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Legal opposition threatened by Poland's regime


jon357 63 | 14,110
10 Jun 2016  #1
Going to hell in a handcart:

A country which was considered for many years as a symbol of the fight against totalitarianism and pioneer of democratic reforms in Central and Eastern Europe is today quickly being transformed into a tyrannical satrapy where civil liberties are curtailed and repression is applied to people with different ideological views than the prevailing political narrative.

On the morning of May 18, 2016, officers of the Polish Internal Security Agency (ABW) searched apartments of members of the national leadership of the Zmiana (Change) Party, demanding that they hand over hard-disks, memory sticks, documents etc.

voltairenet.org/article192212.html

I'm not among Pisorski's biggest fans for various reasons, however he is a good person and above all acting entirely within the law. It seems the PiS regime prefer the methods of the PRL (very much the heyday of some of the individuals in it) to the methods of the free world.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
11 Jun 2016  #2
There is legal opposition and then there is a being funded and esposing the policies of a, nuclear armed, enemy state.

Hybrid war that the neo-Soviets use so effectivly, is designed to use our freedoms against us. In response, NATO has stated that they will treat this sort of attack as an act of war.

From your Russian-loving source -

Given the involvement of Turkey in the war against Syria and Poland in that against Ukraine, we can logically deduce that these abuses are not national events, but the result of the Nato policy.

Damn right it is.

Enemy spies and combatants will be hunted down and eliminated. I'm afraid there is a limit to democracy and this is it.

The following are non-left wing anonymous pro Russian sites: the Orwellian named I"nternational Observatory of Ukrainian Conflict," "slavyangrad.org," " vineyardsaker.fr" and " vineyardsaker.de." The anonymous "Human Rights Investigations.org" and the "Ukrainian Human Rights.org," must not be confused with the legitimate "Ukrainian Helsinki Human Rights Union" and "Kharkiv...
[...] There is no evidence that pro Kremlin sites "Sott.net" or "Voltairenet.org" are Kremlin funded.

rytyka.com/en/community/blogs/left-or-russia-strange-case-foreign-pro-kremlin-radical-leftists

Choose your sources wisely.
Religio
23 Jun 2016  #3
jon357 - a tyrannical satrapy where civil liberties are curtailed

Zmiana is a front group for Putin's Russia, a tyrannical satrapy where civil liberties are curtailed. Another fifth column Poland does not need!
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
23 Jun 2016  #4
Their analysis in this matter is spot on and reflected by many other comnentators.
Religio
23 Jun 2016  #5
jon357 methods of the free world

Was Tusk employing the methods of the free world when he sent his zomos against Solidarity, placed jorunalists under surveillance in conenction with the Sowa & Friends tape scandal and seized their documents and pendrives?
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
23 Jun 2016  #6
Was Tusk employing the methods of the free world when he sent his zomos against Solidarity

The zooms predated Premier Tusk...

Sowa & Friends tape scandal and seized their documents and pendrives?

Damn right, they were illegally bugging politicians.
Religio
23 Jun 2016  #7
No, the journalists were not bugging anyone only publishing leaks which exposed his government's cynicism and self-interest. You, after all, support wikileaks. Tusk was clearly violating the freedom of the press.
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
24 Jun 2016  #8
No, the journalists were not bugging anyone

Yes, they were illegally bugging politicians in a restaurant.

. You, after all, support wikileaks

That's news to me
Religio
24 Jun 2016  #9
jon357 - Yes, they were illegally bugging politicians
Not even PO made such a claim. A businessman named Falenty arranged the taping with local waiters. Their contents were leaked to weekly Wprost which printed them. Journalists did not do any actual eavesdropping. Tusk's stooges who got filmed trying to wrest the Wprost editor's laptop away from him were acting illegally. A journalist's sources are a sacred trade secret that cannot be divulged.
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
24 Jun 2016  #10
Sources can be and often are divulged.
Religio
24 Jun 2016  #11
jon357 - Sources can be and often are divulged

If not volunteered, then only under torture or at gunpoint.
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
24 Jun 2016  #12
If not volunteered, then only under torture or at gunpoint

Not only, as well you know. The rule of law helps, and where security has genuinely been breached (as in this case where private conversations government ministers were secretly recorded) no journalists' so-called 'trade secrets' apply.
Religio
25 Jun 2016  #13
jon357 - private conversations government ministers
But when such a vile and toxic regime as PO are involved, the ministers are little better than a bunch of gangsters anyway so what's the harm keeping track of their scams and schemes?
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
26 Jun 2016  #14
So what you're in fact saying is that appalling behaviour is perfectly acceptable providing it's carried out by a political tendency you like. Shame on you, Polonius3, not that you know what the word means.
Harry
23 May 2017  #15
Merged:

Chris Niedenthal speaks out about the PIS regime in Poland



One of Polonia's best ever photographers, Chris Niedenthal, has spoken out against the current regime. Niedenthal took some of the best known pictures from the fight for democracy in the '80s, which show he was there and took part, which is something some leading lights in the PiSlamic State can't show.

He says that the misdeeds of First Secretary Kacznski's junta have led to Poland today being "a laughing stock, not only in the EU but also in the world". He points out that the position to today is "much worse" than it was when Poland languished under the PZPR, because that Party has been imposed by the USSR, while "the current system, which is somewhat similar to communist system" has been created by Poles.

He says that "It's a tragedy that Poles decided to return to the old days...[to] destroy everything that has been built over the last twenty-five years."

Full interview (in Polish) is here: wiadomosci.dziennik.pl/opinie/artykuly/550275,wywiad-z-chrisem-niedenthalem-1989-sytuacja-w-polsce-rozmowa.html
Ziemowit 12 | 3,385
23 May 2017  #16
"the current system, which is somewhat similar to communist system" has been created by Poles

That is of course a huge exaggeration which shows Chris Niedental did not experience the communist system in Poland on an every-day basis.The one thing is certain, however, namely that the government propaganda on public TV or public radio reminds the growing number of people the times of the PRL. The Wiadomości news programme at 19:30 on TVP1 is utterly disgusting. On the other hand, you have the other two big information channels (TVN which is American and Polsat) which broadcast in full independence of the PiS government, something of which you could only dream under PRL.

On top of that, there is the internet which the government doesn't or even doesn't try to control. Under communism, with your posts on a forum like this you would be easily identified, Harry, and you would be surely asked to leave the territory of Poland.
mafketis 19 | 7,019
23 May 2017  #17
public TV or public radio reminds the growing number of people the times of the PRL. The Wiadomości news programme at 19:30 on TVP1 is utterly disgusting

A friend (grew up in the PRL) recently opined that TVP is now worse than in the PRL. Back then, the reasoning goes, no one really believed in what they were saying, while the propagandists in charge now actually really do seem to believe the nonsense they peddle...

Again, though the existence of free and independent broadcasters is a large improvement, it's just sad that they're so needed right now.
Harry
23 May 2017  #18
Chris Niedental did not experience the communist system in Poland on an every-day basis.

He has lived here since 1973. Please limit yourself to posting facts as facts and opinions as opinions.

the other two big information channels (TVN which is American and Polsat) which broadcast in full independence of the PiS government

For now they do, but no doubt First Secretary Kaczynski has plans to change that. Already we have bodies of the PiSlamic State such as TVPiS threatening to sue the free media for reporting facts.

the existence of free and independent broadcasters is a large improvement, it's just sad that they're so needed right now.

It's also sad that they are under such attack now from the junta and the wider PiSlamic State, as shown by the plunge of Poland in the rankings of the Press Freedom Index, down from 18th place in 2015 to 54th place now.
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
23 May 2017  #19
Kacznski's junta have led to Poland today being "a laughing stock, not only in the EU but also in the world".

Even their supporters feel this. And wish they didn't.


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