Kudos to RCC for turning Poland into a laughingstock... again.

30 Oct 2012 #1

"The Catholic Church in Poland warns that modern Halloween rituals risk promoting the occult and a culture of death among young people"

"This kind of fun, tempting children like candy, also poses the real possibility of great spiritual damage, even destroying spiritual life,"

Archbishop Andzej Dziega warned that Halloween was behind a "culture of death".

bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20131808

Ah the men in black (robes) strike again... the pride of the nation...

Harry

30 Oct 2012 #2

I must admit that personally I find the mere idea of screaming brats banging on my door in search of sweets to be 100% the work of Satan.

Poland's powerful Roman Catholic church has raised the alarm about the growing influence of what it brands satanic rituals during Halloween.
"Halloween promotes the occult and magic," the church said in a statement on its website ahead of the October 31 festival.
"Under the guise of having fun, children, youngsters and adults are invited to engage in occult rituals which contradict Church teachings and Christianity."
...
But over the 23 years since the collapse of communism, carved pumpkin lanterns and youngsters disguised as ghouls and goblins have become common on Halloween.
The church alert comes amid a boom in exorcism in the country of 38.2 million people.
The number of Catholic priests qualified as exorcists has jumped from four to more than 120 over 15 years, according to the Polish church's chief demonologist, Father Aleksander Posacki.

OP FlaglessPole 4 | 657

30 Oct 2012 #3

Don't people in Poland get annoyed with the earth-is-flat mentality of the church?

delphiandomine 88 | 18,131

30 Oct 2012 #4

Archbishop Andzej Dziega warned that Halloween was behind a "culture of death".

More accurately, it's behind people giving less money to the Church and more money elsewhere.

jon357 74 | 22,042

30 Oct 2012 #5

"This kind of fun, tempting children like candy, also poses the real possibility of great spiritual damage, even destroying spiritual life,"

Fortunately people ignore this type of nonsense.

SeanBM 35 | 5,797

30 Oct 2012 #6

"Christ is stronger than the pumpkin.

Pagan custom can be dangerous - warn ministers

"The Church warns against engaging in any form of the occult and magic" - recalled Archbishop Leszek Sławoj Głódź in the message to the faithful of the Archdiocese of Gdańsk.

He also stressed: "Roots" Halloween "date back to pagan celebrations of the spirits and the Celtic god of death. Author of" Satan's Bible "and founder of modern Satanism Anton Lavey said that the night of October 31 to November 1 is the largest celebration of Lucifer."

i was reading about this is the Polish paper today.

So we can all relax, Jesus is stronger than a pumpkin....

I wonder if it is scare mongering or pure stupidity?

The strangest thing for me is that All saints is not an original part of the Catholic Church.
To change the people from pre-Christian beliefs the RRC adopted some of the preexisting festivals.

I really like All Saints but to put down other people's festivals/cultures is not so cool, at least they should promote St. Patrick's Day :)

OP FlaglessPole 4 | 657

30 Oct 2012 #7

[yawn]

Stunning eloquence on your part, do the square brackets somehow represent your frame of mind?

On another note, a quick question to those who live in Poland. Would it be a correct to assume that those bizarre manifestation of Polish Taliban are merely signs of their frustration, seeing as it becomes increasingly and inexorably harder to justify their own existence in the 21st century Europe?

Varsovian 91 | 634

30 Oct 2012 #8

St Patrick got condemned at one Catholic church I went to, or at least the hymn "Amazing Grace" did.

"This is not a concert hall, this is a house of God and there are many Polish hymns which can be sung. We have no need of foreign songs."

Berk of a priest in a backwater town.

My reaction to hearing the Halloween guff read out at church was to giggle at it quietly. I'm unhappy at certain aspects of it, because we're being fed an Americanised version of it which is a bit naff. I don't see any evil in it - like I didn't see any evil in Harry Potter! Also condemned ... by B16. Honestly! Nonsense.

aphrodisiac 11 | 2,437

30 Oct 2012 #9

On another note, a quick question to those who live in Poland.

pretty much. I read comments from Poles to that article yesterday and they're pretty much agreeing with you, so not to worry. Poles are not that naive.

Foreigner4 12 | 1,768

30 Oct 2012 #10

More accurately, it's behind people giving less money to the Church and more money elsewhere.

Bull's Eye!

SeanBM 35 | 5,797

30 Oct 2012 #11

Would it be a correct to assume that those bizarre manifestation of Polish Taliban are merely signs of their frustration, seeing as it becomes increasingly and inexorably harder to justify their own existence in the 21st century Europe?

I think this is a correct assessment.

The problem is that the church will push away many people by such antics because most Catholic Polish people are not that gullible and I presume do not like such ridiculous behaviour.

"This is not a concert hall, this is a house of God and there are many Polish hymns which can be sung. We have no need of foreign songs."

That will inevitably have a negative impact on the Church.

Harry

30 Oct 2012 #12

The church will most definitely push way some people but I think that after a while the bitter and twisted hate-filled scum who claim to represent Polish Catholicism (e.g. the defenders of the cross) will be told that they can either act like Christians or form their own church because they are tearing the RCC in Poland apart. Hopefully they will then form their own church.

OP FlaglessPole 4 | 657

30 Oct 2012 #13

The problem is that the church will push away many people by such antics because most Catholic Polish people are not that gullible and I presume do not like such ridiculous behaviour.

In which case, I'd say it's a blessing in disguise rather than a problem. Encore, encore :)

NorthMancPolak 4 | 645

30 Oct 2012 #14

We have no need of foreign songs

Yet they seem to be quite happy to accept a foreign religion, lol.

delphiandomine 88 | 18,131

30 Oct 2012 #15

I think once Benedict goes and he's replaced with someone politically acceptable to Poles, it might finally happen. Certainly the Polish RCC would be far better without all this getting involved in politics.

Mind you, the defenders of the cross are positively sane compared to some of the maniacs in Poland - I was reading about some of them that explictly reject the 2nd Vatican Council and who consider JPII to be somewhat of a heretic.

Varsovian 91 | 634

30 Oct 2012 #16

Oh, you get them everywhere!
Apparently, there's an organisation out there claiming to be the REAL Catholic Church. Loons.

sobieski 106 | 2,118

30 Oct 2012 #17

Actually I find Halloween a silly, very commercial, very stupid US import. (yes I know it originates in Ireland).
Thought I cannot follow when some bishop tells it can cause "spiritual damage" ?

jon357 74 | 22,042

30 Oct 2012 #18

Actually not that much of an import. Most of Europe has celebrations around this time that pre-date christianity and which will probably survive it. Dziady, still celebrated by some in the kresy is a good example.

sobieski 106 | 2,118

30 Oct 2012 #19

I cannot recall any of this kind of celebrations in my native Belgium when I was young (60 -70's). I do not doubt there were pre-Christian celebrations. Still Halloween for me it is an artificial import from the US. And very silly, but that is my opinion :)

Albeit still with an ancient European pedigree - which cannot be said from Valentine, which is utterly artificial.

Ironside 53 | 12,420

30 Oct 2012 #20

Halloween has noting to do with Polish traditions. It is as if Americans instead fourth of July celebrated 15 July. Absolutely bonkers.

Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,148

30 Oct 2012 #21

RCC for turning Poland into a laughingstock... again

Oy vey ! Because replacing All Saints with plastic pumpkin nonsense is so feckyn cool.

sobieski 106 | 2,118

30 Oct 2012 #22

Halloween has noting to do with Polish traditions.

Halloween nowhere in Europe has to do something with local traditions. It is commercialism, but the kind which seemingly is contagious despite being completely silly.

Do the Irish still celebrate it?

jon357 74 | 22,042

30 Oct 2012 #23

That depends if all you see is the partying, or the real meaning of Samhain/Dziady, when the veil between life and death is drawn aside, as it is this and every year by millions of Poles flocking to graveyards to honour the spirits of their ancestors.

delphiandomine 88 | 18,131

30 Oct 2012 #24

Thought I cannot follow when some bishop tells it can cause "spiritual damage" ?

It's just the usual nonsense written by out of touch bishops.

Oy vey ! Because replacing All Saints with plastic pumpkin nonsense is so feckyn cool.

Who said it has to replace it? It's actually very nice - kids have something fun when their families are around, and they can learn from Halloween about the traditions of All Saints Day. Everyone's happy.

As for commercialism - what does a few pumpkins cost at this time of year? Not very much...

sobieski 106 | 2,118

30 Oct 2012 #25

I am afraid nobody in Poland associates Halloween with something solemn. (at least that is my guess). It is plain US commercial import.
All Saints' Day is a different matter. It is an enduring and touching tradition here in Poland, and rightly so. As it is in most West and Central European countries.

delphiandomine 88 | 18,131

30 Oct 2012 #26

I am afraid nobody in Poland associates Halloween with something solemn. (at least that is my guess). It is plain US commercial import.

Indeed, but this is exactly where the Church is going wrong. If they embraced it and said "right, we approve of it, as a way to introduce kids to the real events the next day",

Anyway, I'll be at a Halloween party tomorrow ;)

(worth pointing out actually - there's a good chance that Halloween went to the US from Scotland - so I feel quite within my rights to celebrate it ;)

((trick-or-treating always resulted in the water pistol getting fired in my house...)

OP FlaglessPole 4 | 657

30 Oct 2012 #27

Oy vey ! Because replacing All Saints with plastic pumpkin nonsense is so feckyn cool.

This is not All Saints vs Halloween thread, this is a thread about a certain kind of black-robed Polish individuals obsessed with a dead guy nailed to a cross. Apparently that guy was once alive and kicking. I'm guessing he must have really been good at kicking since he, at birth, was able to rip through his mum's virgin hymen on his way out. In fact he was such a good sport, his mum got crowned queen of Poland, roughly 2000 years after she'd been teleported away... Perhaps then it is not so surprising to hear these men refer to carved pumpkins and candy as portents of 'culture of death'.

kondzior 11 | 1,046

30 Oct 2012 #28

Well, I find halloween, on that particular day, to be in really bad taste. It should be day on serenity and solemnity. "Kids having fun" on that day seems rather offensive to our dead ones.

Besides, it is worthless foreign custom, mucking our glorious Polsh culture.

delphiandomine 88 | 18,131

30 Oct 2012 #29

It should be day on serenity and solemnity.

Why? It's a normal work day.

"Kids having fun" on that day seems rather offensive to our dead ones.

Shows that you're really not up to speed with Catholicism, given that anyone believing in All Saints' Day would believe that the "saints" commemorated on All Saints' Day are actually alive and well in heaven. Perhaps you ought to go to Church once in a while?

Besides, it is worthless foreign custom, mucking our glorious Polsh culture.

Yes, because Polish culture isn't a fusion of local and international customs to begin with.

Alexander78

31 Oct 2012 #30

It's a Celtic tradition originally. So there is no reason for non Celts to celebrate it. But really what is celebrated now is more Americanized.

I think that Europe would be so much better if Christinsanity was not allowed to enter. Women definitely would have done better the last 1000 years.