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What kind of Poland do most Poles want?


Polonius3 1,002 | 12,500    
23 Mar 2016  #1
One Polonian newspaper recently published this list of postulates as to what type of Poland most Poles want. There is little if any difference in that regard between Polonia and Poland's patriotic majority. It goes against the grain of only the trough-defending post-RT elite and their PF wannabes:

1. A democratic and sovereign country.
2. An EU member as an equal partner.
3. A country united linguistically and culturally.
4. Demographically growing.
5. Proud of tis Christian history.
6. A country striving to possess in their own hands industry, banks and media.
7. Vigilant and wise in defense of its vital interests.
8. A country strong in military defense and social voluntarism.
Crow 147 | 7,398    
23 Mar 2016  #2
Nice being proud of Judeo-Christian civilization and all that but you tell me what about Svetovid and pre-Christian Polish roots? what about pro-self-Slavic feelings?
RubasznyRumcajs 5 | 447    
23 Mar 2016  #3
@crow because people who actually live in Poland give absolutely no crap about the heathen roots of it.
Crow 147 | 7,398    
  23 Mar 2016  #4
why heathen roots? roots are roots. Shame on you. Bishop Absolon was maniacal abomination and he was heathen by all universal standards of what is considered to be demonic.

i don`t think that Poles don`t care for their pre-Christian roots at a time when, for example, Scots, consider one to be civilized if one is familiar with pre-Christian Scottish culture.
OP Polonius3 1,002 | 12,500    
23 Mar 2016  #5
pre-Christian Polish roots? what about pro-self-Slavic feelings?

There is absolutely no interest amongst Polonia in pagan religiosity or Panslavism. Poles and Polonians do not use the Slavic criterion to determine their national sympatheis or antipathies. Russians are the bad guys, Ukranians as vicitmised by the Rooskies are more acceptable (despite Wołyń), Hungarians, Italians and Czechs are liked, mixed feelings towards Germans, America is loved and respected, The Balkans are rather remote, but Croatia (as Catholic and non-Cyrillic) is generally preferred to Serbia which is seen as too pro-Muscovite.
Pol attorney 2 | 106    
23 Mar 2016  #6
@Polonius3

9. Enthronement of Jesus Christ as the King of Poland by Polish bishops and the government.

(according to the messages revealed by Jesus to the Polish nun Rozalia Celiakowna in the 20's and 30's before WWII, it is ABSOLUTELY necessary for Poland to enthrone IMMEDIATELY Jesus as the king of Poland, so that other nations in Europe could follow the Polish example for example Belgium, and prevent rapid destruction and islamization of Europe and eventually its total destruction and annihilation; Jesus made it very clear that a NATION wil survive only if it enthrones Jesus as their KING)

Will it happen? we don't know, but we certainly have to pray for it...
Atch 17 | 2,654    
23 Mar 2016  #7
Scots

Yes, Crow but it's really only the Highland Scots who've held on to that sense of identity. The lowland Scots were the ones who came to the North of Ireland and they certainly had nothing in common with their Irish brethren. Ireland definitely despite being a Catholic country never lost touch with its pre-Christian roots, the old Celtic customs like Halloween and the belief in fairies for example. My grandmother, a very devout Catholic was very respectful of fairy lore even though it's against Catholicism.

There is absolutely no interest amongst Polonia in pagan religiosity or Panslavism.

Sadly I must agree. Polly gives a very fair summing up of the matter, except I disagree that Czechs are liked, I think there are mixed feelings towards them. I think it's a great pity that Poles aren't more interested in their Slavic roots.
AdrianK9 6 | 370    :-(
23 Mar 2016  #8
And yes Polonius - I'd agree with the countries you listed. Poland has traditionally held a very strong relationship with Italy (due to Catholicism) and Hungary. Also, let's not forget Lithuania. In modern Poland I'd say relationships are best between the Visegard 4 nations.

Many Poles don't like Ukrainians but tolerate them. Poles are most fearful of Russians, Albanians, Turks, Romanis (Gyspies), and Muslims in general.

Relationships with Germany and Austria are improving although many older Poles are still wary of these nations due to the partitions and world wars. Older Poles are also suspicious of Western European nations like England and France for their lack of help during WW2 and many younger/middle aged Poles are becoming more euro-skeptic as they feel Poland has given up too much sovereignty by joining the EU. They feel that Merkel and Brussels call the shots and Tusk is her lapdog. Poland has become increasingly critical of the United States as well although most continue to view the US as a military ally. However, I highly doubt the US would do much to help Poland if Russia happen to invade.

For a while Poles also did not like the Swedes due to the Potop Szwedzski. I personally supported Serbia during the Nato invasion but I don't know what the overall opinion of Serbia is. I'd imagine that Poles are weary of Serbia since it has been Russia's little buddy throughout history but don't have as much fear of it as they do Russia itself.
delphiandomine 86 | 17,376    
  23 Mar 2016  #9
and social voluntarism.

Interesting question Polonius - volunteering rates in Poland are the lowest (or nearly the lowest) in the EU. How would you change this?

I've got a project on the go to try and bring high quality classes from experts to poor schools - but it's proving very, very, very difficult to attract experts willing to give up their time. A project to go on litter-picking campaigns worked - but again, it was very hard to attract adults.

Certainly, a Poland where people regard the environment and volunteering as being important is the kind of Poland I'd like to live in. American-style volunteering would be great here.
Atch 17 | 2,654    
23 Mar 2016  #10
. How would you change this?

Has to start in school Delph, because they won't learn it at home. Then once it gets established in that generation hopefully they'll begin to pass it on. There were some kids in our local supermarket at Christmas collecting for a food parcel thing which was great to see. Much more of that is needed. Maybe the church could encourage it a bit more too. I don't know how active they are at trying to get people in their congregations directly involved. People also need to understand that it's not about giving money, it's giving of yourself in some way.
Ironside 47 | 9,328    
23 Mar 2016  #11
sovereign country.

Check

A country untied culturally.

check

Demographically growing.

Check

Proud of tis Christian history

Check

A country striving to possess in their own hands industry

Check+ nukes

what about Svetovid and pre-Christian Polish roots? what about pro-self-Slavic feelings?

Remember those roots - fair enough. Pro-Slavic? Nope, not in the way you think,who cares about such a thing? Some nutters on the fringe of society.
Pol attorney 2 | 106    
23 Mar 2016  #12
you tell me what about Svetovid and pre-Christian Polish roots?

So you expect native Poles to worship demons and satan? Are you stupid or something?
OP Polonius3 1,002 | 12,500    
23 Mar 2016  #13
Czechs

I too was surprised, but Czechs rank amongst the nations best liked by Poles. Personally I never felt any closenmess towards them becuase of their historic pro-Germanic leanings, cowardice, accptance of hard-line Stalinism and current widespread atheism.
delphiandomine 86 | 17,376    
  23 Mar 2016  #14
I too was surprised, but Czechs rank amongst the nations best liked by Poles.

I'm not surprised. Outside of Prague, they're consistently friendly and open towards people speaking Polish.

I've never had a problem with speaking Polish there, and I don't use English there unless I'm absolutely stuck and they don't understand anything in Polish (which hasn't happened yet).

Likewise, Poles seem to be very open and friendly towards Czechs too.
AdrianK9 6 | 370    :-(
23 Mar 2016  #15
Yeah Delph I do find that unfortunate. There's a lot of infighting among Poles - we aren't a very united people and aren't the 'help your neighbor out' types. I do hope that changes and I think the church could play a leading role.

There was a lot of political activism during the communist times and with the solidarity movement but that kind of fissiled out in the 90's and 2000's although it's resurging a bit as many in Poland, especially the left, are trying to make the country more 'Western.' There is some limited LGBT activism but hardly any for like the environment, homeless people, drug users, abused women, etc. Overall Poland is very conservative and most activism/volunteering is and will be tied to the Catholic Church and perhaps some foreign NGO's with offices in Poland.

fpif.org/meet-polish-activists-cutting-edge-possible-left-resurgence-eastern-europe/
delphiandomine 86 | 17,376    
23 Mar 2016  #16
I do hope that changes and I think the church could play a leading role.

My favourite church here (with a head priest who really, to me, is the definition of a Christian) gets it perfectly. Instead of spending cash on nice robes, marble floors and nice cars - he wears old clothes, drives an absolute wreck of a car and spends a ridiculous amount of time organising things for the local community. I need to take a picture of the huge, huge noticeboard that lists all the activities they do - all organised and run by volunteers.

They even have table tennis coaching! It really is a perfect example of how the church is the hub of the community.

Meanwhile, another church about a kilometre away does nothing for the community, the church is freezing in winter and the priests all have nice clothes, nice cars and the church is lavishly decorated. No surprise which one I attend on occasion ;)
nothanks - | 666    
23 Mar 2016  #17
I want one with 'No Go Zones' and rape epidemics
OP Polonius3 1,002 | 12,500    
23 Mar 2016  #18
volunteering

6 years of Nazi occupation and 45 years of Soviet puppet rule have sufficed to destroy social voluntarism. During PRL every activist of any party or Rural Farmwives' Circle, Volunteer Fire Brigade, Scouting movement, Philatelists Society, etc. asked only: what's in it for me? It may take several decades to eradicate that attitude.
Crow 147 | 7,398    
  23 Mar 2016  #19
i just have my vision of Poland. You got yours. In my mind Poland is free of all fears and for sure don`t feel shame and complexes of its own roots.
OP Polonius3 1,002 | 12,500    
24 Mar 2016  #20
The lack of a large middle class

That lopsided society -- 10% gentry, 90% commoners, of which the majority were peasant farmers, and the small town-dwelling burgher class was largely German and Jewish -- has been Poland's downfall and continues to be. The 20-year inter-war period was too short a time do create one. After the demise of communism, rather than try to make up for lost time through widespread business-vocational training and supporting indigenous entrepreneurship, successive governmetns opted for the immediate perks obtained by cosying up to foreign interest groups, turning Poland into a land of veritable mercenaries in their own country. It is the middle class that have produced the world's great writers, composers, philosophers, inventers, researchers, designers and tycoons. Poland still has a long way to go to catch up! Dep. PM Morawiecki is now Poland's only hope!
cms 9 | 1,289    
24 Mar 2016  #21
Amazing survey as it shows the divisions between what Polonia, in a comfy New Jersey suburb want is far different from what the average Pole wants.

stop 50 people coming out of Biedronka or waiting for a tram and I think they would say

1 A bit of spare cash every month, not having to live on the breadline
2 Possibilities for their kids to get a good education, equal opportunity and not have to emigrate afterwards
3 some security in their old age and some help to buy medicine
4 their own means of transport and cheaper petrol
5 a reasonable place to live and the possibility to own their own place one day
6 maybe a modest holiday once a year and some good stuff on the tv
7 know that their taxes are being spent wisely
8 be treated like adults - smoke, drink and party if they want to but realize its personal choice and personal responsibility
9 not be invaded by Russia

If you think that they are thinking about what kind of Christianity or Slavic heritage bothers them then that is a delusion.
OP Polonius3 1,002 | 12,500    
24 Mar 2016  #22
average Pole

Sounds like you have zeroed in on the Polish lumpenproletariat. If you had really conducted a survey most would of course prefer extra cash (who wouldn't?) but if they were truly frank, a majority would porbably put cheap beer, vodka and cigarettes above the other options you listed and to hell with the TK, constitution, KOD and terrorist threats.

Actually they wouldn't admit that to a stranger. According to TVP some 90%of Poles put family as the highest value above all else, and that also sounds good to interviewers. But if you could gain there confidence through prolonged interaction... Well, dont' take my word for it. Give it a go!
InPolska 11 | 1,821    
24 Mar 2016  #23
Absolutely, Pol3! The big majority of Poles just want better material conditions and they are not concerned with KOD, TK, terrorism and consorts.
delphiandomine 86 | 17,376    
  24 Mar 2016  #24
a majority would porbably put cheap beer, vodka and cigarettes above the other options you listed and to hell with the TK, constitution, KOD and terrorist threats.

I wish I didn't agree with you on this, but it's pretty much true.

I'm pretty certain that had communism gone the way of China in Poland, the country would still be communist today.
OP Polonius3 1,002 | 12,500    
24 Mar 2016  #25
still be communist today

Thanks to the powerful Chruch and attached-to-the-soil peasantry Poland was never more than radish communist -- red on the outside. Today's China is not communist, its leaders prepetuate that charade but ordinary Chinamen are largely consumer minded.

Keep to the topic please
delphiandomine 86 | 17,376    
25 Mar 2016  #26
Interesting question Polonius - do you think most Poles would agree with Singaporean living conditions and their idea of democracy?
Dougpol1 27 | 2,288    
25 Mar 2016  #27
Dougpol here - not Polonius :) And sadly Delph - Poles love Singapore. It's the same as they love going to Cuba on holiday.

"Hey! We're better off than these suckers!"
cms 9 | 1,289    
  25 Mar 2016  #28
I think you are confusing a need for dignity with materialism.

I'm not sure lumpenproletariat is a fair term to use - but yes I am talking about people that have to set their alarm, work for a boss and use public transport, shop at Biedra or Lidl and have their holidays at the Polish coast.

Most people would be happy with an Opel or VW, with a job that gives them say 500-1000 zloty of disposable income once the bills are paid and generally to not have to struggle to feed, house and cloth their kids. I think about 20 million Poles are in this band at the moment.

I really disagree with the comment about cheap cigs and booze - both have reduced sharply in the last decade (as has churchgoing by the way)

Of course there is maybe 10-15% of the population that is getting more materialistic and want a BMW or a Merc, build themselves McMansions and a skiing trip every year, but that is not evil - just the way things are.

The problem for PiS is that they skilfully built a coalition of people that want Christian conservatism and people that want 500 zloty per kid as the basis for a bit of economic dignity. They now need to hold that together.
gumishu 11 | 4,902    
25 Mar 2016  #29
have their holidays at the Polish coast.

vacation on Polish coast is more expensive than vacation in Egypt or Tunisia - you probably mean vacation at home (in a garden if someone owns one)
Crow 147 | 7,398    
25 Mar 2016  #30
What i wish to Poland and to Poles is that they focus themselves to create Intermarium, together with friendly people and countries that have common interest. Then, with time, Confederation of Intermarium should become Kingdom of Intermarium. Sure, democratic Kingdom as a parliamentary monarchy.


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