suing a German magazine who described them rather aptly as potatoes.
Varsovian 92 | 634
25 Jan 2013 #3
Jon357 always has to bring up something to defend his idols in Platforma.
Errrm - a point of information: it's the law wot's guilty here. However, the orders to make arrests like this come from the politicians.
Ironside 49 | 10,452
25 Jan 2013 #4
Terrible Stalinist regime!
jon357 63 | 15,120
25 Jan 2013 #5
Platforma

Uptight and conservative though they may be, freedom of expression was much worse under the failed regime that preceded them.

Hard to imagine Ruch Palikota bothering.
Ironside 49 | 10,452
25 Jan 2013 #6
freedom of expression was much worse under the failed regime that preceded them.

Well if you think about Gays parades only!
I mean a regime maybe totally Stalinist and repressive but as long as they would let Gays to march unmolested they are great and democratic gov in your eyes. Cheers for jon spiraling on his little personal merry go around down to the place where common sense is only a swear word.
jon357 63 | 15,120
25 Jan 2013 #7
Well if you think about Gays parades only!

More about several prosecutions detailed here in threads past than the topic that you seem fixated on. Though one of their 'ministers' condemning the teletubbies does come to mind.

However banning parades is nevertheless a symptom of something more common in less tolerant parts of the world.
kondzior 12 | 1,098
25 Jan 2013 #8
Well if you think about Gays parades only!
I mean a regime maybe totally Stalinist and repressive but as long as they would let Gays to march unmolested they are great and democratic gov in your eyes.

Spot on. Here is another example of that sort of people: foxnews.com/world/2013/01/21/russia-moves-to-enact-anti-gay-laws/

Faggotry, Russia's (and the World's) biggest problem.

I have to admit though, this is a smart move from Putin. He makes a nice bullseye for the foreign activist retards to waste their energy on, while he continues with his usual business of Russian-style democracy which they will ignore because "LOL LBGT COMMUNITY IS OPPRESSED!". Checkmate, the KGB chess-master wins again.
OP pawian 173 | 12,565
25 Jan 2013 #9
Terrible Stalinist regime!

Let me refresh your little selective stalinist memory a little:

Two guys were taken to court for offending PiS President, Lech Kaczyński:

This guy was fined:

Do not be insulted with impunity of Poland's President Lech Kaczynski. So Radom ruled the court, which sentenced a journalist for calling him " an idiot " and " jerk "

As spokesperson of the District Court in Radom Justyna Mazur , the court found that Edward S. , using their publications in 2009 . Lech Kaczynski at the terms " idiot " and " jerk " , insulted the Polish president .

Wording used in those issued by themselves ( without the legally required registration) writing " RULE " .


This one was acquitted.
Ironside 49 | 10,452
26 Jan 2013 #10
Let me refresh your little selective stalinist memory a little:

Did I hit the nerve?
What goes around come around.

Two guys were taken to court for offending PiS President, Lech Kaczyński:

Yeah! What your little NeoStalinist clique were howling then?Would you like to refresh your little memory?
Yet nobody was using the state special forces to hunt down internet sites.
PO little regime already hunted down few people who dared to laugh at Prime mister and president. What your little mass-media-block is saying now?
On that example is easy to expose their bias and double standards.
OP pawian 173 | 12,565
26 Jan 2013 #11
Did I hit the nerve?

No, why? :):):) But you hit my sleep button. Sorry, Iron, I am turning in. See you today! :):):)
Ironside 49 | 10,452
26 Jan 2013 #12
No, why?

keep lying.
jon357 63 | 15,120
26 Jan 2013 #13
Faggotry, Russia's (and the World's) biggest problem.

From posts you've made here, it may well be your biggest problem, on a personal level, that is. If you think however that human sexuality is "the World's biggest problem" I suggest you reassess your priorities and reflect on the food crisis, overpopulation, the growing wealth-gap, the economic rise of China, man-made climate change and the North Korean and Iranian defence programmes.

Yet conservative politicians in Poland still find time to launch show-trials against satirists and complex-ridden frumps still find time to obsess about people's love lives.
isthatu2 4 | 2,704
26 Jan 2013 #14
Faggotry, Russia's

I rather think Russias biggest problem vis a vis this topic is being over run with eager beavers wishing to join the new group of Army officers who make detailed inspections of recruits penis' and bottoms to check for any signs of homosexual activity.........its a strange fascination that so many of you slavic types share to be sure,most normal straight people just never consider the sort of things that seem so prominent in the minds of so many self styled *straight * people from the wild east....... :)

BTW, stupid case, silly web sites like that should be left alone. All that happens is people who are not being oppressed daily suddenly feel,with a little justification, that they are being oppressed....self defeating tactics or something more sinister?
kondzior 12 | 1,098
26 Jan 2013 #15
If you think however that human sexuality is "the World's biggest problem" I suggest you reassess your priorities and reflect on the food crisis, overpopulation, the growing wealth-gap, the economic rise of China, man-made climate change and the North Korean and Iranian defence programmes.

I was being sarcastic.
But sitll, the sin is that it fails to adhere to universal principles like honesty, righteousness, vitality, creativity etc. etc. Homosexuality is ugliness in itself, being in direct violation of said principles. Individual considerations are irrelevant.
jon357 63 | 15,120
27 Jan 2013 #16
it fails to adhere to universal principles like honesty, righteousness, vitality, creativity etc

A bizarre comment. What makes you think that? And what on earth is 'righteousness'? Sounds like something Al-Qaida would talk about.
kondzior 12 | 1,098
27 Jan 2013 #17
Traditional wisdom combined with inner understanding. Everything that occurs in this universe has an analogical correspondent on a divine level. Think of God as the supreme principle from which all conceptual possibilities derive from. Basically a Form to rule all forms, in the Platonic sense of the word. Manifestation is merely an unfolding of those principles into an infinite number of possibilities. There's also an infinite number of possible manifestations, each corresponding to an original matrix which is in itself a reflection of the totality that is God into various degrees of separation from the original model, of which of course there are an infinite number, like dots in a straight line.

Basically, creation is merely an aspect of the Creator. It is an unfolding of universal principles who's attributes permeate and define all the elements of creation at every strata, but the principles are by themselves unchanged and unchangeable for all eternity. When you look at life, you see those primal principles unfolding over and over again in different patterns and different possibilities, but the underlying nature of those principles remains immutable. The universe itself is merely an unfolding of a primordial matrix (again, one among many), which acts as a theme upon which each variation hinges upon, and the original theme of the universe is nothing other then man, who basically represents God himself manifesting his own being within the parameters of the original matrix. As such, while every natural phenomena and all the lifeforms of this universe express those universal principles as passive participants, man, being God's emissary on this earth, is allowed to bridge creation with the original model in a manner which involves the direct participation of consciousness, thus elevating those universal principle to their original, transcendent dimension.

In essence, creation actually begins with man, and everything else represents a possibility inherent to this particular model. So every plant, every animal, all of those things represent an unfolding of possibilities inherent in the primary elements that constitute man. So in the end, the beginning of creation coincides with the end result. Life exists so that man can exist. Likewise, creation exists so that the Creator can exist. Perfection cannot exist without imperfection. Totality cannot exist without parts, and so on and so forth. All the lifeforms in this universe exist because all possibilities have to manifest themselves in order for a given form to exist. If man is a being who moves through space by means of extremities, then every possible variation of this system will invariably manifest itself as conceptual possibilities, all adding up to a totality which exists only as an underlying principle, the "Form" which underpins the concept of moving through space by means of physical extremities. The same goes for every element of this universe. Since God is a radiant being, then radiance will manifest itself in every element of creation in all possible manners, many of which will serve as a reminder to man who in this case acts a spectator of creation, the sun being the most obvious example (as Schuon said many times, there is a reason things appear as they do. Those who worship the sun as a symbol of divine radiance are closer to the truth then the scientist who "knows" the actual physical composition of this star, because it is not by chance that we see the sun as we do).

So what is love, exactly? Well, that question can be understood only if we accept that man has two natures, a lower one, which is firmly rooted within the limitations of the original matrix from which our universe was build upon, and the "higher" nature, which points to the perfection of the original model. One is instinctive and unconscious, the other is conscious and requires direct effort to abide. Now, at the highest possible level, God is basically a totality without parts. Thus, the first step towards manifestation is a division into a primary duality, which in the human form manifests itself in what we call "male" and "female". The nature of this duality notwithstanding, by this rending man is basically made incomplete, much like God is rendered incomplete by the first duality, and each part will seek union with the other, in an effort to restore an experience of totality which can literally be defined as "paradisaical", one shooting across a given direction as an active force, the other, by offering the abundance necessary for the possibility to unfold. So God shone a light upon the formless void, and the universe was created. So man unites with a woman, and a new life is born. This union occurs at many levels, the most basic one being the purely physical level, that is, sexual union (again, there is a reason we see and experience certain things as we do). Alas, this physical conjoining is not sufficient in itself, since man is a creature constituted by many different elements (likewise, the begetting of children is not the only thing that is created by the marrying of masculinity with femininity, but i'll leave this for some other time). So union also occurs at a psychological or emotional level, but most important of all, union has to include a transcendental element, because it is only this latter that is "objective" and "eternal" in the real sense. This transcendental union has been established as an institution and consecrated with specific rites among all existing traditional cultures. Simply put, it is at this level that homosexual love has no place, being a deviation of a universal principle (such deviations exist for the same reason evil exists. That is, they exist because manifestation cannot be perfect, or it would not be manifestation, but God. An unfolding of possibilities apart from an undifferentiated primal principle must include "bad" or "defective" possibilities as well, by definition, or they would not be "apart', but they would be the principle, which cannot be).

Thus, ultimately, homosexuality can only be "love" from the point of view of our lower selves. Since it is our inescapable imperative to elevate ourselves above our lower natures, homosexuality can only lead to degeneration, because the only thing preventing degeneration in the first place is our struggle to escape our fallen state (mind you that heterosexuality can be degenerated too), a struggle which can only point out to the original perfection, a perfection from which homosexuality is excluded from a priori. Mind you that so far i've been talking of homosexuality from a conceptual point of view. This is because it is homosexuality in itself that is degenerate, not homosexuals in particular. As fallen creatures, we are all imperfect in one way or another, and each one of us possess qualities which are in violation of a celestial law or principle, or qualities which simply make a mockery of said principles. But because our destiny lies beyond this life, those imperfections only matter in light of our upward struggle. If an individual has this burden placed above him or her, it is still his or her duty to try to correct all internal blemishes, because in the end it is only our lower selves that are imperfect, and those lower selves will be no more once we die. If this seems unduly hard on some people, it is only because we are all in transit, each "manifestation" of our lesser selves being a reflection of the state our souls find themselves. We cannot change the state of those momentary "concretizations" of our consciousness into corporeal beings once the form has been realized, but we can still work for the betterment of our being even while we are still trapped into those imperfect forms. This process is greatly hindered by any attempt at destroying the integrity of an understanding of universal principles by claiming that a deviation is "correct" too, under the rubric of safeguarding the "rights" of our individual egos, where our entire existence in the next life hinges upon the degree of success in escaping those illusory and transitory individual egos to begin with, because the further we are pulled away from the primal principle, the more we will mire our spirits to increasingly degraded forms, until our being is trapped in a veritable "hellish" state, that is, a state which has no access to any transcendent element whatsoever.
jon357 63 | 15,120
27 Jan 2013 #18
. this universe has an analogical correspondent on a divine level.

That isn't really a basis for legislative policy, is it?

Manifestation

God himself manifesting his own being within the parameters of the original matrix

our lower selves

As fallen creatures, we are all imperfect in one way or another

Fortunately, in Poland we live in a secular democracy - people are free to believe all this stuff (or indeed anything else they want) however we are fortunate that laws are not based on that.
kondzior 12 | 1,098
27 Jan 2013 #19
Eh...
TL;DR version. The problem with the liberal stance on homosexuality is not so much that they want to right the various grievances often heaped upon homosexuals (many of which are perfectly justified) for something most homosexuals have no hope to correct, realistically speaking. The problem is that the way liberals go about doing this is by declaring that homosexuality is "correct" as well, which is not only false, but also dangerous in the long run.
jon357 63 | 15,120
27 Jan 2013 #20
You seem to be concerned about what is 'correct' or not. But in a plural society we can't talk about 'correct' - because there isn't one single standard to judge what is 'correct'..

A country like Poland, a secular democracy with a centuries-old liberal tradition, a respect for freedom of speech and behaviour and a legal system that doesn't moralise, actually gives equal rights to all and is an environment where freedoms are cherished. What one person thinks 'correct' or 'incorrect' is a matter for them only - not society as a whole.
kondzior 12 | 1,098
27 Jan 2013 #21
It is dangerous because relativity makes everything sh*t. When everything is sh*t, the chance your soul is going to get dragged into a hellish state increases greatly, in this life as well as beyond.

Claiming homosexuality is "normal" is about as useful as calling retards "differently abled", or some other such nonsense, as if by softening on the definition one is going to change the condition. Ain't gonna happen, and the same goes for homosexuality.
Ironside 49 | 10,452
27 Jan 2013 #22
A country like Poland, a secular democracy with a centuries-old liberal tradition, a respect for freedom of speech and behaviour and a legal system that doesn't moralise, actually gives equal rights to all and is an environment where freedoms are cherished. What one person thinks 'correct' or 'incorrect' is a matter for them only - not society as a whole.

In Poland there is unwritten rule that everybody can stick to their own system as long as they do not try to legalize and propagate their own little ways as a majority of population stick to Christianity and that is good. Not need to fix what is not broken! Unfortunately Soviet Poles, upstarts and foreigners seems to be unable to grasp that aspect of the Polish culture and their attempts at improving Polish society often backfire into their face!

Hence they tend to blame it on the "right wing extremists" or on the RCC. Instead looking for labels to shift the blame for their own failures onto the others they should have learn from the experience. Mind your own businesses and nobody will bother you.
jon357 63 | 15,120
27 Jan 2013 #23
In Poland there is unwritten rule that everybody can stick to their own system as long as they do not try to legalize and propagate their own little ways

As certain tendencies in society - i.e. the most conservative and religious people - get upset if they can't legalise and propagate their "little ways".

"right wing extremists"

the RCC

No shortage of either ultra-conservatives or religious fundamentalists wherever you go Fortunately as a secular liberal democracy , in Poland their aims are thwarted.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
27 Jan 2013 #24
A country like Poland, a secular democracy with a centuries-old liberal tradition, a respect for freedom of speech and behaviour and a legal system that doesn't moralise, actually gives equal rights to all and is an environment where freedoms are cherished.

Hmm so what's your problem ? What do you want to change ?
Ironside 49 | 10,452
27 Jan 2013 #25
As certain tendencies in society - i.e. the most conservative and religious people - get upset if they can't legalise and propagate their "little ways".

Sorry but all kinds of persuasions will not magically make gays into majority. Would you like to impose minorities views on majority or you would rather dispute what is right and whats wrong. Cannot have it both ways.

No shortage of either ultra-conservatives or religious fundamentalists wherever you go Fortunately as a secular liberal democracy , in Poland their aims are thwarted.

Again missing my point! In Poland you do not have ultras nor extremist expect for some individuals and Soviet Poles of course. Polish way is to maintain a balance and common sense. What you call extremist are just people whose values are under attack by the international activists of so called liberalism which is nothing more than yet another mutation of Bolshevism. Those are a real life extremist and provocateurs.

You are of course entitled to your opinions. However even your consistency in using terminology of the global revolution do not change the facts.
jon357 63 | 15,120
27 Jan 2013 #26
Cannot have it both ways.

Actually you can have it both ways, where legal systems do not discriminate on the basis of things people cannot or do not wish to change about themselves, where the morality of the most conservative is not the barometer for legislation.

Poland has something of a history of this - though many have tried to drag it back into the dark ages.

In Poland you do not have ultras nor extremist

There are such people and there are such political parties, as well you know.

Soviet Poles

There you go again.

people whose values are under attack by the international activists of so called liberalism which is nothing more than yet another mutation of Bolshevism

Ditto.

You are of course entitled to your opinions.

Indeed - and my opinion is that I am happy with the secular liberal democracy that we have right now. Would you really prefer to create some sort of 'fourth republic' like the ducky brothers wanted?

your consistency in using terminology of the global revolution

And this from the guy who uses phrases like:

Soviet Poles

majority

international activists of so called liberalism

Bolshevism

LOL!
Ironside 49 | 10,452
28 Jan 2013 #27
And this from the guy who uses phrases like:

My phrases reflect reality if imperfectly. Whereas your phrases try to create reality which exist only in your perception.
If a person who thinks that a Gay's Parade is not necessary a good thingee is in your eyes an undemocratic extremist and you really belief it. Then it is your problem not a fact.

There are such people and there are such political parties, as well you know.

Except for few nutter on the fringe of reality there are no such people I know off and definitely there is no such political parties save the Palikot batch/(maybe). PiS is a classical Polish socialist party as opposed to Soviets or western socialists.

If you mean ND as far as I know they are only forming nucleus in opposition to Soviets Poles who are ruling Poland at the moment. It is difficult to say what they mean,so far all they say is that Polish state shoudl be run in the interest of the Polish people which is hardly a reactionary or secluded idea.

Poland has something of a history of this - though many have tried to drag it back into the dark ages.

Only in your perception. That is only reaction of people when some people force ideas down their throat. Retching reflexes if you please.
You seems to fail to understand that ideas which you believe to be democratic have been adopted by some democracies only 20 or 30 years ago. Those ideas are in fact just an appendix to democracy not democracy integral part and such additions are not necessary suitable for everyone.

Actually you can have it both ways, where legal systems do not discriminate on the basis of things people cannot or do not wish to change about themselves,

What is discrimination and what isn't. Do you have definition ready?
jon357 63 | 15,120
28 Jan 2013 #28
My phrases reflect reality if imperfectly. Whereas your phrases try to create reality which exist only in your perception.
If a person who thinks that a Gay's Parade is not necessary a good thingee is in your eyes an undemocratic extremist and you really belief it. Then it is your problem not a fact

Did I say that people who think parades are not necessary are extremists? Of course someone who would try to use the law to ban a peaceful, happy and positive gathering is pretty extreme.

Except for few nutter on the fringe of reality there are no such people I know off

Then all I can say is that you don't pay much attention to politics. Two parties (admittedly "nutters on the fringe of reality") were in coalition with the failed PiS administration a few years ago.

force ideas down their throat.

How would you define "force ideas down their throat"?

What is discrimination and what isn't. Do you have definition ready?

Buy a dictionary.
kondzior 12 | 1,098
28 Jan 2013 #29
I'm not so much against homosexuals on personal level, i'm arguing against degenerate homosexual culture, which has been shoved down our collective throats, ostensibly under the rubric of spreading "tolerance" but in reality as a vindictive effort to stick it to the all the "homophobes" in the world and make them "pay" for all the abuse leveled against homosexuals. This is what liberalism is all about. Revenge against the misuses (real or imagined) of authority. The fact society is being disintegrated by their ill conceived attempts at social engineering doesn't matter to them. We need to have more "awareness", more "tolerance". Decency and common sense can go f*ck themselves in the process. And its not just homosexuality of course. Western civilization as a whole is slowly becoming the paragon of all the is vile and putrid in the world. Virtue is a concept which no longer holds any meaning, something to be derided and scorned as "old fashioned", or as "authoritarian". While everything sick and perverted is being "celebrated" as healthy and liberating.
jon357 63 | 15,120
28 Jan 2013 #30
shoved down our collective throats

Define that.

And who decides what is

vile and putrid

, and who is the arbiter of

Virtue

??

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